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  1. #1

    Default God Save the Dinosaurs

    I can't decide where to put this, Ethos or Athenaeum...mods please move it where you see fit.

    http://www.conservapedia.com/Dinosaurs

    Humans and Dinosaurs Coexisting

    Creationists use a number of lines of evidence to support their view that dinosaurs and man coexisted. For example, explorers have reported seeing a live dinosaur.[9] A thousand people reported seeing a dinosaur-like monster in two sightings around Sayram Lake in Xinjiang according to the Chinese publication, China Today. An expedition which included Charles W. Gilmore, Curator of Vertebrate Paleontology with the United States National Museum, examined an ancient pictograph which is claimed to portray dinosaurs and man coexisting.[22][23]. The World Book Encyclopedia states that: "The dragons of legend are strangely like actual creatures that have lived in the past. They are much like the great reptiles [dinosaurs] which inhabited the earth long before man is supposed to have appeared on earth." [24]. Dragons exist in the folklore of many European and Asian cultures.[25] World Book Encyclopedia says, "In Europe, dragons are traditionally portrayed as ferocious beasts that represent the evils fought by human beings. But in Asia, especially in China and Japan, the animals are generally considered friendly creatures that ensure good luck and wealth."[25] Dragons appear in the flag of Wales, and in traditional Chinese New Years' Day celebrations. The Nile Mosaic of Palestrina, a second century piece of art, is said to appear to be a piece of artwork that shows a dinosaur and man coexisting. [26] Creation scientists also see the recent dinosaur tissue find as a strong rebuttal of the claim that dinosaurs lived millions of years ago. [27]

    Among those who believe in the existence of the Loch Ness Monster, one popular theory is that it is a living plesiosaur.[28]

    Talk.Origins argues[29] that the inclusion of dinosaurs within many cultures is based on the existence of fossils. Ancient people, unaware that the ancient fossils uncovered by erosion were of extinct animals, attributed the bones to living, magical creatures. This would explain the importance of dragons in Chinese culture - there are a large number of dinosaur (as well as non-dinosaur) fossils to be found in China. CreationWiki's response[30] is that the fossils reminded people of the legends, not that the fossils inspired the legends.
    And more:
    Creationary Perspective

    Young Earth Creationists believe, based primarily on Biblical sources, that dinosaurs were created on day 6 of the creation week[5] approximately 6,000 years ago, along with other land animals, and therefore co-existed with humans. As such, they reject the Theory of Evolution and the beliefs of evolutionary scientists about the age of the earth.

    They believe that dinosaurs lived in harmony with other animals, (probably including in the Garden of Eden) eating only plants[6]; that pairs of each dinosaur kind were taken onto Noah's Ark during the Great Flood and were preserved from drowning[7]; that many of the fossilized dinosaur bones originated during the mass killing of the Flood[8]; and that some descendants of those dinosaurs taken aboard the Ark still roam the earth today.[9]

    They also use archeological, fossil, and documentary evidence to argue that dinosaurs co-existed with mankind until at least relatively recent times.

    Because the term only came into use in the 19th century, the Bible does not use the word "dinosaur." However, they are alleged to be mentioned in numerous places throughout the biblical account. For example, the behemoth in Job and the leviathan in Isaiah are sometimes said to be references to dinosaurs,[10] [11], although others have claimed that Behemoth and Leviathan are references to a hippopotamus or elephant and a crocodile respectively. Young-Earth creationists point out that the descriptions don't fit these creatures, including that hippopotamuses and elephants don't have a "tail like a cedar".
    I've read a few books on the matter when my science teacher was trying to convince me that creationism is a valid stance. I remember being amazed at some of the lengths the authors went to in order to try to validate the argument.

    Needless to say, I was not convinced. Still, it's an interesting article and perspective, hopefully some people here have something to say.

  2. #2
    Gwendylyn's Avatar Citizen
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    Default Re: God Save the Dinosaurs

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fuzz View Post
    I've read a few books on the matter when my science teacher was trying to convince me that creationism is a valid stance.
    Hopefully s/he wasn't trying to do that while in class.

  3. #3

    Default Re: God Save the Dinosaurs

    yeah, man and dinosaurs do coexist. If you want to see a dinosaur look no further than your refrigerator. Pull out a chicken, thats a dinosaur. Look at a pigeon, a parrot, a hawk, an ostrich. Those are the last remnants of the dinosaurs.

    Well all I can say about the "6,000" year number is...what, there were dinosaurs in mesopotamia? Yeah, the first agriculturists were constantly having to replant their crops because the T-rex would leave footprints all over the wheat field, and the brontosaurus' wouldn't leave the fig trees alone.

    edit: and what about all the geologists who carbon date rocks and clock them back millions of years, are they all just led astray by satan to propogate atheism and turn the world agianst God so the anti-christ can come to power?
    Last edited by RZZZA; April 16, 2007 at 12:29 AM.

  4. #4

    Default Re: God Save the Dinosaurs

    Quote Originally Posted by RZZZA View Post
    and what about all the geologists who carbon date rocks and clock them back millions of years, are they all just led astray by satan to propogate atheism and turn the world agianst God so the anti-christ can come to power?
    The books I read wrote some gibberish about how carbon dating isn't accepted as a feasible way to accurately see how old something is. My response was that it sure can tell a couple of million years's difference. They also threw in some stuff about how the Flood messed up all the layers of rocks in the world so we don't really know how old things are.


