One aspect that I would like to work on (maybe not for ver. 1, but definitely for updates) is Religions, especially working them in for traits and ancillaries. I am going to list below what I have been researching, and ask for further input from my fellow teammates and the fans of this mod.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Christianity: Latin (Catholics) Orthodox (Various, but keeping it simple for sake of scripting) Christian Heresy
Islam: Sunni Shi'ite (can be considered heretical trait due to Sunni dominance during this time period) Sufism (Mystic tradition) Ishmai'ilism/Hashashim (heretical cult who may have used hashish. Their mountain stronghold of Alamut was located high in the Elburz Mountains of Persia. Their inclusion would allow for the use of the Hashashim unit (only for Rebels). Historically, they were a power since the later part of the 8th century after breaking away from the Shi'ia who supported Musa as the 7th Imam, while they supported his brother Ishmail. They began their attacks against the Abbasid Caliphs in Baghdad. It was an Ishmai'il leader, Ubaydulla, that overthrew the Aghlabids in Kairouan, and within 60 years set up the Fatimid government in Egypt. They would rule till Saladin took control of Egypt. They twice tried to assassinate him. They were successful at killing other political leaders, including Caliphs in Baghdad, various leaders of the Seljuks, at least one Fatimid ruler they disliked and also at least one Western general during the Crusades.
Indian: Vedic Hinduism Dravic Pre-Vedic Shivaism (Tamils) (Likely treated as Heretics) Buddhism (Likely treated as Heretics)
Mongol: Pagan (likely Animism) (Likely treated as Heretics after the conversion to Islam) Taoism (Likely treated as Heretics after the conversion to Islam) Buddhism (Likely treated as Heretics after the conversion to Islam) Islam (Sunni)
Re: the Indian religions, indian_boy, could you give me your take on this subject? My knowledge on the Dravic religion is more of an ancient one, dating up to the Aryan invasion of the Indus River Valley, so I'm not very well versed in the Medieval version. Thanks!
Do you mean having separate religions like these? Or like incorporating these concepts into traits and ancs? If that latter, then thats definitely a super idea. If you mean the former then well, that might be impossible - I have yet to see any coding pertaining to how religions behave - so I have no idea how to do it.
Do you mean having separate religions like these? Or like incorporating these concepts into traits and ancs? If that latter, then thats definitely a super idea. If you mean the former then well, that might be impossible - I have yet to see any coding pertaining to how religions behave - so I have no idea how to do it.
While the former would be cool, I also have no idea how to do it, much less even if it could be done. So, yes it is the latter. Giving traits and/or ancillaries which will lead to family members and generals revolting and becoming both heretics and rebels. This will allow for the possible use of priests/imams as a sort of assassin as well. An Islamic general who becomes a Shi'ia or an Ishmai'il could be denounced in much the way Iquisitors remove Catholic family/generals for a lack of faith. Priests and Imams who sucessfully do this would gain Inquisitor traits (just would need to set the triggers).
As to my lack of time lately, I am sorry. The wife had surgery, and the past week or so has been a lot of post-surgical follow-ups. Good news is no cancer was found . Now just to pay for it and all the books I've been ordering . Actually, our insurance rocks, so the out-of-pocket isn't all that bad. However, I should have more time in the coming weks to devote to this mod, and am looking forward to my scripting lessons .
Besides, I need to get my head out of the history books. It's like when I was still in college. Then again, since I am disabled, maybe I'll take the time to start taking some classes and finally get that Masters I should have gotten years ago. Your mod has inspired me I guess. Hmmm...maybe I should get you to foot the bill
Mirage, had an idea, but not sure it is doable - instead of a Theologians Guild, can we have seperate guilds for each of the major religions represented in this Mod? Seminaries for Christian factions, Madasas (sp?) for the Islamic, and some kind of temple/guru-style place for the Hindus? (Sorry indian_boy, just not sure off hand what they would be called )
sorry i cant quite research on the topic [im on the cybercafe comp, dont have much time left] but Vedic hinduism is [afaik] the most accepted type of hinduisim [it is the Vedic religion which has the caste system etc. etc.].
im unaware of "Dravic Pre-Vedic Shivaism " but ur source mentions "(Tamils)" and i know that the Tamils are from further south than where "we" are situated with this mod. Buddhists... hmm... afaik, there were no real problems between hindus and other religions [except islam and later christianity (out of this time-period)].
