Angel's Work. Unit Stats/other.

[Angel]

Just finished the v4.1 BETA of my work.

Dvk hopefully you can get it in the staller and make a link soon. Im finished.

Please post here if you have any issues of units and use my work.

v4.1 BETA is the attached file. Edu.txt. Just drop it in your Rome Total War/Data folder. Itll ask to overwrite say yes.

Ill try to have a list of changes that are in and things improved and such on.

Changes/Improved

v4.1 BETA has the latest work I put.

This should be in other work you just need to make sure its right dvk.

Anyways heres a list.

All units have realastic cooldown before each attack. Before each attack theres a timer. So for a sword user, it takes him 1.40 secs to swing his sword. Spears and other weapons etc.

Spears are bit more accurate just now has higher cooldown.

Cavalry have been nerfed a bit with a higher cooldown for their spear attack, but plus increased accuracy.

Archers/Skirshmers increased cooldown and reduce accuracy a bit.

Alot of changes in small ways. Im stilling testing the formation/formation AI.

Alot of tweaks and changes to each unit, cant be specific.

Its basically the same thing with realastic cooldowns, Cavalry nerfed a bit, missile units improved slight, pikemen nerfed. etc. just open the edu.txt to find more specific changes.

Open it up and see it, because I dont remember every little thing. Sorry!



-Angel


Download for your own risk!

[Jimexander the Mighty]

Cool, im going to wait for the hotfix to download this (Like it all to be together)

So what exactly does this do? Sorry its a newb question.

[Angel]

What you mean exactly do?

If you d/l it and drop in the desktop there'll be a folder.

Open it and Itll have readme. Read it and follow its instructions.

Quite simple and easy access to all virgin noobs and noobs alike.

This export_descr_unit.txt Gives you the gameplay, pretty much sums it up.

[dvk901]

Don't install this yet, however, on you setups. There is a lot of stuff missing, and changes I had Agel make that you don't have. Wait for the Hotfix.

[Angel]

dvk can you breath? do you feel better?

[cherryfunk]

Can't you see him sitting in his corner, eating his french fried pertaters?

[Angel]

hes talking fine.... so maybe it anit working yet. i did put alot of time into making some retarded when there done reading it or playing .

[dvk901]

I have to say I have played a couple battles with these new stats and they're pretty good....the Roman's win ALL THE TIME. Muuuhhahahahahahaah!!!! Now the mod is perfect!!

Seriously, the two battles I fought...which is all I can do tonite, were very good. Close battles, and very few units routing until after they were pretty beat up.

I did change a few things...very minor....distance before charging for hoplites and infantry in general, most formations back to normal so the close\loose buttons work (except for Phalanxs), added a few new unit changes, and minor changes to numbers of units.

Because of the discussion about 'Unmounted Generals', I figured "What the heck" and gave all the Governor's a rather large bodyguard. So now, if you want an unmounted General, you got one with a healthy guard, and it will be much easier to tell the difference between a Governor and a Mounted General.

I have taken the 'no_custom' off the City Hoplites, so they are going to show up in the Custom battles for all the Greek factions. It makes no sense to take away these units, even from the factions that actually recruit them naturally, and they're so beautiful it's just wrong to hide them....WRONG I tell you!!

Anyway, tomorrow I'll upload the Hotfix after a test install.

[Angel]

Im glad you like the new stats. Im telling you every version that I produce gets better and better. lol dvk im glad that you are happy now, makes things much easier. Thats fine dvk, just please dont do 99% changes and leave my %1. Ill like mine %99 and you do %1, or even %95 mine, yours 5%. But if its for the people than do so. Right now rory can get off my ass bout them be weak . j/p.

What minor changes you did? please give me a list of changes youve done so later times I can think bout it and maybe do them myself.

[dvk901]

Im glad you like the new stats. Im telling you every version that I produce gets better and better. lol dvk im glad that you are happy now, makes things much easier. Thats fine dvk, just please dont do 99% changes and leave my %1. Ill like mine %99 and you do %1, or even %95 mine, yours 5%. But if its for the people than do so. Right now rory can get off my ass bout them be weak . j/p.
What minor changes you did? please give me a list of changes youve done so later times I can think bout it and maybe do them myself.

