Buddhism

[Irishman]

This is a thread designed to facilitate discussion on the beliefs and customs of Buddhists. This is not the topic in which to discuss the existence of God.

This topic was prompted by a rash of misunderstandings of the Buddhist belief system (mainly about Buddhist supernaturalism).

Buddhism is not a religion in the strictest sense. It is a philosophy. There are no Gods and no belief in supernatural occurrences. Some Buddhists believe in reincarnation which was left over from the Hindu culture of Buddhism’s origins. In fact, the Buddha mentioned reincarnation in some lectures, but on his deathbed, he told his followers not to make a dogmatic tradition of every little belief. He wanted his followers to follow the path, and he had used the reincarnation as a means to transmit the idea of no self.

The Buddha is not a God. He is not alive and is not prayed to. He was a man. “Buddha” means the awakened one, and as such, any awakened one is a Buddha. Every person has the Buddha nature in him; he just has to achieve it through enlightenment.

The basic philosophy behind Buddhism is the cessation of suffering.

There are two main beliefs of Buddhism, they are the Four noble Truths, and the Eightfold Path.

Four Noble Truths
1. Suffering exists
2. Suffering arises from attachment to desires
3. Suffering ceases when attachment to desire ceases
4. Freedom from suffering is possible by practicing the Eightfold Path

The eightfold path is separated into groupings of the qualities of life in which they concentrate.

Three Qualities Eightfold Path
Wisdom (panna)
Right View
Right Thought
Morality (sila)
Right Speech
Right Action
Right Livelihood
Meditation (samadhi)
Right Effort
Right Mindfulness
Right Contemplation


Now on to the philosophy. Buddhism believes in the release from desire and attachment. They accept that every conditioned thing in this world is transient, and its loss is not to be mourned. They also do not believe in the soul, or personal identity as a whole. This is currently being supported in the field of personal identity in academic philosophy, notably by Derek Parfit the Professor of philosophy of Oxford and visiting lecturer at Harvard and Rutgers.
If you wish to read more on a non-doctrinal no self view, check out “Divided minds and the nature of persons” by Parfit. This can be found in the book, Reason and Responsibility.
To Buddhists, existence is an illusion. All matter in the universe is connected (supported by nuclear science) and that our persons are just connections of matter.

The Idea of meditation is to achieve a peaceful mind which has no disturbances.

As for morality. Buddhism makes no set claims but promotes peace of mind and compassion for others. This includes abstinence from drugs and alcholol, but none of these are necessary to be Buddhist. They are more guidelines to achieve a peaceful mind.

These are the Fourteen Precepts of Tich Nhat Hanh.

1. "Do not be idolatrous about or bound to any doctrine, theory, or ideology, even Buddhist ones. All systems of thought are guiding means; they are not absolute truth.

2. Do not think that the knowledge you presently possess is changeless, absolute truth. Avoid being narrow-minded and bound to present views. Learn and practice non-attachment from views in order to be open to receive others' viewpoints. Truth is found in life and not merely in conceptual knowledge. Be ready to learn throughout our entire life and to observe reality in yourself and in the world at all times.

3. Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education. However, through compassionate dialogue, help others renounce fanaticism and narrowness.

4. Do not avoid contact with suffering or close your eyes before suffering. Do not lose awareness of the existence of suffering in the life of the world. find ways to be with those who are suffering by all means, including personal contact and visits, images, sound. By such means, awaken yourself and others to the reality of suffering in the world.

5. Do not accumulate wealth while millions are hungry. Do not take as the aim of you life fame, profit, wealth, or sensual pleasure. Live simply and share time, energy, and material resources with those who are in need.

6. Do not maintain anger or hatred. As soon as anger and hatred arise, practice the meditation on compassion in order to deeply understand the persons who have caused anger and hatred. Learn to look at other beings with the eyes of compassion.

7. Do not lose yourself in dispersion and in your surroundings. Learn to practice breathing in order to regain composure of body and mind, to practice mindfulness, and to develop concentration and understanding.

8. Do not utter words that can create discord and cause the community to break. Make every effort to reconcile and resolve all conflicts, however small.

9. Do not say untruthful things for the sake of personal interest of to impress people. Do not utter words that cause diversion and hatred. Do not spread news that you do not know to be certain. Do not criticize or condemn things you are not sure of. Always speak truthfully and constructively. Have the courage to speak out about situations of injustice, even when doing so may threaten your own safety.

10. Do not use the Buddhist community for personal gain or profit, or transform your community into a political party. A religious community should, however, take a clear stand against oppression and injustice, and should strive to change the situation without engaging in partisan conflicts.

11. Do not live with a vocation that is harmful to humans and nature. Do not invest in companies that deprive others of their chance to life. Select a vocation which helps realize your ideal compassion.

