missles way overpowered

[facism(rome)totalwar]

does anyone else think the missles in the game do way too unrealisticaly powerful? A unit of peltfasts for example can beat any infantry in melee combat just by standing in front of them and shooting them point blank.

if you look closely, the dead bodies are spartan hoplites
[IMG][/IMG]
another thing, didn't the roman legionary infantry only have 2 pila?

[Leximus Meridius]

well... i dont know, maybe i'm weird but it seems more realistic to me to have missle weapons deadly... i mean if you're hit with an arrow or javelin or pila in the face or pretty much anywhere else, you're down for the count...or a useless warrior. it would be fine for me if all missle weapons were one hit kills...unless of course it hit the shield or something

[navi491]

I see no problem at all with it, as they are throwing javalins, which are like mini-spears which can of course go through your shield, and regular armor and pretty much kill or hurt badly anyone it hits.

They work fine, have good range, and do the right amount of damage.

If you really want to place a limit on them so they arent so powerful, try lowering the amount of AMMO they have, this way it decreases the amount of casualties they can cause, since they have less javalins to throw.

[lt1956]

Javelins are what you use for HEAVIES, you think Spartans are any more bullet proof than Legionaries? When fighting Hand to hand yes, but Missiles care about no Rank or Strength. lol

Basically you have to use TACTICS, Using all javelinmen will not work out in the campaign and will cost you later. Javelins have 7-8 spears and then out, Legionaries 2 and Elephants and cavalry a bit more, But all are tailored to each type.

Archers can be blocked pretty good by Heavies so thats where Javelins come in. They should do damage in Ancient times they were VERY dangerous, plus NOT just anyone can pick one up and throw it right. It took practice.

[Konig]

i think its fine. its part of that whole Rock paper scissors combo, which is that basis for any strategy game.

[The Pope]

Can they shoot while in melee combat? If so, I'd say that's far more likely to be the problem than doing too much damage.

[facism(rome)totalwar]

I'll take your word for it about the effectiveness of the javelin, but what bothers me is their ability the literaly kill half the enemy army before the heavy infantry engage, to me thats whats unrealistic. Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't javelins used to disrupt enemy formations rather than to be the bulwark of the army; I'm finding javelin tactics more important than infantry tactics in the battles.

What I was trying to show with the picture was the peltfasts shooting in melee combat and winning.

btw I have to say, this is the best rtw mod I've played so I really shouldn't be complaining about anything so constructive criticism I guess.

[lt1956]

But the Player and AI usually doesnt have more more than 2-4 javelins, Also when an army is charging they will not get all their salvos off before the infantry hit them, once engaged they should stop firing as they do in ALL RTW mods and RTW itself.

Yes if you let them stand their then Pelt them they will do damage that is why the form testudo or charged them fast! Lots of historical evidence that when Roman Fought Roman the Pila and Javelins are what killed the most, 2 heavily armed men with Shields are hard to kill, until one RUNS or Gets so tired he gives up.

You will have to get use to SPQR gameplay, Once you use the Proper tactics you will see everything balances out. This mod was NOT made in a Day and therefore has alot of feedback to make it what it is today. Taking one on one unit and saying something is wrong doesnt work in SPQR.

Try this,. Make 2 Armies,

Roman. Leave as Raw recruits. No bonuses.

1 general, 2 Roman Cavalry, 1 First Cohort Imperial, 9 Cohorts Imperial, 2 Javelinmen, 2 Archers, 3 auxilia SPear Infantry.

