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  1. #1

    Default The Arverni

    Here's a thread to start collecting information on our revised 'Gallic Tribes' faction, the Arverni.

    Some basic info:

    The Arverni were a Gallic tribe that inhabited the present-day region of Lyon, France. They gave their name to the French region of Auvergne.
    The Arveni were a very powerful tribe living in the Auvergne, with their most important stronghold being Gergovia (somewhere near Clermont-Ferrand). They had been the most powerful Gallic tribe in the 3rd and 2nd centuries BC under their king, Luernios, but when his son Bituitus was defeated by the Romans in 123BC and the Roman ‘Provincia’ (that is the origin of the French word "Provence") established, their ascendancy passed to the Aedui and Sequani.

    One of the most famous princes in the history of Gaul belonged to the Arverni tribe: Vercingetorix. He was responsible for leading the last major rebellion against the Roman occupation of the Gaul homeland, but was defeated decisively at the Siege of Alesia by Gaius Julius Caesar, and executed five years later.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arverni
    A map of their location in the 1st century:



    Here's an interesting comment about their appearance; I don't know how accurate it is, but perhaps we could distinguish the Arverni from the Boii and Belgae by making them darker-haired:

    In the sixth year of the war the conquest seemed to have been made, and the Roman legions were guarding the north and west, while Cæsar himself had crossed the Alps. Subjection pressed heavily on the Gauls, some of their chiefs had been put to death, and the high spirit of the nation was stirred. Meetings took place between the warriors of the various tribes, and an oath was taken by those who inhabited the centre of the country, that if they once revolted, they would stand by one another to the last. These Gauls were probably not tall, bony giants, like the pillagers of Rome; their appearance and character would be more like that of the modern Welsh, or of their own French descendants, small, alert, and dark-eyed, full of fire, but, though fierce at the first onset, soon rebuffed, yet with much perseverance in the long run. Their worship was conducted by Druids, like that of the Britons, and their dress was of checked material, formed into a loose coat and wide trousers.

    http://digital.library.upenn.edu/wom...eds/chief.html
    Here's some further evidence of this, from Strabo:

    Next, I must discuss the Aquitani, and the tribes which have been included within their boundaries, namely, the fourteen Galatic tribes which inhabit the country between the Garumna and the Liger, some of which reach even to the river-land of the Rhone and to the plains of Narbonitis. For, speaking in a general way, the Aquitani differ from the Galatic race in the build of their bodies as well as in their speech; that is, they are more like the Iberians.

    http://penelope.uchicago.edu/Thayer/...trabo/4B*.html
    Note that Strabo describes the Arverni as one of fourteen tribes that comprise the Aquitani. He goes on to say:

    The Arverni are situated on the Liger; their metropolis is Nemossus,a city situated on the Liger. This river, after flowing past Cenabum (the emporium of the Carnutes at about the middle of the voyage,an emporium that is jointly peopled),discharges its waters towards the ocean. As for their former power, the Arverni hold out as a great proof thereof the fact that they oftentimes warred against the Romans, at times with two hundred thousand men, and again, with double that number — with double that number, for example, when they, with Vercingetorix, struggled to a finish against the Deified Caesar; and, before that, also, with two hundred thousand against Maximus Aemilianus, and also, in like manner, against DometiusAhenobarbus.

    Now the struggles against Caesar took place near Gergovia (a city of the Arverni, situated on a high mountain), where Vercingetorix was born, and also near Alesia (a city of the Mandubii — a tribe which has a common boundary with the Arverni — and this city too is situated on a high hill, although it is surrounded by mountains and two rivers), in which not only the commander was captured but the war had its end. But the struggles against Maximus Aemilianus took place at the confluence of the Isar and the Rhodanus, where the Cemmenus Mountain approaches closely the Rhodanus; and against Dometius Ahenobarbus, at a place still lower down the Rhodanus, at the confluence of the Sulgas and the Rhodanus.