The formations I used in this mod were originally based on a combination of Sinuhet's Formations 7.0 and charge distance, attack delay, and starting formations based on a combination of Darth's settings and Repman's. Some of them, in an attempt to create a non-BI 'shieldwall' effect, caused the 'close\loose' buttons in the Battle Menu to either not work, or be backwords. And, the charge delays on some units, as well as charge distance, caused wierd behavior in a number of units....like spear-sword cavalry not charging when you told them to, or behaving erratically....or Hoplites and phalanx units walking right up into the 'teeth' of the enemy before attacking or putting their spears down. Cavalry, also, were charging into things with their spears UP...which is pretty useless.

SO......I reset many of these back to the original settings, and it has made a big difference. Cavalry now charge with spears ready to kill, hoplites and phalanx charge with spears down, etc. It will never be perfect, but it's a lot better than it was.

Other than that, I changed cavalry numbers (of units) in a few places, because one of the complaints I hear often in many mods is that cavalry is ineffective. I myself prefer cavalry....and it's 1000 LB horses, to kick butt when they hit something. Not be invincible, but send a few things flying. So I don't want the numbers too low for those who prefer to play on 'Large' setting, as I do.....but not ridiculously high so that on 'Huge' there's a whole army of them. So I bumped a few up maybe 5 units in a few places...but not much.

I also have been giving the Sarmatians and the Parthians a much higher number of horses, because they were 'horse riding' cultures. I think it more accurately reflects who they were, and if it makes it harder to deal with them...good. They need all the help they can get.

As far a defense or offense stats, I don't think I touched anything except fixed a few 'inconsistancies' where I think you must've missed the unit or something......easy to do...there's a crapload of them!

So your 90%, I'm 10% maybe. We'll see how people like this.....

[Angel]

aite i just finished d/ling the hotfix and im seeing hows the campaign is. Ill look through the edu.txt and see what youve done.

Dvk what will me alot is that you give a list of changes youve done so I can retract my steps and see why i didint do that or see why you are doing that.

[Angel]

Im working on a next version. So soon in 1-3 days ill post a new one for dvk and others to d/l. itll be compatiable and changes will be only with edu.txt


Heres the list of im gonna do for v3.0

Check all units and see any unbalancement.

Change some things with the units and test it.

Just another look through, seeing if things need to be touch or not.

Theres more im sure but so far this is what i can think of right now.

[tone]

Don't know what people think generally about battle length? My impression is that it'd be good to get them lasting longer - they seem to be shorter now than they were previously?

Just played custom battle Carthage/vs Rome and I won fairly easily against a full legion.

[Angel]

Were you carthage or Rome?


Ive extended their moral so much If keep doing it, everyone will be spartans.

[tone]

Carthage
Oh, and we need to change at least some of the hoplites back to using the underhand animation - the plan was to have a mix of the animations. I'd suggest we do this with the militia and standard hoplites.

[Angel]

Now was this Full legion hastii princpe and tiarri? or cohorts?

[Marku]

is it worth downloading this now or waiting a few days?

gauls are giving me a hard time in my current roman campaign, i even had 5,000 greeks recently land on greece, i killed them with 2 full stack legions.

this is on medium medium, lol!, ill be scared of gauls if i do VH/VH.

[tone]

Full imperial legion. One 1st cohort, 10 standard cohorts, two praetorian cavalry, armoured general, 2 syrian archers, 2 light auxiliary skirmishers. It didn't help their cause that their general insisted on charging straight into my pikes.

I had something like... armoured general, two sacred band cav, one iberian lancer, 4 poeni infantry, 2 sacred band infantry, 2 late libyphoenician infantry, 2 poeni archers, 4 elite african infantry, one armoured elephant.