12. Do not kill. Do not let others kill. Find whatever means possible to protect life and to prevent war.

13. Possess nothing that should belong to others. Respect the property of others but prevent others from enriching themselves from human suffering or the suffering of other beings.

14. Do not mistreat your body. Learn to handle it with respect. Do not look on your body as only and instrument. Preserve vital energies (sexual, breath, spirit) for the realization of the Way. Sexual expression should not happen without love and commitment. In sexual relationships be aware of future suffering that may be caused. To preserve the happiness of others, respect the rights and commitments of others. Be fully aware of the responsibility of bringing new lives into the world. Meditate on the world into which you are bringing new beings.

Do not believe that I feel that I follow each and every of these precepts perfectly. I know I fail in many ways. None of us can fully fulfill any of these. However, I must work toward a goal. These are my goal. No words can replace practice, only practice can make the words.

Remeber these are merly suggestions and there is no supernatural reprocussions to these actions.


I will post more later, and if any other Buddhists would like to join in that would be great, but I do not have the energy to continue typing more. Soon, I will post with information on Zen Buddhism, the philosophy I personally adhere to.

Please ask questions or leave comments on anything I can clear up. I would also like to spread word to those of other religions (I have seen a few) to start a thread such as this. I would love to see one on Islam and any other religions (I see we have a few pagans) who feel inclined to enlighten discussion on the beliefs and practices of their views.

Thank you,

Jason

[SickBoy13]

I always have viewed Buddhism as a way of life, and less of a religion.

Why is the Buddha usually depicted as a fat man with no wisdom bump in East Asia?

[Sheep]

To clarify, some Buddhists DO pray to him and some Buddhists do worship gods, but this varies by geography, indicating that local belief systems were adapted to fit into the general Buddhist framework. Yet more evidence that Buddhism is not a religion.

[AngryTitusPullo]

I'm more interested in the Shaolin monks...

From an Islamic point of view, Siddharta Gautama fits the description of a Sufi (in Islam) of men who abandon earthly life to dedicate all his energy and though for the afterlife (nirvana ?)

He do fit the description of a Nabi (one who were engligtened bu God) though not probably a Rasul (a Nabi, but given the duty by God to spread the message, like Moses, Jesus and Muhammad).

The characteristic of a Nabi is usually someone who's actions and teachings are basically for one own self, of how one can get closer to God comparing to a Rasul which message contains both personal and for the masses.

Enough comparison though.

Just one question though. From what I read (children's book probably) I remembered that Siddharta Gautama, before he recieved his enlightement did left his wife and his newborn child whithout even telling them ? Is that true ?

So, for one to be a Buddha ? Does one need to leave his (or her) family behind ?

[Irishman]

Just one question though. From what I read (children's book probably) I remembered that Siddharta Gautama, before he recieved his enlightement did left his wife and his newborn child whithout even telling them ? Is that true ?

He did leave them, but the legend I heard was that he told them. There are many retellings of the legend.

So, for one to be a Buddha ? Does one need to leave his (or her) family behind ?

No, but one must not be attached, this does not mean that one must leave everything, just accept that everything comes to an end.

Why is the Buddha usually depicted as a fat man with no wisdom bump in East Asia?

He is not. This is a stereotype and most of the east asian Buddhas I have seen are actually skinny. It just depends on the mood in which the buddha is to be portrayed. Most meditating Buddhas are skinny, and sitting.

[leeho730]

In its purest form (if it indeed exists) Buddhism is non-theistic religion, comprised of philosophy. I believe Buddhism is superior to Christianity and Islam, in a sense that Buddhims encourages complete detachment from earthly possessions for enlightment.

However, many Eastern Asian countries have adopted Buddha as some kind of pseduo-god, even some Maria-like figure.

[Irishman]

However, many Eastern Asian countries have adopted Buddha as some kind of pseduo-god, even some Maria-like figure.

This stems from a misconception by western-biased observers. This probably comes from Vajrayana Buddhism. The problem is, the only way in which people can describe a religion in eastern terms is that they worship a God. I would like to see which sect you are speaking of, as with all of the Buddhist sects which I have met, none dictate a belief in God.

In fact, this intrinsically against the teachings of the Buddha, who said on his deathbed that he was simply a man, no more.

I think you might be misunderstanding the concept of the focus on the Buddha-nature, but I dont know, you may know of a Buddhist sect which I am not aware of.

The Buddha nature is not actually a supernatural essence of Buddha in us all, but instead the ability for us all to become enlightened, and become a Buddhist.

