Byzantium --Total Destruction--

[gr33kp1mp777]

I have looked at many threads, other people's opinion, and countless campaigns of personal experience. The Byzantine Empire is WAAAAAAY underpowered. Their best heavy cavalry (Kataphractoi) are only as good as early western cavalry, even though they are trained at the best stables in a citadel. Their infantry is cheap trash meant to be chewed up as a distraction. Their militia is weaker than diluted tea, and their location is EXTREMELY vulnerable on all sides.ONLY their horse archers, and foot archers are good....

Suggestions, comments, and modds are all welcome!

I play them anyways because I'm a diehard fan but even so....it deeply saddens me

[The Good]

My exact thoughts, gr33kp1mp777. CA needs to give the Byzantine Spearmen better stats in the next Medieval II patch, instead of 5 attack and 7 defence, how about 8 attack 12 defence? That sounds better.
Oh and about the Kataphractoi, they need a stat boost too, and I mean really bad....

[bilbast]

Oh yes...

But with inferior troops you have the chance to give the Empire a glorius victory.

Im waiting for 1.2 to start a HV/HV game to give the Turks a good lesson...

Give me any kind of units you want....

And i think there will be no units stats change in 1.2....

Long live the Empire!

[Dunecat]

My exact thoughts, gr33kp1mp777. CA needs to give the Byzantine Spearmen better stats in the next Medieval II patch, instead of 5 attack and 7 defence, how about 8 attack 12 defence? That sounds better.
Oh and about the Kataphractoi, they need a stat boost too, and I mean really bad....

They need bows, too.

And about... 5 more starting provinces. The BE was still quite large at 1080, and the game does not reflect this.

Portvcale has an accurate map... but besides that, the mod's not so stellar.

[Lubeck]

You know you can always just go into EDU and alter the Byzantine units stats to give them different attack/defence and bonuses.

[mrcrusty]

Kataphractoi either need a stat boost, or need to become available much much earlier in the campaign (I mean, they are considered a Late period unit when they were more prevalent during the Early period and died out during the High period), still most mods even out the stats so it shouldn't be a big problem.

I also dislike the Byzantine Spearmen, they are way inferior to Armoured Spearmen and the Byzantines dont get any other spearmen even though in history they used heavy spearmen.

And to be honest, like in actual history, with my Byzantine Campaign, i've had to rely on mercs for the base of my armies.

dad_savage and naptown had a thread like this somwhere.... there are already suggested changes inside that thread so have a look for it if you want.

[Imperator_Maximus]

Glad you brought this up! I have made a Byzantine mod that gives the empire gunpowder, better spearmen, bowmen, and ships. Check it out!

http://files.filefront.com/ByzEnh12e.../fileinfo.html

The additions include as of the latest version:

Touflaki Scutatoi (musketeers)
Arab Gunners (gun cavalry)
Bombardizos (Byzantine Naffatun)
Scutatoi Pikemen
Kataphractoi Archers
Klibanaphoros (heavier cavalry)
Scutatoi (better spearmen)
Tzangratai (crossbowmen)
Hand Gunners
Arquebusiers
Galleas
Cannons (Ribault, Monster Ribault, Mortar, Culverin, Monster Bombard)
Added Byzantine Infantry to castles, which I renamed Themata Spatharion
Pselloiphoroi (late period heavy infantry based on the Zwei Hander)

Please read the readme for install!

[borya1978]

Glad you brought this up! I have made a Byzantine mod that gives the empire gunpowder, better spearmen, bowmen, and ships. Check it out!

http://files.filefront.com/ByzEnh12e.../fileinfo.html

The additions include as of the latest version:

Touflaki Scutatoi (musketeers)
Arab Gunners (gun cavalry)
Bombardizos (Byzantine Naffatun)
Scutatoi Pikemen
Kataphractoi Archers
Klibanaphoros (heavier cavalry)
Scutatoi (better spearmen)
Tzangratai (crossbowmen)
Hand Gunners
Arquebusiers
Galleas
Cannons (Ribault, Monster Ribault, Mortar, Culverin, Monster Bombard)
Added Byzantine Infantry to castles, which I renamed Themata Spatharion
Pselloiphoroi (late period heavy infantry based on the Zwei Hander)

Please read the readme for install!

