pro's and cons of 0 turn recruitment

**Atillium** · April 30, 2007, 08:28 AM

First of all: my compliments for an excellent mod! I played MTW2 lately, this mod brought me back to RTW. I prefer the classical over the medieval age, and the graphics of RS TW are top notch!

One issue I run into with this mod is the 0 turn recruitment of units. I'm actually not sure if I love it or hate it...
Now it's easy enough to change the recruitment from 0 to 1 for myself, however I'm wondering what the effect on the balance of the game will be.

The 0 turn recruitment means it's very easy to (re-)build an army. For me that takes part of the fun out of the game; it doesn't really matter if you loose a complete legion in a battle, you can build a new one in one or two turns. Gives me a feeling that armies are 'cheap'. When you can only build one unit a turn I'm usually a lot more carefull with what I do.

Second, the AI keeps spamming full-stack armies. For starters that means that their population growth slows down considderably. Also, it's nice if defeating a large enemy army really makes a difference, which is not really the case when they have another stack or two ready next turn.

Can anybody tell me what would be the effect on the balance of RS TW if I change all unit recruitment times to 1?

**cherryfunk** · April 30, 2007, 08:38 AM

There's a 1-turn recruitment version, look in the IMPORTANT_STUFF folder and swap out those files and you'll have 1-turn recruitment, that's how I play.

**century x** · April 30, 2007, 09:47 AM

I prefer to have the 0 turn.

I love to see hordes of gauls,germans,greeks, all of those. It makes it a real challenge. Cause in one turn u can easily be over run with 5 full stacks.

If u change it to 1 turn...Less battles, less armies in some cases...and i believe a slower pace in conquest

**Atillium** · April 30, 2007, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by cherryfunk

There's a 1-turn recruitment version, look in the IMPORTANT_STUFF folder and swap out those files and you'll have 1-turn recruitment, that's how I play.

Thanks, hadn't noticed!

@ DVK901; good to hear RS will be balanced out for 1-turn recruitment also!
Quess I'm more a RTR than a SPQR kinda guy. I quit the SPQR campaign rather quickly; just too many battles to fight. I want to finish a campaign, but I don't have the time to fight 2, 3 or 4 major battles every turn.

I think MTW2 hit the mark with their recruitment system: the larger the town or fortress, the more units one can recruit in one turn, however unlike in RTW it's not possible to pump out complete stacks every turn.

btw, is there anything you can do to make the AI recruit more diverse stacks? The Gauls keep comming with stacks made up of light spearman and some light cavalry; the Macedonians field armies made up from light cavalry. I'd love to encounter some more diverse armies during the campaign!

**tone** · May 03, 2007, 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Atillium

btw, is there anything you can do to make the AI recruit more diverse stacks? The Gauls keep comming with stacks made up of light spearman and some light cavalry; the Macedonians field armies made up from light cavalry. I'd love to encounter some more diverse armies during the campaign!

This is something we've been working hard on to try and improve.

**dvk901** · April 30, 2007, 01:16 PM

This mod was originally designed to be a lot like SPQR and\or BBW8....because I prefer '0' turn recruitment, and it's more realistic. However, the resulting clamor for '1' turn recruitment options, led by CherryFunk and one other person he found in the street

caused me to add the '1' turn recruitment into the mod as an option.....but it wasn't really meant to be played that way.

Soooo, now, having had immense time to work on the economy of this Mod, you will find simply TONS of changes in how it plays. First of all, there will be two icons put on you desktop that will allow you to play either one turn or zero. But more importantly, the economy and population growth are now much better matched to the two styles of play. '0' turn will have a more 'robust' economy and more population growth, and '1' turn a tighter economy with less population growth. So the Mod is better tuned to the way you'd like to play.
Also, what I've tried to do is to create a '0' turn scheme that effecticely PLAYS like a '1' turn game. I said the economy for the '0' turn is more 'robust', and that's true. But it is by no means the kind of economy that will get you millions of denarii to spend on anything you wish. You will have 'enough' to conduct a campaign, but you will have to spend it wisely, and where it will do you the most good.

One thing I want to do with Roma Surrectum, more than anything (play-wise), is create a situation where you need to think about what you're doing. RTW could get pretty mindless with loads of money and nothing to stop you, but RS will ideally be a Mod that tries to mimic reality as much as possible. You won't be able to just build your best troops wherever you please, and have all the denarii in the world to do it with. This wasn't realistic, so the closer I come to that goal, the better I will feel.

One among many changes in the upcoming Patch10 concerns the economy. Each faction now makes most of it's money from it's own 'Home' regions. Almost all bonuses will only apply in those areas, and certain other tightly controlled ones. So if you play Rome, Italy and Sicily will make you the bulk of your money, whilst a region outside that 'Home' territory will make you a little, but not much. If you're Macedon, or Gaul, or Germans...again, you will have 'Home' territories that will fuel your economy and war efforts, but not a lot outside them. The result is a far better 'controlled' economy, where decently priced units and high building costs cause you to think hard.."Do I want to build that here?" Or, "Do I really need a barracks in that remote region where nothing ever happens?"

**cherryfunk** · April 30, 2007, 01:51 PM

One thing I want to do with Roma Surrectum, more than anything (play-wise), is create a situation where you need to think about what you're doing.

The latest version of RS (still in beta-testing) actually feels to me a bit like a cross between DarthMod and EB, as weird as that sounds. You have the overall speed and the big map of DarthMod, but the economy and strategic choices feel more like EB -- you have to pick your fights and plan ahead. Losing a full stack is a major disaster. But where EB feels too cramped and slow for my tastes, RS keeps things wide-open and moving quickly -- you can play 20 turns in the time it might take you to play 5 EB turns. So in my opinion RS is slowly but surely turning into the best RTW gaming experience I've had yet.

**Spartan_Shame** · May 01, 2007, 12:32 AM

I have found myself playing 1 turn once more. Basically I was getting tired of facing stack after stack. This just bores me. I prefer a tactical approach to conquer an enemy. Not a brute force-kill everything-oh no all my armies are screwed.

**Spartan 666** · May 03, 2007, 09:56 AM

isn t there a way to make it work like in m2tw? that means a certain building that allows you to recruit 2,3,4,5 units per turn depending by the level of that building...i think that would be the best option! if you have to build a unit in 1 turn it takes you ages to form a legion,but if it takes 0 turns to build half a legion...great empires are unbeatable as they have unlimited human resources and they can recruit 50 full armies in one turn!

**cherryfunk** · May 03, 2007, 11:10 AM

isn t there a way to make it work like in m2tw? that means a certain building that allows you to recruit 2,3,4,5 units per turn depending by the level of that building...i think that would be the best option!

This is a great idea, but I don't think it's possible with the RTW engine. You could, I think, create different buildings which can recruit different 'versions' of the same unit, i.e. a 0-turn Principes vs. a 1-turn Principes -- but you're still stuck with either 0 or 1 turn, and if it's 0, then there's no limit to how many you can produce. I don't see how it would be possible to limit the overall number of units recruitable in a given turn.