[leeho730]

This stems from a misconception by western-biased observers. This probably comes from Vajrayana Buddhism. The problem is, the only way in which people can describe a religion in eastern terms is that they worship a God. I would like to see which sect you are speaking of, as with all of the Buddhist sects which I have met, none dictate a belief in God.

In fact, this intrinsically against the teachings of the Buddha, who said on his deathbed that he was simply a man, no more.

I think you might be misunderstanding the concept of the focus on the Buddha-nature, but I dont know, you may know of a Buddhist sect which I am not aware of.

The Buddha nature is not actually a supernatural essence of Buddha in us all, but instead the ability for us all to become enlightened, and become a Buddhist.

Mahayana Buddhism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana

will replace with a slightly smaller one in a mo - Seneca
Taken from Wikipedia.

Went to Korean Buddhist temple myself, 6 years ago, when I was touring Asian countries. I saw this huge stone statue of Buddha and people praying in front of it.

Went to the Buddhist temple, saw some huge wooden and elaborate statues and my Korean friend described it as one of 'god' or guardian to protect temples.

Many other East Asian countries also have left many artistic statues of Buddha.

I know Buddhism in essence is non-theistic religion, and that Buddhist monk knows it, but among commoners Buddha and Guanyin are rather worshiped like god and goddess, often praying him and her for health and business or academic success (as it has been of paramount importance in East Asian countries).

[Captain Arrrgh!]

Good thread, Irishman. I hope this aleviates any confusion regarding Buddhist practise. Though I must concede with some of the questioners here, I've lived in several regions in asia, and frequently 'the Buddha' is actually looked upon with what aproaches diety worship. Not Buddha mind, to clarify, but actually worship. Though this is not clear mind practise, we must acknowledge it exists.

[Irishman]

Taken from Wikipedia.

Went to Korean Buddhist temple myself, 6 years ago, when I was touring Asian countries. I saw this huge stone statue of Buddha and people praying in front of it.

Went to the Buddhist temple, saw some huge wooden and elaborate statues and my Korean friend described it as one of 'god' or guardian to protect temples.

Many other East Asian countries also have left many artistic statues of Buddha.

I know Buddhism in essence is non-theistic religion, and that Buddhist monk knows it, but among commoners Buddha and Guanyin are rather worshiped like god and goddess, often praying him and her for health and business or academic success (as it has been of paramount importance in East Asian countries).

They are not praying. You probably saw them doing prostrations in front of it, right? Bowing and raising thier hands up?

This is not a prayer, but a form of meditiation. The Buddha statues do not represent a worship of an Idol, but the nature of Buddha in ourselves.

Mahayana Buddhism.

Zen is a sub-sect of Mahayana Buddhism. The idea that we elevate the Buddha to a worship path is misguided and wrong. We "worship" the path to enlightenment, but then again, worship isn't the right word. The path is revered as the right way to live, but I cant think of anyone praying to it.

It is possible that these people are praying to the staue, but unlikely. Mahayana Buddhism does not believe in Gods, in fact the Devas are not even revered in the scritures (as in most sects, they are not accepted as fact).

I would also be careful of using Wiki for your source, that article was rittled with innacuracies.

[leeho730]

They are not praying. You probably saw them doing prostrations in front of it, right? Bowing and raising thier hands up?

This is not a prayer, but a form of meditiation. The Buddha statues do not represent a worship of an Idol, but the nature of Buddha in ourselves.

That's not what my Korean friend described, himself having family members being Buddhists. Of course, not a god in Christian sense, but near-god figure, worshipped like god, and their statues are considered sacred, beyond simple art.

Buddah, and Guanyin are very idolized on these countries. China, for example, are known to worship many historical figures and build shrines for them. Buddhism in China has changed according to this tradition, and Japan and Korea adopted Buddhism from China.

I suggest you go to East Asian countries and see how they worship Buddah. It's not like the way Christians worship God, but people there (non-moks) nevertheless considers Buddha as some kind of deity, perhaps demi-god or transcendental being, among commoners, being prayed to gift them with good health, academic success, monetary fortune.

Zen is a sub-sect of Mahayana Buddhism. The idea that we elevate the Buddha to a worship path is misguided and wrong. We "worship" the path to enlightenment, but then again, worship isn't the right word. The path is revered as the right way to live, but I cant think of anyone praying to it.

It is possible that these people are praying to the staue, but unlikely. Mahayana Buddhism does not believe in Gods, in fact the Devas are not even revered in the scritures (as in most sects, they are not accepted as fact).

I would also be careful of using Wiki for your source, that article was rittled with innacuracies.

Innacuracies on Buddhism section? Then you can perhaps point out those innacuracies for us?

[Captain Arrrgh!]

