Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: Sher Khan's suggestions

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    Default Sher Khan's suggestions

    So the Broken Crescent project seems to be well underway. Lots of great skins and research has already been done. This leaves me with the question of just what can I do now to help? Meh, I'll start with just a few suggestions. I hope I don't mention things already discussed in length, so please feel free to comment or add in with anything that may help.

    I'd like to discuss in length the possibilities of the Broken Crescent campaign. As we know, Medieval II is built around the workings of Europe and the Near East, but with heavy emphasis and detailed work on the Western reaches of the map. Feudal Europe was a very different place than the Muslim world, and I think this demands a complete overhaul of the campaign buildings and bonuses they give, considering the differences in culture and geography.


    At this time, the Middle East was, and still is, a very arid region with vast stretches of desert. Therefore, except for coastal regions, populations were centered around the great river systems of the area, namely the Tigris, Euphrates, and Nile.

    There are three main sources of income: farming, trade, and taxation. Farming is the simplest to discuss - all regions in proximity to fresh water have great farming potential, especially compared to arid regions of the area.

    Trade, however, can be discussed in length because of it's importance to the Muslim Middle East.

    - I propose having a chain of settlements extending from Syria to the edge of China that will have a 'Silk Road' trade bonus. This will make settlements that otherwise would be landlocked become incredibly important should they lie in the middle of this important overland trade route. This trading network will certainly give nations like Persia a huge economic boost (realistic I'm sure) since they straddle many of these territories. And, the more settlements held along the Silk Road, the greater the wealth acquired - much like the trade made from owning a string of port cities in Vanilla M2TW. This will not only balance the campaign (huge land mass without a giant Mediterranean for trade) but allow players to amass huge trade incomes without having to own port cities.

    - Some settlements have famous river systems, such as Baghdad and Cairo. I suggest these settlements be given some form of trade bonus from river trade similar to sea trade (much of the economy of Iraq, for example, traveled up and down the two rivers, between Mosul and Baghdad). This will make settlements with rivers produce cash flow from its rivers other than as an indirect source of farming income. It will also make these cities of even greater importance for economic reasons, and will balance out against the Silk Road cities to the East and North.

    - Caravansararies buildable in cities as well as castles. These buildings should of course provide possible recruitment of bedouin tribal warriors, but it should also provide a tax bonus to any city with it. Travel in the region was almost entirely by camel caravan, and taxes on incoming and resting caravan camels provided an excellent source of tax income for cities like Baghdad and Cairo. Perhaps there could be a way to enable some cities, regions, or perhaps some factions only to build larger caravan stops that could have greater tax bonuses as long as they lie on pilgrimage routes. Arabian income, and honestly everywhere, taxed pilgrim roads, and because of the Hajj, this proved lucrative for the local rulers. They not only provided stables for camels, but inns and amenaties for caravan travelers.

    - There should be little reason for paved roads to provide anything but a movement bonus. Trade at this time was done purely by pack animal and not wheeled carts. Thus the paved road neither aided nor promoted trade and Islamic rulers had little reason to build or maintain them. The Latin kingdoms of course would rely on paved roads, so it seems proper to leave them with trade bonuses from roads.

    - The ribaat should make an appearance as a buildable structure in castle regions. They should be described as border forts and possibly give piety or mysticist bonuses to Imams (since we can't divide between Sufi, Sunni, and Shi'a). At the same time, these forts should enable the recruitment of ghazi warriors.

    - High level mosques should provide some form of bonus to law or some other form of public obedience. Islamic rulers solidified their authority by having their names read during Friday prayers, so I'm certain this could be a welcome addition to the game mechanic and a new incentive to build mosques, even in regions with 100% religion. Prayer was very important at this time, and this should be reflected with how much sway the mosques and gatherings had over public order.

    - We should include the madrassa, an academy line of buildings that should give piety bonuses to imams recruited in the city, but also offer good educational traits to governors in the city, including knowledge of math, science, and engineering (useful for war perhaps?).


    I'll be using this thread to post more and edit some ideas as I develop them and as I find time to pin them down.

  2. #2
    Indefinitely Banned
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Calgary, Canada
    Posts
    13,967

    Default Re: Sher Khan's suggestions

    Hey what's up Sher Khan! Nice to see you here. I'm gonna answer your idea bit by bit over the next while. And you've got some gems in there for sure.

    - The ribaat should make an appearance as a buildable structure in castle regions. They should be described as border forts and possibly give piety or mysticist bonuses to Imams (since we can't divide between Sufi, Sunni, and Shi'a). At the same time, these forts should enable the recruitment of ghazi warriors.
    This gave me an awsome idea. Mosques could recruit ghazi warriors perhaps? This seems like a good option for the Ghorids who will be launching jihads into india and will have a high level ghazi warrior unit.

    And the idea about sufis and other mystical elements is also a great idea. That was discussed by CelticPagan too.

  3. #3
    The Mongol's Avatar Primicerius
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,863

    Default Re: Sher Khan's suggestions

    I'd love to see AlphaDelta do a Ghazi, they are horrid in vanilla.

    Nice ideas Sher Khan, I pretty much agree on all of it.

  4. #4
    Sinan's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Leading the formation!
    Posts
    1,012

    Default Re: Sher Khan's suggestions

    Quote Originally Posted by mirage41 View Post
    Hey what's up Sher Khan! Nice to see you here. I'm gonna answer your idea bit by bit over the next while. And you've got some gems in there for sure.



    This gave me an awsome idea. Mosques could recruit ghazi warriors perhaps? This seems like a good option for the Ghorids who will be launching jihads into india and will have a high level ghazi warrior unit.