This is what I was looking for, I always felt they made Byzantines pretty weak. Thanks for the link

[Mountain_Commander]

I dont feel the Byzantines are underpowered at all. Im dominating in my Byzantine campaign. Of course I have only played on medium so far. But by turn forty I had twenty territories conquered.

The Turks and Egypt havnt been a problem. I took out the Turks from turn five or before. Hungary and Vencie have tag teamed me but ive held them off. Only losing Thessalonica two times and capturing it back. Oh and Hungary took a castle bak from me with a full stack and a four star general against half a peasent army I had there. They're using alot of espionage on me. And sending constant armies, seige after seige, but im doing the battles myself and holding my own with archers. So I managed to take the Venetian capital for a diversion to take some heat off, and held it for about five turns until they sacked it back. Then Hungary took it from them. But my defenses have stabalized off attackers somewhat and im about to go offensive now since I got regular Byzantine archers that can be trained in a few places.

When the Mongols came they wandered around my cities in northeast Russia and didnt bother to attack. Im finding the Byzantines very easy to play. I have a ton of merchants, more than I have had in any campaign yet. Although my assassins seem unusually weaker.

I played very offensive and took any settlement within reach up until a certain point when things started leveling out. I just played defensive for awhile. Im on about turn 90 and set to go on the offensive again. Ive relied heavily upon horse archers and regular archers. Ive had a ton of heroic victories defending castles and cities. Now I got some castles and cities with regular Byzantine archers which is comforting since my armies are still left over scraps from near the start of the game. I havent invested in many military upgrades, mostly all economic and government upgrades.

The Mongols havent even bothered me. We're swapping spots for first place. Im usually holding three of the five catagories. They have the obvious military and sometimes financial advantage.

Im just letting Egypt hang on down there if they want to. Ill keep them a trade partner. I waged espionage on them for a bit to calm them down. They got aggressive for a bit but I have everything east and northof Antoioch. I built watchtowers everywhere. Most of my territory is in the mountain regions in Turkey and at no risk from invasion. I put my back against the board map wall.

I plan on taking the Hungarian capital and the Venetian capital. Sailing a couple armies down to Timbuktu just for something to do and and gathering their resources. Then ill sweep back northeast and take the Mongols head on for their wealth, and to try and get a one up on the Timurids.

I plan to stay allied with someone in Europe but I dont know who yet. Its been kinda easy so far with the Byzantines, the easiest campaign yet actually. They seem to make a lot of money. And I got a bunch of territories that arent even contested.

[Imperator_Maximus]

The Byzantines didn't like get their legs chopped off...more like an arm. They do get their best units early and with a quick start you could easily beat the game. The problem is possibility and late game. Some units seem stupidly left out. Seriously if the Turks and Egyptians have Naffatun than most defenitately the Byzantines should have them as well. Others are stuff you would expect them have like Kataphractoi Archers and Klibanaphoros who were real soldiers. Theoretically the Byzantines would have been able and might have had the soldiers other factions had. Many of the units in my mod fall into this category, such as musketeers or galleas...they just ran out of time and money. So I'm glad you having a great time with the vanilla version, just know some of us want that arm back.

[gr33kp1mp777]

Excellent comments.....I'm about to get your mod going now thats its the weekend....I've got some Greek basketball games both days but I'll make time for it!

In my experience, though anything without a bow in their army sucks, I do great in the campaign! It just makes me angry that they historically nullified all the military greatness of the heirs to ancient Greece and rome

[Zimfan]

I think that CA tried to combine the old "Byzantine army slowly becomes obsolete" thing from MTW 1 with having the all of the factions start out small and not very teched up thing in MTW 2. They get a lot of units that would kick butt in the early game, but they get them later after the western factions have better units. Well, except their spearmen. Those just plain suck, and I can't figure out why they were made so weak.

That said, I found Kataphracts great against more heavily armored knights, with their AP maces(or am I imagining things or thinking of RTW? Hmmm, gotta start another Byzantine game and find out if they have them).

That mod looks like just what the Byzantines need, Imperator_Maximus, would it happen to work for the leaked patch, or barring that, will there be one for the official patch?

[Imperator_Maximus]

I used files from the leaked patch 1.2 version of the game and I have been playing it with the 1.2 patch installed. So to answer your question yes it should work with the leaked patch and probaly will work with the offical patch. If for some reason it isn't compatible than I will make a version for it.