Why aren't we out there killing Buddhists?

[Elohim]

Having gone through Naptown Knight's thread "Islam, this is why America hates you", I feel that I should bring up this subject which I have often pondered in an equally sensationalistic manner. Please don't mark me down as a religious bigot. This is honestly in the hope of a fun and lively discussion.

Anyway, on to the crux of the matter. Most religious wars we've heard of have been between monotheistic, Abrahamic religions. Whether it's the Crusades, the Albigensian crusade, the Reconquista, the Holocaust, the ethnic cleansing of Albania, the Thirty Year's War, the War of Three Kingdoms, Northern Ireland, Israel or the whole Sunni/Shi'a Muslim situation, it seems to be children of Abraham killing other children of Abraham because they don't agree on how to sit down, or how to pronounce a name, or because one set goes round three times widdershins on a Friday afternoon.

Why aren't we looking at our vast similarities, rather than our petty differences (remember, the Devil is in the details, and he's nobody's friend), and focus on the Buddhists?

They're like organised atheists! They don't even have a god! Or a proper afterlife, just concurrent lives!

And with the Shaolin on their side, I reckon they'd put up a good fight against those albino Vatican ninjas we've been hearing about recently. Or the Hashasheen, for that matter. Or Black September.

Anyway, splutter in anger, or discuss rationally. It's up to you.

I was always confused by this as a wee child, and I hope now to get a decent answer.

All the best, and no spitting.

[the_mango55]

Why would we kill Buddhists?

I guess we would kill more Buddhists if powerful Buddhist leaders declared religious war on the west, and many of the more extremist Buddhists followed these commands.

But since they don't we mostly leave each other alone.


EDIT: Also, because they are farther away.

[Amorphos]

ha, good thread

why not kill Hindus too - they believe in more than one god dammit.

'a funny thing about life is that we fight more amongst our own than with outsiders'. i think the answer is in an extension of this.

[catintheoven]

ha, good thread

why not kill Hindus too - they believe in more than one god dammit.

'a funny thing about life is that we fight more amongst our own than with outsiders'. i think the answer is in an extension of this.

Hindus ultimatly only believe in one god and that the well know "gods" are just aspects of the one god

[jankren]

Hindus ultimatly only believe in one god and that the well know "gods" are just aspects of the one god

Yes as far as I know most pagan religions even the ones before Judaism started as monotheistic religions in essence.

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

But since they don't we mostly leave each other alone.

Mostly. Between 1939 and 1945 (or 1941 and 1945 if you're a johnny-come-lately-to-the-war Yank) we killed a hell of a lot of Japanese Buddhists. People who talk about how peaceful and wonderful Buddhism always is forget that that about 84% of those vile Japanese war criminals were Buddhists.

[Amorphos]

84% of those vile Japanese war criminals were Buddhists.

nah they were just pretending to be - how can someone call themselves a buddhist then torture and kill its an oxymoron if ever i heard one.

[royfang]

Mostly. Between 1939 and 1945 (or 1941 and 1945 if you're a johnny-come-lately-to-the-war Yank) we killed a hell of a lot of Japanese Buddhists. People who talk about how peaceful and wonderful Buddhism always is forget that that about 84% of those vile Japanese war criminals were Buddhists.

Ah yes people talks about how peaceful and wonderful Christianity is always forget about the crusades, Spanish inqustions, Catholic vs another other christian groups....

Apparently 84% regard themselves as both Shinto and Buddhist. Both religions are pretty casual about mixing and matching.

And obviously they also found it pretty easy to justify killing innocent people with their Buddhist beliefs. Just shows you that no religions' practicioners are squeaky clean. The Dalai Lamas also presided over a theocratic kingdom for centuries, complete with prison cells under their palace for "heretics".

Funny that they don't get bashed like the Popes though, hmmm? :hmmm:

Christianity also gets bashed for having huge, richly adorned churches. Yet I've been to Buddhist temples in Thailand that make those churches look like bare, spartan barns by comparison. Double standards anyone?

Do you know why? Cause the buddhists' leaders don't control every buddhists like how the Pope 'controls' all Catholics...

don't double post - Seneca

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Ah yes people talks about how peaceful and wonderful Christianity is always forget about the crusades, Spanish inqustions, Catholic vs another other christian groups....

Good thing I'm not one of those people then, eh?

Do you know why? Cause the buddhists' leaders don't control every buddhists like how the Pope 'controls' all Catholics...

The Dalai Lama "controls" quite a few though. And doesn't seem to have a problem with Tibetan Buddhist temples and monasteries that are richly decorated. So why bash one leader of a major religious grouping over the adornment of their "temples" and not the other? Have you ever seen anyone bashing Tibetan Buddhism over this? No, me neither.

WW2 for Japan was about nationalism and the belief in a superior race. It had nothing to do with Buddhism. (in fact the Japanese raped and murdered fellow Zen Buddhists of the same tradition) makes it clear this wasn't about religion.

You'll notice I didn't actually say it was. But those news stories about rival groups of Buddhist monks attacking each other over who controls what shrine doesn't get the same level of sneering comment as, say, Christian denominations squabbling over jurisdiction within the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem. Looks like two examples of the same thing to me.

Except we all know that Buddhism is a "cool" religion and Christianity is not.

As I said: double standards.

[royfang]

Good thing I'm not one of those people then, eh?

Maybe you're not.

The Dalai Lama "controls" quite a few though.

And you do know that there is a Panchen Lama controlled by China in Tibet, while the Dalai Lama is in India in exile, right?. So I don't see the 14th Dalai Lama really 'holding any real powers' over Tibet.

[Yorkshireman]

Do you know why? Cause the buddhists' leaders don't control every buddhists like how the Pope 'controls' all Catholics...

don't double post - Seneca

Although he is the leader of the catholic church, I would suggest he has'nt had much influence over the foriegn policy or politics of predominantly catholic nations for many years.

[royfang]

Although he is the leader of the catholic church, I would suggest he has'nt had much influence over the foriegn policy or politics of predominantly catholic nations for many years.

Yes he don't have much influence over catholic nations nowadays but what about religious issues? Catholics (not all of course) think that the Pope's words are infalliable, am I right?

[Elohim]

Fair enough - but they used to have a clubhouse... temple... thing near the VI Form I go to now. They're everywhere, being nice to people, wearing saffron robes and teaching that you should treat others with kindness and respect. So they aren't that far away.
And no, I've not mistaken them for Hare Krishnas - but they already control the airports! lol... Should we be worried..?

[mrjesushat]

Fair enough - but they used to have a clubhouse... temple... thing near the VI Form I go to now.

Yes...they've penetrated our defenses quite nicely, wouldn't you say?

They're everywhere, being nice to people, wearing saffron robes and teaching that you should treat others with kindness and respect.

A very different and very subtle form of terrorism. I'd argue that their ultimate goal is to convert us to the worship of their foul, non-existant god. They do this by making us look bad with all their kindness and love and forbearance. That's a reason to kill the bastards if I've ever seen one.

So they aren't that far away.

Agreed. Gas up the planes, Christian soldiers. It's time to roll.

And no, I've not mistaken them for Hare Krishnas - but they already control the airports! lol... Should we be worried..?

Damned skippy we should be worried. Remember, George W. Bush says that the War on Terror is a clash of civilizations. Granted, Judaism, Christianity and Islam are all the same civilization, so we must conclude that the Commander-in-Chief didn't mean Islam, after all. He must have meant Buddhism and Hinduism. Hell, he might also have meant Taoism and Shinto and any of the animistic cults we've got round the world. Somebody should tell him we've been out killing the wrong people since 9-11.

I knew something was fishy about all this internecine war between the three Abrahamic Cults. We're being turned against ourselves by a bunch of nitwits without any realistic sense of what makes for a good casus belli.

Death to the Buddhists! And when they come back, let's kill 'em again!

[Denny Crane!]