    Quote Originally Posted by Gwendylyn
    Hopefully s/he wasn't trying to do that while in class.
    Not really. It's a long story why he gave me the books but basically it boils down to a nagging gf.

  5. #5
    TheKwas's Avatar Civitate
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    Default Re: God Save the Dinosaurs

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fuzz View Post
    The books I read wrote some gibberish about how carbon dating isn't accepted as a feasible way to accurately see how old something is. My response was that it sure can tell a couple of million years's difference. They also threw in some stuff about how the Flood messed up all the layers of rocks in the world so we don't really know how old things are.
    Carbon dating isn't an accepted method to see how old something (like a dinosaur bone) is. It's half-life is only 5000 (or so) years. Dinosaur bones are dated using other radioactive measurements.
    1) The creation of the world is the most marvelous achievement imaginable.
    2) The merit of an achievement is the product of (a) its intrinsic quality, and (b) the ability of its creator.
    3) The greater the disability (or handicap) of the creator, the more impressive the achievement.
    4) The most formidable handicap for a creator would be non-existence.
    5) Therefore if we suppose that the universe is the product of an existent creator we can conceive a greater being — namely, one who created everything while not existing.
    6) Therefore, God does not exist.


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  6. #6
    Jubal_Barca's Avatar Master Engineer
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    Default Re: God Save the Dinosaurs

    Wow... Moses could have crossed the red sea on a plesiousaur... Dinosaurs hauled the stone for the pyramids... and I think I just saw a pig fly past the window...
    Sine remo flumine adverso - Latin, 'up the creek without a paddle'.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: God Save the Dinosaurs

    dino bones are a complex riddle designed to protect the true identity of the pope by the hare club for men...ive said to much.

  8. #8

    Default Re: God Save the Dinosaurs

    Quote Originally Posted by scheuch13 View Post
    dino bones are a complex riddle designed to protect the true identity of the pope by the hare club for men...ive said to much.
    I thought the true identity of the pope has already been revealed this easter
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  9. #9
    Niles Crane's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: God Save the Dinosaurs

    Well, they have me convinced. Where's the nearest creationist church?

  10. #10

    Default Re: God Save the Dinosaurs

    rock layers are just like tree layers, you can cut open rocks and analyze the "rings". You can tell a lot about the land/tree that way.

    I dunno what these creationists are spewing, these are the worst kind of people imo. People to whom truth and reality doesn't seem to matter at all.

  11. #11
    Erik's Avatar Dux Limitis
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    Default Re: God Save the Dinosaurs

    Quote Originally Posted by The Fuzz View Post
    I've read a few books on the matter when my science teacher was trying to convince me that creationism is a valid stance.
    Creationism is a valid stance.
    It's just not a valid scientific stance.



  12. #12
    Bokks's Avatar Thinking outside Myself
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    Default Re: God Save the Dinosaurs

    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Creationism is a valid stance.
    It's just not a valid scientific stance.
    Excellent, you can believe whatever you want and no-one can say otherwise. However, teaching this in science class isn't valid, it isn't science. Teach it, it's interesting, just don't teach it in a setting that is meant to show the proven, because this isn't proven, it's all theories. Not scientific theories either, since in science a theory is as good as you can get it (laws and principles are different) this is the teory that has to do with faith.
    So, if any of you really do believe in this, I would point out scientifically while the arguments they propose sound good alone, they fall apart under deeper scrutiny while in comparison to the science that we can prove by everyday statistics that you can go out and do yourself. That doesn't mean you can't believe it, that doesn't mean you can't teach it. It just means it doesn't belong in a science class.
    Anyway, we did a little look into this last semester. There's another interesting theory, if you take the current rate of population increase and reverse it, the population reaches two 6000 years ago. Of course this would require that the rate of population increase would have been the same for the last 6000 years, which it hasn't been, but it was a very interesting topic and really strangely coincidental.
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  13. #13
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: God Save the Dinosaurs

    moved to this great place of science we call the athenaeum
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  14. #14
    chris_uk_83's Avatar Physicist
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    Default Re: God Save the Dinosaurs

    Haha, it seems that the best way to kill a thread is to move it to the Athenaeum.

  15. #15

    Default Re: God Save the Dinosaurs

    Quote Originally Posted by chris_uk_83 View Post
    Haha, it seems that the best way to kill a thread is to move it to the Athenaeum.
    Quoted for truth

  16. #16
    Simetrical's Avatar Former Chief Technician
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    Default Re: God Save the Dinosaurs

    Quote Originally Posted by Lector V View Post
    There's another interesting theory, if you take the current rate of population increase and reverse it, the population reaches two 6000 years ago.
    The world's current population growth rate is 1.14%, with a doubling time of 61 years. A hundred doubling times run in reverse would give us, 6100 years ago, a population 2100 times smaller than the current population, i.e., a population of 0.000000000000000000005 people or so, slightly less than the two desired. If my calculations are correct, which they might not be, you would need an average annual growth rate of about 0.37% for there to be two people 6000 years ago. That's in the ballpark of what the average growth rate over the past six millennia may have been (it was doubtless somewhere between 0.1% and 1%), but I doubt there's any convincing evidence for so precise a figure.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: God Save the Dinosaurs

    The so called "Dinosaurs" from the sightings were creatures that are intelligent and live beneath the earth.
    Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!"

  18. #18

    Default Re: God Save the Dinosaurs

    lol... i can't believe people actually follow this Flintstones theory....
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