Economists are more optimistic

[RandomOstrichNotFromAustraliaButFromMadagascar]

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[TAG]

Well the presentation is a lil bit made in propaganda style but the thread is real.
I dont know what UK and France are thinking...

[Erik]

What is it with nationalists calling others Nazi's?

And my answer is YES: Muslims have a place in todays Europe, but all those people making nationalist propaganda like those video's don't.
I mean let's face it: you had your chance in '40 - '45, but you lost fair and square, so now Europe belongs to the tolerant people.

[Time Commander Bob]

Eh?

"The accomplishment of the world without America and Israel is both possible and feasible"
Is it me, or has this phrase been horribly mis-interpreted and mis-used? How you can interpret this phrase to mean "I think that America and Israel should not exist" is beyond me.

I stopped short on the second video clip when it said "The goal of Islam is world domination." Clearly, the creator(s) of this video clip knows very little about Jihad.

These video clips are more like the Islamophobic's "The Eternal Muslim" to be honest.

[Chuckles]

As to the poll: yes... *whispers* Albania...

[Garbarsardar]

If you want to showcase the "work" of the ex-marxist and now right wing biggot Horowitz, I suggest you take it to stormfont or the KKK website.

Horowitz is the person who blames slavery on "'black Africans ... abetted by dark-skinned Arabs'"

If it was not disgusting it would be laughable.

For more info: http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php...Freedom_Center

[Shaun]

Horowitz is the person who blames slavery on "'black Africans ... abetted by dark-skinned Arabs'"

If it was not disgusting it would be laughable.

Now, I have done a bit of research on slavery, and, well, the native Africans were slighlty more to blame than ultra PC Europe and America likes to think, although, that said, without white merchants there would have been no market for the African kings to sell their own people to.

Oh, and to the OP, at least spell 'Muslim's' right

[Syron]

Horowitz is the person who blames slavery on "'black Africans ... abetted by dark-skinned Arabs'"

If it was not disgusting it would be laughable.

Erm, if it wasn't for the Black Africans and Arabs there wouldn't have been slaves to sell. The slave trade had been going on in africa for years. I think someone needs a history lesson! I wonder, do you support Europeans getting reparations from the Mahgreb states for what the Barbary pirates did?



Voted no but couldn't be arsed to watch the films. probably just a load of propaganda anyway.

[Alatar]

Yes they do!
100% there human beings and I am not going to denounce a entire religion because of the radicals, for example, I could show you videos of the kkk and nazi's showing how bad fundementalism can be, but noone calls for all christian to be sent "'back 'ome" to Jerusalem.

And as for all you people who voted no and didn't post, islamaphobic cowards.
BTW, + rep for Time Commander Bob and Erik.


The Archive Guardian, the UK and France and other european countries are treating Muslims like human beings and offering them aylsam, and imigration. Course some are terrorists, but not all, look at ireland no more terrorism after 30 years because the two sides talked together.

[Yorkshireman]

And as for all you people who voted no and didn't post, islamaphobic cowards.

There you go, I'm quite happy to tell you I voted no. If that makes me an "Islamaphobic coward" because I expressed an opinion contrary to yours on another meaningless internet poll, so be it.

The very reason there is no more terrorism in Ulster is precisely because the British government did'nt and would never give into the IRA and thats why they sat down at the table. The terrorists lost.

[LoZz]

What is it with nationalists calling others Nazi's?

And my answer is YES: Muslims have a place in todays Europe, but all those people making nationalist propaganda like those video's don't.
I mean let's face it: you had your chance in '40 - '45, but you lost fair and square, so now Europe belongs to the tolerant people.

damn right,

jesus guys its a just a relgious group, yes it has a extremist element but so what, their not alieans who will eat all the white children, many muslims live and working very sucesfully in europe today

[Zadig]

the islamists should not be allowed to enter western countries and the ones who do get in and plan attacks on the countries that often gave them asylum should be executed for treason considering that many of them have the passport of the country in which they are in.

This is not an attack on all muslims just the extremists

[PacSubCom]

Muslims in Europe have no power, no representation, and most importantly, no money. They are a small minority and are segregated against every day.

I'm not so sure they will take over.

[Alatar]

Muslims in Europe have no power, no representation, and most importantly, no money. They are a small minority and are segregated against every day.

I'm not so sure they will take over.

Sorry, but thats a generalisation to, and on the representative side, plain wrong, each muslim has as much representation as a white atheist european.

[boofhead]

Well all the quotes in those vids are real, and there are many more out there which expose the heart of the minority of muslims who are in fact death-cultists rather than people with any actual spiritual credibility. Palestinian TV plays cartoons for little kids which glorify "martyrs" (i.e. homicide bombers, i.e. murderers). Young people in these settings have no hope at all of becoming anything except racist, religious murderers.

But put that information together and what do you get? Action? A united defensive front from the West? Nope. You get nought but accusations of racism, xenophobia and the like, even though the information provided is completely factual.

I know many more vids which portray the death-cult in more lurid terms - but I would not post them here, on hallowed TWC turf, lest the place descend into a maggot-ridden cesspit of religious filth.

I suggest keeping this stuff where it belongs - somewhere else.

There are good muslims here whom I would suggest don't need to defend their peaceful religion against this perverted form of cult....yet again. They are probably sick to death of it.