Silly me, I refreshed my page and lost several minutes worth of writing. I wanted to add that in regards to you seeing several Koreans 'praying' to a Buddha statue, it's highly improbable. More likely they were reciting the sutras. If you witnessed them standing, then going to their knees and bowing repeatedly, this is not worship either, but a for of self genuflection. Shunryu Suzuki explains this well in "Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind", and Irishman is much more eloquent than me at presenting the info. I would also like to add that just as many westerners are no longer practising Christians, and would have no idea what a mass entails, likewise with Koreans when it comes to accurately explaining Buddhism. I have lived in Korea and Japan for over half a decade.

[leeho730]

Silly me, I refreshed my page and lost several minutes worth of writing. I wanted to add that in regards to you seeing several Koreans 'praying' to a Buddha statue, it's highly improbable. More likely they were reciting the sutras. If you witnessed them standing, then going to their knees and bowing repeatedly, this is not worship either, but a for of self genuflection. Shunryu Suzuki explains this well in "Zen Mind, Beginner's Mind", and Irishman is much more eloquent than me at presenting the info. I would also like to add that just as many westerners are no longer practising Christians, and would have no idea what a mass entails, likewise with Koreans when it comes to accurately explaining Buddhism. I have lived in Korea and Japan for over half a decade.

Nope, he explicitely used the word "pray ('bil-da' in Korean)" when I asked them whether they were mediating ('myung-sang' in Korean) or praying. I just had a chat with him a minute ago. He is also very fluent in English, having graduated as a dentist in NZ university and all that.

So those people were worshipping Buddha (or statues of Buddha, I'm not so sure) for good fortune or academic success, In South Korea, university exams are of utmost importance so parents who are Buddhist often go to statues, shrines during the exam period and pray for the good results, my friend just told me.

Of course, this is but one aspect of Buddhism in East Asia, but nevertheless that's what some people believe.

[Captain Arrrgh!]

No argument there, my friend, I conceded above that there are those who are not practising Buddhism, but worshiping Buddha. But this is not Buddha practise, and has nothing to do with Buddhism. It's humans' nature to find "our own personal Jesus", to quote J. Cash. When we are in trouble, when it's exam time, when we are near death. We grasp at the closest god handy. This, once again, is not right mind. Irishman is being very clear and pure in his description of what Buddhism actually is. When we look at histories of actual monks near death, many of them die in meditation, not bowing to a golden icon.
(edit) You're Korean friend might more accurately use "chamseon" for meditation .

[Ummon]

My great problem with Buddhism is that I feel it is a trap.

[Irishman]

So those people were worshipping Buddha (or statues of Buddha, I'm not so sure) for good fortune or academic success, In South Korea, university exams are of utmost importance so parents who are Buddhist often go to statues, shrines during the exam period and pray for the good results, my friend just told me.

I agree with the Captain in this regaurd. Many people may worship certain religious figures. There are christians who worship Mary.
These people are not practicing Buddhism. In Buddhism, the Buddha is a man who found a way to enlightenment.
The best way to describe these people's religion is to call it a folk religion, because worshiping dieties or supernatural beings expressly goes against the teachings of Buddhism.

My great problem with Buddhism is that I feel it is a trap.

How so?

[Ummon]

How so?

Well, let's be positive. If you become enlightened in the last second of your life and then you die, then it is not a trap.

[leeho730]

I agree with the Captain in this regaurd. Many people may worship certain religious figures. There are christians who worship Mary.
These people are not practicing Buddhism. In Buddhism, the Buddha is a man who found a way to enlightenment.
The best way to describe these people's religion is to call it a folk religion, because worshiping dieties or supernatural beings expressly goes against the teachings of Buddhism.

I agree, folk religions, such totemism, or Chinese tradition of ancestor worship combined with Buddhistic figures such as Buddha or Guanyin among commoners during introduction of Buddhism to China and Korea could result in this.

But Buddhist monks in Korea did not seem to reject those worshippers as being pagan, non-buddhistic, either. Perhaps they're desperate to keep Buddhists from being converted to other religions such as Christianity.

[Irishman]

Ummon,

I guess I still dont understand how it is a trap. Are you speaking of reincarnation? Because this is not a required belief (it is only held by some Buddhists).

leeho730,

I would also like to bring up the point that many zen and other Buddhist Temples do not have a statue of Buddha at all, nor any Bhodisahtva.
This is for the purpose of eliminating the worship and the misinterpretation of the teachings.

[Ummon]

No, I mean that suffering is in truth necessary. It's elimination is a dangerous trap. Reincarnation is not a problem, whereas it is likely a truthfully founded phenomenon (who knows?).

Only through suffering learning occurs. To reduce suffering, is to reduce learning.

If you enter a road and reach the end towards the middle, there is a big problem with your geometry.