    And the idea about sufis and other mystical elements is also a great idea. That was discussed by CelticPagan too.
    How about making them recruitable from ribats instead ? Not sure if you already have that building in the mod, but that would make an interesting addition.
    Add me on Steam if you are playing SHOGUN 2 multiplayer!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Sher Khan's suggestions

    wecome here to khan

    development of trade that is the main point; u can work about this issues

    it must be very cool.

    it is alweys very good if u are keeping ur attantion out of war

    yes

    i know the games are concerned mostly about war but many people like

    the peace or idea of peace and this comes as alweys (not alweys but

    anyway) from trade and staff like this so improvement of trade that must be


    very

    big job

    respect.
    Through your intercession I hope to see the light of Thy son and the light of everlasting ages !

  6. #6

    Default Re: Sher Khan's suggestions

    mirage, I don't think ghazis were necessarily recruited from the mosques, but that if they wanted to sign up for duty, they would make for the ribaat towns and forts. So I think just having them recruitable from a 'ribaat' building in a castle makes for a better use of these ghazis. It'll also give players another reason to have border castles to serve as effective raiding spots - adding to historical accuracy.

    Anyway, more thoughts.


    - Black Mameluks. Units that aren't necessarily made up of Africans, but represent lesser mameluks of lower ranking amirs. They should prove a good medium cavalry unit but no where near as impressive as royal mameluks.

    - Renegade Templar/Hospitaller/Teutonic Mercenary Knights. Lesser charge than their counterparts because of their lack of unity, but just as effective in melee and only slightly less morale (having left the order, they had no where else to turn to).

    - Adib Ghulam Infantry - Black African Heavy Infantry recruitable by Egypt, should only be an early era unit as they fell out of usage with Saladin as he consolidated his empire. Perhaps have Cairo start with one or two units of these soldiers.

    - A bigger impact - and possibly easier to get offer - from the Horsebreeders Guild, along with new traits and ancillaries centering around breeding horses of all kinds. Could add to command with cavalry stats at least, and maybe a slight increase to public order (holding races personally). I'm sure a Sultan's race track would trigger this easily.

    - There should be a decrease to the religious unrest in cities. In vanilla, having just 5% Christianity in a Muslim territory will cause cities to go crazy with rioting, and obviously there was a great many minorities in Muslim lands, even with heavy taxing as these rulers were wanton to do.

    - Egypt should be able to recruit Armenian or Coptic militia who function like Urban militia of the Moors. Good morale.

    - Is there a way to give certain units the ability to hide in the desert much like they do in grass? Honestly, this game is going have players spam heavy cav just as much as normal vanilla M2TW if light cavalry don't get some sort of proper use or advantage other than going horse archer. I propose allowing Beduoin cavalry forces the ability to hide in desert sand dunes. They were master ambushers in the desert sands, and the game doesn't allow for any sort of ambush other than tall grass or forest ambushcades. Currently, you could have beduoin cavalry units hiding behind a sand dune and be historically invisible to the enemy, but the AI knows they're there just fine. Cuts their effectiveness (that of skirmishing surprise troops) and just makes players rely on heavier units. Historically, Arab merc horsemen played a substantial role in battles, and mostly as scouts and ambushers.

    - Middle Eastern warfare was greatly professional in the early Middle Ages. There should be ancillaries and traits that give bonuses to troop morale and unit movement points. These would include tribal captains for controlling units of different races or religions and quartermasters who properly ration the supplies and baggage train.

    - A market overseer (? on proper name or title) that adds to public order and perhaps trade. Manages the proper functioning of the marketplace and collects taxes from the Christian, Hindu, and Jewish merchants, adding to a tax bonus. They add to the public order in that they maintain law and proper conduct in the streets of the marketplace. Not even nobility is safe from their prosecution and authority.




    That's all for now. Also, mirage, I'm sure you're going to need short blurb descriptions of the units, buildings, and faction overviews like the ones in vanilla, right? If you need, I could go over a list of needed items later in the mod's development and churn out short information texts on each one, hopefully making them as interesting (and sometimes as funny) to read as the vanilla ones.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Sher Khan's suggestions

    Hey, welcome Sher Khan. Glad to have you and your ideas here
    Former Historian & Dev Member for Broken Crescent Mod
    Dual-Major BA in Medieval History / Political Science, Adelphi University Aug. 1989
    Member of the World History Association
    Member of the Medieval Academy of America
    Member of the Richard III Society
    Member of the Society for the Study of the Crusades and Latin East
    If you like my post, please +Rep...if you dislike my post, please +REP me twice

  8. #8
    Beauchamp's Avatar Semisalis
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Minneapolis
    Posts
    471

    Default Re: Sher Khan's suggestions

    Im all for more Sudanese/Nubian soldiers in the Egyptian army, especially palace guards. Im reading Ibn Munqidh's memoirs and he mentions that most of the Caliphal guards in Cairo were Nubian.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Sher Khan's suggestions

    Hmm..I'll have to get my hands on that book. Right now I've got my nose buried in Francesco Gabrieli's Arab Historians of the Crusades, and Amin Maalouf's The Crusades Through Arab Eyes, with some cross checking in James Reston, Jr.'s Wariors of God: Richard the Third and Saladin in the Third Crusade.

    BTW, can anyone point out a good website, book, or system where an English speaker can learn to read Arabic at his own (slow) pace?
    Former Historian & Dev Member for Broken Crescent Mod
    Dual-Major BA in Medieval History / Political Science, Adelphi University Aug. 1989
    Member of the World History Association
    Member of the Medieval Academy of America
    Member of the Richard III Society
    Member of the Society for the Study of the Crusades and Latin East
    If you like my post, please +Rep...if you dislike my post, please +REP me twice

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •