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  1. #1

    Default Chimps more diverse than humans

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070420/...nzees_genes_dc


    By Maggie Fox, Health and Science Editor

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - They may all be black and hairy and they may all eat and act in much the same way, but chimpanzees from different parts of Africa are genetically more diverse than all of humanity, researchers reported on Friday.

    Experts have long marveled that older ideas of race are not reflected in human DNA. Genetic diversity is more pronounced within population groups than between them, with only a few gene differences accounting for the wide variations seen in eye, skin and hair color across humanity.

    So animals all about the same size and color and showing few behavioral differences must be even more genetically identical, right?

    Wrong, says Molly Przeworski, assistant professor of human genetics at the University of Chicago.

    Her team looked at the DNA of the three designated populations of chimpanzees in Africa -- the eastern, western and central populations, designated by some researchers as sub-species of the chimpanzee.

    They found that a western chimpanzee has more differences, genetically, from an eastern chimp than any one human being has from another.

    "It is the first genetic confirmation that they are distinct populations," Przeworski said in a telephone interview. "I stay away from the word 'subspecies'."

    The study, done with experts at the Broad Institute at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and at Arizona State University, is interesting in its own right, but also sheds light on human origins, Przeworski said.

    "This gives us a working model of how human evolution might have proceeded," she said.

    CLUE TO PRE-HUMAN PAST

    Millions of years ago in Africa, ancient remains indicate that several species of pre-humans emerged and lived perhaps side-by-side. Chimpanzees, the closest genetic living relative to human beings, may be undergoing changes similar to those that drove human evolution.

    Przeworski's team also looked at bonobos, a separate species of chimpanzee. The chimpanzee genome differs from the bonobo genome by about 0.3 percent, which is one-fourth the distance between humans and chimps, they found.

    And yet bonobos are very different from the common chimpanzee. They are smaller, much gentler and known for their frequent sexual interactions.

    The differences among the three common chimpanzee species are smaller but still significant. And they reflect geographic barriers, said Celine Becquet, a graduate student who did the analysis for Przeworski.

    "We think most of this separation is genuine, a long-term consequence of geographic isolation," Becquet said.

    One major barrier between the populations is the Congo River. "Chimps don't swim," Becquet said. "For them, water provides a very effective border."

    Writing in the Public Library of Sciences journal PLoS Genetics, the researchers say they estimate that bonobos, which live south of the Congo River, split off from the ancestors of modern chimpanzees about 800,000 years ago.

    Western chimps appear to have separated from central and eastern chimpanzees about 500,000 years ago and central and eastern chimps would have divided from one another about 250,000 years ago.

    The interest is more than academic, Przeworski said, noting that all chimpanzees are a threatened species.

    "It means we have to protect three separate habitats, all threatened, instead of just one," she said.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: Chimps more diverse than humans

    Just because the started out with a larger population than humans. They have more alleles than us, big whoop.
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Chimps more diverse than humans

    Humanity needs a good lesson in humility.
    1) The creation of the world is the most marvelous achievement imaginable.
    2) The merit of an achievement is the product of (a) its intrinsic quality, and (b) the ability of its creator.
    3) The greater the disability (or handicap) of the creator, the more impressive the achievement.
    4) The most formidable handicap for a creator would be non-existence.
    5) Therefore if we suppose that the universe is the product of an existent creator we can conceive a greater being — namely, one who created everything while not existing.
    6) Therefore, God does not exist.


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  4. #4

    Default Re: Chimps more diverse than humans

    Rise of the Chimps anyone?

    On the news they billed it as: 'chimps are more evolved than humans!'

    Well, if you want to put it that way...

  5. #5

    Default Re: Chimps more diverse than humans

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fuzz View Post
    On the news they billed it as: 'chimps are more evolved than humans!'

    Well, if you want to put it that way...
    That's because the news is retarded and anything more scientifically complex than "whales are not fish" is too difficult for them to comprehend.
    "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others." - Animal Farm

    "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" - Douglas Adams (RIP)

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    TheKwas's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Chimps more diverse than humans

    Techniquely, the news is right. If we define evolution as biological change, the Chimps have changed more than us, so they are 'more evolved'.