Germans give men all Silver CHevron Experience

1 General, 3 cavalry, 2 Javelinmen, 1 archer, 2 Naked Fanatics, 1 Berzerkers, 4 Chosen Axemen, 6 Axemen


Test this out and then let me know if you think Javelins or too powerful? Remember in SPQR the AI produces Armies in ALOT different Way than the Vanilla RTW

[facism(rome)totalwar]

I played as both the armies you choose on vh. I still think the javelins are a tad bit overpowered.

as the germans, javelinmen come in with the most kills
[IMG][/IMG]
and as the romans they are second but keep in mind first cohort also shoots more powerful javelins
[IMG][/IMG]
my last piece is the amount of enemy I can kill before the heavy infantry engage, a fourth of the enemy army is gone before the battle even starts.
[IMG][/IMG]
just my thoughts

[-|I_L|-Empire]

As far as I know and this is purely just my knowledge, Roman armies has the Pila to throw at the enemy before a charge, their job was to enter the enemy warrior's shield, and bend so it could be taken out and thrown back also rendering the warrior's shield useless. That was the idea, but they also killed!

Now, javelins I have no problem with as I have not seen more than two or three units of them being used by the enemy and so I do likewise, along with one or two archer or slinger units.

Javelins I use to flank an enemy army, while it is in combat with my Infantry, and hit them from the back to maximize the effectiveness of my missiles.

I found Slingers to be more powerful once, I was defending Messena once, well the second time as Hannibal had tried and failed, my units were the starting ones plus random Hastati and Town watch units.
I lost the stockade walls and pulled back to the plaza where I managed to hold out for a damn long time, killed thousands of Carthaginians there.

My infantry were slowly pushed back, but exposing the enemy flanks, my two slingers took out about 4 enemy units, then they tried moving units slowly against my slingers, as soon as they got close they were hit! lol

Alas eventually my men were killed by the remaining elephants!


I just think Javelins are fine, what makes the Imperial Roman Army so succesfull!

[Samba]

hm

[iaantinmeeh]

Can they shoot while in melee combat? If so, I'd say that's far more likely to be the problem than doing too much damage.

It is possible if your missle troops is on GUARD MODE and skirmish mode off.

Another requirement is that the enemy is the one who attacked and you did not give the order to attack back.

Additionally, fire at will is on.

If my light auxillia were flanked, and usually keep have them stand their ground. Since the enemy only attacked a small portion of my light troops, only a few of my troops are in melee. Example my light auxillia 3 men deep was attacked on the right. Maybe around 12-15 men are actually in hand to hand. Yhe bulk of the men in the unit can fire javs.

It also works with archers. Sometimes wavering infantry men will attack my archers. I just keep them in guard mode and flaming arrows. Those archers not in contact with the enemy can shoot.

[Ultra123]

I dont think they are overpowered at all, slingers shooting a unit from the front unless they are light does minimal damage, javs do good damage but limited ammo and limited use after throwing the javs. Unless you want missiles to do literally no damage? as Lt said, spartans or not missiles dont discriminate, the spartans wreck in melee thats what they do best but a jav doesnt care it only is interested in your armour and shield.

[Octavius-Augustus]

I know it's an old thread, discussion, and I'm only dowloading SPQR mod to play again after many, many years, but I have to say the OP's original complaint is initself flawed. Sure, it's 2020 but it was known way before that VH battle difficulty is (and even Hard) is a bit unrealistic. VH especially gives such severe damage bonuses to enemy AI units that a mere fresh recruit of javelins/archers can slaughter heavily armored/upgraded units in a matter of seconds. Me personally, I never play VH battles and play H battles only when playing as an overpowered faction (or the mod was specifically designed to be played at say, Hard). I just can't stand a skirmisher unit slugging it off on an even foot with legionaries or some other similar situation VH battles often produce due to morale/damage and what ever else bonuses it adds.

That's why I usually play Medium battles and Hard campaign (VH campaign is said to be bugged and actually makes it easier). If a mod is not sufficiently difficult at M(b)/H(c) for the average RTW player, it has failed somewhere in it's difficulty balance. Several modding and .exe factors can also potentially make the AI much more coherent for it's RTW standards, upping the difficulty immeasurably. So in short, anyone claiming a unit is overpowered should first try it out on Medium difficulty and then change that setting accordingly to test the effects on battles.