Roma Surrectum 2.0 -- Proposed Start Date
Dvk and I have been discussing the exact start time for RS version 2.0 and we think we have a date that will provide not only a great starting point, but will ensure that Rome and Carthage wage a massive war with each other, even if both are being controlled by the AI. Essentially, we were trying to figure out how to make sure that the 2nd Punic War happens, since it was such a key event for the whole region.
Here's a bit of background first about Hannibal's invasion of Italy:
Hannibal Hatches a Plan
Hannibal started planning his invasion years before he set out for Italy. He sent ambassadors to the Po valley and found that the Insubres and the Boii, who lived in the central and eastern Po valley, both hated the Romans and were eager to help him. Rome's hold on the Po was very tenuous at this point; they had founded a few colonies, and kept some troops there, but didn't have the strong support of most of the native Gauls, who had been beaten, but were really just waiting for a chance to strike back at Rome.
When he learned this, Hannibal decided that the Po valley would make a great base of operations for an assault into Italy, so he got his army ready and set out on his march, moving so quickly that the Romans were taken by surprise and unable to block his route.
When Hannibal descended from the Alps into the Po valley, the Insubres and Boii immediately welcomed him and thousands of their warriors joined his army, replenishing his ranks after the difficult journey. Many of the local tribes, however, sat on the fence, waiting to see if Hannibal could actually beat the Romans, while one tribe, the Taurini, was loyal to Rome. Hannibal decided to make an example of the Taurini in order to impress the other tribes, so he attacked and destroyed Turin, their main city, and massacred them in large numbers. As a result, many of the Gauls flocked to Hannibal's cause. The Romans rushed up a force to confront him and fought a minor battle, which Hannibal won, which further encouraged the Gauls.
From Wikipedia:
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The immediate outcome of the battle itself was trivial, with both forces suffering only minor setbacks and the main force of each army intact and combat-effective. Nevertheless, as a result of Rome's defeat at Ticinus, the Gauls were encouraged to join the Carthaginian cause. Soon the entirety of northern Italy was unofficially allied to Hannibal, both Gallic and Ligurian troops soon bolstering his army back to 40,000 men.
Hannibal's army, significantly supplemented, now stood poised to invade Italy. Scipio, injured in the battle, retreated across the Trebia River with his army still intact, and encamped at the town of Placentia to await reinforcements from the other consul, Tiberius Sempronius Longus. The result would be the Battle of the Trebia.
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This was November of 218. For a month the two armies faced each other in their camps, until the Romans lost patience and accepted Hannibal's offer of battle, the battle of Trebia, which Hannibal handily won in December 218.
The next spring, 217BC, Hannibal left the Po and moved into Italy. His ultimate objective was southern Italy and the Socii there, whom he hoped to pry away from their alliance with Rome.
This was an important moment in the war, the spring of 217, because Hannibal had a secure base in the Po valley with numerous allied Celtic tribes. He had many options -- he could move on Rome, he could focus on training his Gauls and securing the Po valley, he could move head for the Greek cities of southern Italy (which is what he did). The important thing about this moment in gameplay terms is that Carthage has control of several regions in northern Italy, which will force Rome to confront them.
As dvk noted in an email to me:
So what we propose is a start date of 217BC, just as Hannibal is about to launch his invasion of Italy proper. Carthage will control the Po valley. Hannibal's army is at its peak, a core of 20,000+ elite veterans from Spain and Africa, augmented by another 20,000 Gauls eager for Roman blood. Rome, after their unexpected disaster at the Trebia, has levied new legions and is preparing to confront Hannibal before he can invade the penisula and threaten Rome itself.There are some things I like here from a 'strategic' perspective. Rome will be secure in Italy, and this has always invariably forced Rome north 95% of the time. They will want to reclaim the Po Valley, and that will mean clashes with Hannibal without a doubt.
This is, I think, the best setup for a number of reasons. By 'trapping' Rome in Italy, you force the issue with Carthage... because even if they make peace or call a ceasefire, eventually they are going to fight it out. They have to, because Rome will have nowhere else to go. They'll most likely snuff the free people Syracuse, and the AI first choice will be north thru Hannibal.
This starting situation will accomplish a number of things for the mod:
- It forces Carthage and Rome to be at each others' throats. There will be no escaping a brutal war; even if it gets postponed a few years by ceasefires, it will HAVE to break out eventually, because if there's one thing we know about the game, Rome wants to move north! We won't need to rely on the weak AI naval warfare to keep the two factions fighting across the Mediteranean; now they will have no choice but to lock horns. Even if the player is playing a faction on the other side of the map, Rome and Carthage are still going to fight it out.
- It presents a Carthaginian player with a realistic historical dilemna: he has a base in northern Italy, but he has a limited number of elite troops, and his weaker Gallic levies will not be enough to keep Rome at bay indefinitely. Also, we should give his Po regions high unrest, because the Gauls were notoriously hard to please, and part of the reason Hannibal moved south was to get some allies he could count on, the Socii. He knew that he could never beat Rome if he only had the Gauls to rely on. So the Carthaginian player will have some tough choices to make: try to slowly grow his territory towards the south? Pull up his stakes and blitz south, as Hannibal did? Try to get reinforcements from Spain or Carthage? Hannibal is cut off, remember -- any new troops will have a long journey to get to him...
- It presents the Roman player with a very tough opening phase. Hannibal is going to be a force of nature. His stats will be through the roof. He will have movement bonuses, ambush bonuses, the highest possible command rating -- this guy was just a step below Alexander. Leaving him alone to expand his base would be suicidal, so the Roman player is going to have to hit him hard, and the battles will be TOUGH! Plus, the Roman player has multiple fronts to consider -- does he try and consolidate his hold on Sicily by taking Syracuse? Does he launch an invasion of Iberia? How does he handle a hostile Macedon just across the sea? What if Carthage lands troops along his exposed coast? If we set it up right, it will be a tough situation to master.
- It gives the Arverni, Belgae, Germans, Getai and the Boii some breathing room, while Carthage and Rome fight it out in the Po valley. By the time Rome has taken care of business, it's going to run smack into some angry Celts...
- And finally, this is a totally unique starting disposition for any mod -- Carthage controlling territory in Italy! Unique... AND historically accurate... AND fun...
And look at how many factions will be impacted with this starting situation: Carthage, Rome, Iberia, the Arverni, the Belgae, the Boii, Macedon, Sparta, Massilia, Syracuse -- fully half the map is going to be impacted by the struggle between Carthage and Rome, trying to figure out how they can best take advantage of it. It'll be like the current Phyrrus in Tarentum situation, but multiplied by a hundred!
What do you guys think?
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Originally Posted by Drtad
and it's on about Rome's demise (which i maintain, was a BAD thing). please dont make me buy it 
) in the Imperial Campaign, no matter how many new campaigns there are. I know others probably will too. A new campaign like this will definately draw more people though, and the added fact that the Imperial campaign is still playable is a big plus.