    New Scientist says it like so:
    For each DNA letter at which the human or chimp genes differ from our shared ancestral form – inferred from the corresponding gene in macaques – researchers noted whether the change led to an altered protein. Genes that have been transformed by natural selection show an unusually high proportion of mutations leading to altered proteins.

    Zhang's team found that 233 chimp genes, compared with only 154 human ones, have been changed by selection since chimps and humans split from their common ancestor about 6 million years ago.

    This contradicts what most evolutionary biologists had assumed. "We tend to see the differences between us and our common ancestor more easily than the differences between chimps and the common ancestor," observes Zhang.
    http://www.newscientist.com/channel/...an-humans.html

    Or the Times:
    A comparison of the genomes of the two close cousins has revealed that many more chimp genes than human ones have been the subject of positive evolutionary selection.
    Last edited by TheKwas; April 22, 2007 at 06:26 PM.
    1) The creation of the world is the most marvelous achievement imaginable.
    2) The merit of an achievement is the product of (a) its intrinsic quality, and (b) the ability of its creator.
    3) The greater the disability (or handicap) of the creator, the more impressive the achievement.
    4) The most formidable handicap for a creator would be non-existence.
    5) Therefore if we suppose that the universe is the product of an existent creator we can conceive a greater being — namely, one who created everything while not existing.
    6) Therefore, God does not exist.


    Garbarsardar's love child, and the only child he loves. ^-^

  7. #7

    Default Re: Chimps more diverse than humans

    Quote Originally Posted by TheKwas View Post
    Techniquely, the news is right. If we define evolution as biological change, the Chimps have changed more than us, so they are 'more evolved'.
    If you define evolution that way then maybe. But that's not how evolution is defined.
    "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others." - Animal Farm

    "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" - Douglas Adams (RIP)

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    Default Re: Chimps more diverse than humans

    In the context of 'more' or 'less', it's a suitable definition (although lacking in detail).

    Even if I take a more precise definition of evolution like dictionary.com's entry
    3. Biology. change in the gene pool of a population from generation to generation by such processes as mutation, natural selection, and genetic drift.
    It is still fair to say that chimped evolved 'more' than we have.
    1) The creation of the world is the most marvelous achievement imaginable.
    2) The merit of an achievement is the product of (a) its intrinsic quality, and (b) the ability of its creator.
    3) The greater the disability (or handicap) of the creator, the more impressive the achievement.
    4) The most formidable handicap for a creator would be non-existence.
    5) Therefore if we suppose that the universe is the product of an existent creator we can conceive a greater being — namely, one who created everything while not existing.
    6) Therefore, God does not exist.


    Garbarsardar's love child, and the only child he loves. ^-^

  9. #9

    Default Re: Chimps more diverse than humans

    Quote Originally Posted by TheKwas View Post
    It is still fair to say that chimped evolved 'more' than we have.
    If you are talking about the literal number of different genes, then I suppose that's true. Evolution includes a time component though, and if you include the time axis as well, it's not the same statement. Chimps have had more generations than we have, so of course they've had more changes to their genome. But what is the amount of change per generation?

    I think it might be fair to say that chimps have evolved 'faster' (in terms of absolute time, not in the number of generations) since they've had more generations in the same amount of time. But you can say the same thing about mice.
    "All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others." - Animal Farm

    "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?" - Douglas Adams (RIP)

    Patronized by imb39. House of wilpuri... go fightin' dubyas!
    Member of S.I.N.

  10. #10
    TheKwas's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: Chimps more diverse than humans

    Of course. I made no comment on whether it is relevant to any sort of preconceptions, I merely said that the semantics behind the headlines were actually correct.
    1) The creation of the world is the most marvelous achievement imaginable.
    2) The merit of an achievement is the product of (a) its intrinsic quality, and (b) the ability of its creator.
    3) The greater the disability (or handicap) of the creator, the more impressive the achievement.
    4) The most formidable handicap for a creator would be non-existence.
    5) Therefore if we suppose that the universe is the product of an existent creator we can conceive a greater being — namely, one who created everything while not existing.
    6) Therefore, God does not exist.


    Garbarsardar's love child, and the only child he loves. ^-^

  11. #11

    Default Re: Chimps more diverse than humans

    Agreed, I just found it funny that the news seemed to be trying to get the viewer to stick around to see a long long Chimp city or something of that nature.

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