Had a very close battle against Carthage as Greek cities - I gave them a similar army to above and had Armoured general, 2x companion cavalry, 2 peltasts, 2 athenian marines and the rest Greek city hoplites of various sorts. To begin with they were thrashing me but eventually I managed to drive off everything but their phalanx units and then got round the back with some archers and made them run around after me until they were tired and then at the right moment charged my small remnant of cavalry into the back each phalanx unit in turn. It was very close though - I had about 150 troops left!

Things I noticed: Athenian marines seem to have almost limitless supply of ammunition, I think. One of the Carthaginian missile units (?poeni archers) seemed to have very good stats in defence against some cavalry that I threw at them. These are Ok as long as they're intended!

Marku, I'd wait probably just until the end of today when DVK uploads the fix for the hotfix.

[dvk901]

That Imperial Legion should've kicked you butt....or at best you should've won with two guys and a horse left!

The issue here is simply one of shear overwhelming numbers, which is what I have been trying to tell Angel. I'm at work, so I'm estimating, but if my memory serves me, your Carthaginian army had 3120 infantry units on Huge settings. The Romans would've had roughly 1640. Do the math. That's like one army fighting two.

Their stats are fine, it's their numbers that are off. Given what we've called a 'standard legion' of one 1st cohort and 10 cohorts, if you gave them all '60' men each, their hvy infantry would have 2840 men on Huge settings. At '50' they would have 2600. I think a setting of '50' is a more even match.

What do you think Tone?

[tone]

OK, generally things are good. Balance seems pretty good although I was a bit worried by Rome losing so easily to Carthage.

Thoughts for improvement:

Missiles especially siege weapons still seem way too effective in the current stats, although they've lost a lot of their accuracy which is good - about right now. Just playing a custom battle and the onagers took out something like 50 moving iberian lancers in about two shots. Also archers generally are way too effective especially against cavalry it seems. The AI stands no chance with its flanking techniques. It really takes all the enjoyment out to see the enemy's elite cavalry rout before they even touch your lines!

Also I don't what happened with the idea of increased attack for barbarians and higher defence for "civilised" nations. Compare with SPQR:

RS:

type warband spear kingdoms
dictionary warband_spear_german ; Spear Warband
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type Light_1
soldier warband_spearman_german, 60, 0, 1.2
officer barb_standard
mount_effect elephant -25, chariot +11, horse +3
attributes sea_faring, hide_improved_forest, hardy
formation 1, 1, 2, 2, 5, square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 15, 7, no, 0, 0, melee, blade, piercing, spear, 5 , 0.76
stat_pri_attr light_spear
stat_sec 0, 0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 0 , 1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 6, 35, 4, leather
stat_sec_armour 0, 1, flesh
stat_heat 3
stat_ground 1,-2,2,2
stat_mental 24, impetuous, trained
stat_charge_dist 2
stat_fire_delay 5000
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 0, 200, 50, 60, 80, 510
ownership britons, slave



SPQR:

type warband spear german
dictionary warband_spear_german1 ; Spear Warband
category infantry
class spearmen
voice_type Light_1
soldier warband_spearman_german, 60, 0, 2
officer barb_standard
mount_effect horse +8, camel +8, chariot +8
attributes sea_faring,hide_improved_forest,hardy,warcry
formation 1, 1, 2, 2, 9,square
stat_health 1, 0
stat_pri 14,16, no, 0, 0, melee, simple, piercing, spear, 0, 0.5
stat_pri_attr spear
stat_sec 0,0, no, 0, 0, no, no, no, none, 25, 1
stat_sec_attr no
stat_pri_armour 4, 18, 7, metal
stat_sec_armour 0, 0, flesh
stat_heat 4
stat_ground 4, -6, 9, 6
stat_mental 13,impetuous,untrained
stat_charge_dist 30
stat_fire_delay 0
stat_food 60, 300
stat_cost 0, 510, 155, 60, 80, 510
ownership germans



Note the higher attack and especially the charge benefit for the SPQR unit. Stat pri is attack, the second number is charge bonus. Maybe we can tweak these a bit further?