Reccurent lives....sigh not quite. In fact absolutely not so as far as I can tell.

Monotheistic religions are easy to twist and in some cases can be a primary cause for conflict. Buddhism isn't so easily twisted though its human nature and its iniquities that lead to war.

Peter

[Denny Crane!]

ITs not like Christianity where you can pull out some obscure passage and twist that to justify killing people or doing Gods work.

There just isn't a way to twist Buddhism to make that kind of act allowable. Like Quez says it is an oxymoron.

Besides which I thought the dominant religions in Japan was Shinto with confucianism and buddhism coming in second and third.

Peter

Peter

[sgthunter]

I think Buddhists are great. If anything, i'd love to be a Buddhist, instead of wasting my life on school and work, i'd just sit on a nice little pillow in the mountains and day-dream.

[Zephyrus]

I think Buddhists are great. If anything, i'd love to be a Buddhist, instead of wasting my life on school and work, i'd just sit on a nice little pillow in the mountains and day-dream.

Number 1 reason for killing them right there. Lazy SOB'S....

[ThiudareiksGunthigg]

Besides which I thought the dominant religions in Japan was Shinto with confucianism and buddhism coming in second and third.

Apparently 84% regard themselves as both Shinto and Buddhist. Both religions are pretty casual about mixing and matching.

And obviously they also found it pretty easy to justify killing innocent people with their Buddhist beliefs. Just shows you that no religions' practicioners are squeaky clean. The Dalai Lamas also presided over a theocratic kingdom for centuries, complete with prison cells under their palace for "heretics".

Funny that they don't get bashed like the Popes though, hmmm? :hmmm:

Christianity also gets bashed for having huge, richly adorned churches. Yet I've been to Buddhist temples in Thailand that make those churches look like bare, spartan barns by comparison. Double standards anyone?

[Denny Crane!]

Apparently 84% regard themselves as both Shinto and Buddhist. Both religions are pretty casual about mixing and matching.

And obviously they also found it pretty easy to justify killing innocent people with their Buddhist beliefs. Just shows you that no religions' practicioners are squeaky clean. The Dalai Lamas also presided over a theocratic kingdom for centuries, complete with prison cells under their palace for "heretics".

Human nature being human nature, quite how they still retained the ability to call themselves buddhist is beyond my belief. I would say calling them practitioners is a bit of a strong word. Just in the same way I would object to the idea of calling a member of the KKK a christian despite what he might call himself.

Call it semantics or sophistory but saying something doesn't make it so, a bit abstract but true none the less. Religion gets a lot of stick for causing wars and events, something I don't think you can tar buddhism with. Just like many things people associate with other religions as causing wars and conflict can have their root causes narrowed down beyond the religions.

My major beef with the monotheistic religions is their effect of the beliefs on the psychology of the person and the collective concious, the reinforcement of tribalism and the divisions that causes. The judgemental value of prohibitive laws and ideas, the way that has influenced our society particularly the effortless visage people can adopt using the religous morality to condemn people so easily. I think it is because the moral code is so objective and rigid rather than being a touch more flexible and adaptive.

Funny that they don't get bashed like the Popes though, hmmm? :hmmm:

Location, location, location! On the subject of why the Dalai Llamas don't get criticised as much, a lack of knowledge about past events probably has a lot to do with it. How many people know eye gouging was a ritual punishment in Nepal and Tibet? How significant a role did the Dalai Llama play in these events, did he institutionalise it or just represent it as a head of state? The other difference I suspect is that these places aren't pivotal or important on the world stage. Hence the reason 134 people dying in Iraq isn't quite as important as 32 people dying in the USA even though women and children were in the blast.

Christianity also gets bashed for having huge, richly adorned churches. Yet I've been to Buddhist temples in Thailand that make those churches look like bare, spartan barns by comparison. Double standards anyone?

I would imagine the people who are living in the poor villages around them probably have views on this but then I have to admit I don't particularly rant that much about the disenfranchised youth in France and their lack of employment but I might care a little bit more about unemployment in my home town.

Peter