I had earlier suggested that the Tantarics be the "heretics" in indian subcontinent. They are the black-magic practicers and have never been 'accepted' as such. just a thought.
cheers
EDIT: it would be temples [the building]. From shrines to gigantic temples
sorry i cant quite research on the topic [im on the cybercafe comp, dont have much time left] but Vedic hinduism is [afaik] the most accepted type of hinduisim [it is the Vedic religion which has the caste system etc. etc.].
im unaware of "Dravic Pre-Vedic Shivaism " but ur source mentions "(Tamils)" and i know that the Tamils are from further south than where "we" are situated with this mod.
Tamils are the current name given to the Dravidian peoples, who are believed to have once lived in the Indus River Valley (IRV) and who build the cities there, like Mohenjo-daro. There's a lot of devision between historians as to who lived there when, but I fall into the camp who believes it was the Dravidians, and when the aryans invaded through the Khyber Pass from the Steepes, the Dravidians moved further south into the sub-continent.
What is not in dispute is that they worshiped Shiva and his consort Shakti, and that when the Aryan Vedics arrieved, they incorporated Shiva and Shakti into the new Hindu religion, keeping Shiva as a Major God, but reducing Shakti first to a minor Goddess, and then even to just a part of Shiva. As I understand it, those who clung to the old version of Shiva where branded heretics, and outcasts, and is one of the reasons for the tension between the Tamils and Hindus today in southern India and on Sri Lanka.
Of course, reading about it isn't the same as living there, so I'll bow to any greater wisdon and knowledge you have on this subject indian_boy
P.S. I was looking for names of religious schools. Are you saying a Temple would serve as both a religious center and as a training school for priests? or are their seperate places with a different name for priest training, like a seminary for Christian priests while a church is a worship place? I think I said that right, but now it looks confusing. Oh well, I'm sure you'll get what I'm asking
no greater wisdom on the topic of 'religions' over here. i'd suppose that ur right, cuz it all makes sense with what happens these days, and parts of indian history.
as for 'teaching grounds'. well, a far as i know [why i didn't just write AFAIK i dont know]... well, my mum and i know: the system in hinduism is different. only a brahman can give out religious instructions, and preach, and look after the religious rites. So, u don't just 'learn to be a priest.' If ur a brahman, u learn from ur dad, and ur son will learn from u. But if ur the types that has given up all worldly goods in pursuit of religious and spiritual contentment, then u go to live in what's called an Ashram. At the Ashram, u learn what u have to, to become a 'messenger of gods.' [supposedly]. So if ur looking for a 'priest training ground' then Ashram would be ur best bet?
but then again, Ashrams themselves have nothing to do with places of worship... temples and ashrams would have to be 2 buildings [if we want accuracy].
hope this helps!
but then again, Ashrams themselves have nothing to do with places of worship... temples and ashrams would have to be 2 buildings [if we want accuracy].
hope this helps!
Sufism is not an own branch of Islam.
Sufism is a part of Sunni-Islam.
The believe, that Sufism is not within the Sunni-Islam is quite new. It first camed in 17th Century.
So for this Mod, just make Sunni and Shia, as Sufism is nothing else as Sunni Islam
edit:
Seminaries for Christian factions, Madasas (sp?) for the Islamic, and some kind of temple/guru-style place for the Hindus?
Its called Madrasah.
The first two 'a' are spoken like in Apple. The third 'a' is like... english 'u' in unlike.
It is spoken in a flow.
That should be the classical Arab/Egypt word.
In Turkish, its more like Medresse.
Rolling, strong 'r'. The 'ss' realy, realy sharp.
Not so much flow like the arabic. More like Med-resse.
Phew. Its so hard to discribe turkish way of speaking
Maybe one of our turkish users could do better.
Last edited by calamiga; May 12, 2007 at 09:43 AM.
Hey, a few extra heretics types for the indian faction:
At this point in History, there were several schools of Hindu thought. Out of that, one was atheistic in thought. The philosophy was called Lokayata.
So, i think a perfect Heretic would be a denouncer of religion, or a Lokayatist.
Buddhists would definately be Heretics at this time as well. Though buddhists held much power long before this time period, during the medieval age, they certainly were not in the mainstream.
Religions - Factions and Rebels/Heretics
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Originally Posted by mirage41
. Now just to pay for it and all the books I've been ordering 
. Actually, our insurance rocks, so the out-of-pocket isn't all that bad. However, I should have more time in the coming weks to devote to this mod, and am looking forward to my scripting lessons 
. 