A better place for this stuff to be discussed is http://www.news.faithfreedom.org/

Please keep my TWC a place of friendship and not of division.

[MasterAdnin]

Is it just me, or do people generalize to often?

Have muslims with their midle east culture and mentality any place in Europe?

The correct terminology would be:

Have fundamentalist muslims with their Pre-Islamic culture and mentality any place in Europe?

There you go, all set. If you asked me this, then the answer would be no. In order to live in a civilized society, one must be civilized. Fundamentalist Muslims are far from that. The most correct version of Islam practiced is Moderate Islam.

Salaam,
Adnan

[Tom Paine]

Our terms? There are also cross border Irish-Northern Irish bodies; "we" had to give things up, just as much as they did... think of the half-Catholic, half-Protestant police service. Compromises were made by both sides - Ulster may be British today, but in 100 years?

[RandomOstrichNotFromAustraliaButFromMadagascar]

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[MasterAdnin]

Actually not . . .

To be honest now . . . most of Muslim countries aren’t encouraging Muslim fanatics, yet you have some form of dictator to be able to control the fanatical and extremist tendencies in which Islam is degenerating easily. The hardcore Pakistan or Iran are the first examples of the violent tendencies.

Turkey maybe the best one of "controled" democracy.

Yet Saudi Arabia stopped a very big terrorist attack on her ground.

On the other hand in Europe we do very little against Muslim fanatics from being too liberal and democrat.

Some Muslim woman from Turkey said that many of the Turkish groups that are in Germany will be forbidden in Turkey.

And so here we are facing a choice:

1} To give up much from our freedom for what we have fought so much in past and we paid with so much blood. To be able to accommodate and control a Muslim minority.

OR:

2} To stop Muslims coming in Europe and send back home the ones that are here and not integrating and adapting to us = all of them as I hardly saw any of them actually integrating.

We Europeans had a very wrong idea called "all people are the same" and yet truth it is that people are not all the same and you had big differences between cultures. Most of European countries fit well together as have a very similar culture . . . and democracy could work well for our culture.

After that they are distant and more distant cultures and mentalities which have nothing in common to us, some are just not integrating here like Chinese or Indian in the Europe yet mostly they are inoffensive but also then it is the middle east culture and mentality which not only don't fit here but is also dangerous.

Each culture should have her own political system of governance what it is fit for her.
What I tell is only: "You Muslims live at your home however you please and let me live at my home how I please!"

Now nobody could sell me the crap that USA is doing lot of bad things in Middle East to Muslims . . . if it is so then they should go in USA and not overwhelm Europe.

In the last decades we had went to a new kind of extreme: extreme liberalism

The extreme liberalism = when people want than all others will think in the same way and be alike and have the same liberal ideals (forcing democracy in countries where it could never work)

And that new extreme ends against the very idea of democracy and freedom and liberalism.

It is not funny?

Could it not be soo that all extremes are horibly wrong and one should only be moderate in all aspects: social, national as well as liberal?

........ WAIT, YOU'RE SERIOUS!!!!

When did Muslims start to do so bad in Europe? Please tell me when Muslims caused trouble previous to the Danish cartoons or 9/11. I believe that is pretty self explanatory.

Islam itself is about equality, where as most European countries are where they are today based upon slavery and imperialism. They went out, conquered and oppressed people so that they could benefit themselves, and are now feeling the repercussions of their own stupidity.

Have you seen the situation in Africa? How was this caused? Due to European imperialism at it's worst. They divided up Africa without the consent of the people, not only that, they grouped together warring tribes, and separated large tribes. Now, there are many civil wars, disease, famine, etc all taking place in Africa due to the greed of Europeans.

India and Pakistan, while getting better, are still much worse off than European countries. Why? The British forcing them to grow cash crops. This made their economies dependent solely upon certain crops which, if a certain amount is not grown, could devastate the economy.

There is much more I could say, but I'll keep it short and sweet and remind you many of the problems in todays world originated from European Imperialism.

Oh yea, I forgot to say, only about 20% of Muslims are Arabs. If you don't know what this means, then let me explain. Arabs come from the Middle East. Judging from what you say, it seems as though you feel Middle Eastern culture is inferior. After stating this, please tell me about the other 80% of Muslim's culture.

Oh yea, another thing. There is a Mosque that I have gone to numerous times. Basically, the make up of the community are Caucasian Muslims, and it is a large Muslim community. It is rather fun to go there and discuss topics with them. I enjoy it.

Salaam bro,
Adnan


[EDIT]

I just saw the Jihad video and I started cracking up. I'm sorry man. It's just too ridiculous. If I was older, I'd actually like to meet you and explain Islam and what it is all about, but unfortunately I can, and unfortunately, I doubt you'd want to learn from a Muslim instead of some Southern guy who read about Islam from Taliban sites .

[boofhead]

When did Muslims start to do so bad in Europe? Please tell me when Muslims caused trouble previous to the Danish cartoons or 9/11.

The Balkans, for centuries. Also the attempted murder of Pope John Paul II, and many others.....

Islam itself is about equality

However Islamic equality basically sucks when it comes to women or dhimmi.

...where they are today based upon slavery and imperialism. They went out, conquered and oppressed people so that they could benefit themselves.

Can't think of a better description of the historical expansion of Islam.