    Again, the Arverni not only had extended their empire as far as Narbo and the boundaries of Massiliotis, but they were also masters of the tribes as far as the Pyrenees, and as far as the ocean and the Rhenus. Luerius, the father of the Bituitus who warred against Maximus and Dometius, is said to have been so exceptionally rich and extravagant that once, when making a display of his opulence to his friends, he rode on a carriage through a plain, scattering gold and silver coins here and there, for his followers to pick up.
    Seems like the perfect choice for this faction; the location is good, they were clearly a dominant and powerful tribe, and they fought Rome as hard as any people ever did...
    Last edited by cherryfunk; April 15, 2007 at 11:55 AM.



  2. #2

    Default Re: The Arverni

    Here are the Celtic images from the Russian minatures site. These could serve as inspiration for the Arverni, the Belgae, and the Boii.

    One thing to notice is how colorful their outfits are, and also how well equipped they are. These might be representing elite warriors, but clearly the Celts were not 'barbarians'. Remember, the Romans copied mail armor from the Celts. The Celts invaded Italy and ocupied Rome. They destroyed a number of Roman armies. And the Romans used them extensively as mercenaries -- Crassus even took several thousand Gallic cavalry with him when he invaded the Parthian empire.

    I think the vanilla Gauls, and many other mods, tend to depict them as scrabbly, rag-wearing, drab-colored forest-dwellers. They were actually one of the oldest and most advanced cultures in Europe. I'd like to see our Celts appear a little more impressive, more colorful, better-armed and armored than is often the case in RTW.

    Here's a lightly-armed warrior, with only a shield, helmet, and chest-protector, but notice how ornamental his equipment is, how colorful his tunic and trousers:



    These next two are much better armored, with full mail coats. One has that cool bird helmet -- you gotta love these Celtic helmets! This is a good look for heavy infantry:





    I love this shield, and the severed head is a nice touch, it would be great if we could get a head in one of our models! Maybe for a standard bearer?



    A chariot:



    A standard bearer:



    A horn blower:



    A warlord:



    Another warrior, this guy would be medium infantry (studded leather armor, not quite chain but better than nothing):

    Last edited by cherryfunk; October 07, 2007 at 07:39 AM.



  3. #3

    Default Re: The Arverni

    Nice work cherry.

    I think I remember seeing a mod where the standard bearers had heads, so I think it is possible.
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  4. #4
    aja5191's Avatar TWC Bearcat
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    Default Re: The Arverni

    Well hopefully, they would all have heads! .

    But in considering the flashy-ness of these models, we also have to realize that the desire of the creator of the models is for them to sell, to make him money. And who wants to buy a drab-looking scruffy guy? While some of the warriors would be colorful, we have to realize that at this time in history, dyes were very expensive, especially the purples and blues.

  5. #5
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: The Arverni

    Purples, yes, but it is becoming an archeological fact that the Barbarians were definitely not the drab brown that most mods portray them as. Warlords would've been able to afford purple dyes...they were highly prized, and a symbol of wealth and power all over the world.

    I think it is more historical to portray the Barbs 'flashy', just as it is the the eastern factions. Look at how Seleucid has always been portrayed...gray on gray. I highly doubt this was real. Even CA tried to portray Parthia as a colorful nation....well, they tried.

    Creator of: "Ecce, Roma Surrectum....Behold, Rome Arises!"
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  6. #6

    Default Re: The Arverni

    Speaking of the Seleucids, here's a description from 'Rome on the Euphrates':

    The Seleucid armies were the veterans and descendants of Alexander’s forces that had remained, after 323BC, under his general Seleucus Nicator in Asia. In the first generation and again under Antoichus the Third, they had garrisoned the world from Antioch to Bactria, and made the traditions of their Macedonian home magnificent while keeping them basically unaltered. Their officers dyed the original shallow broad-brimmed hat crimson, and embroidered their cloaks and buskins with crimson and gold. The shields were bronze or silver, or decorated with bronze or silver crescents. Writers of that era confirm over and over again this military glow of the Macedonians, gleaming in the pride of life with gilt armor and scarlet coats; ‘glittering in the sun as they marched down in their order, the elephants with their castles, and the men in their purple….’



  7. #7
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
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    Default Re: The Arverni

    Well there you have it....pompous bastards!!

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  8. #8
    aja5191's Avatar TWC Bearcat
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    Default Re: The Arverni

    I always knew there was a reason I disliked the Seleucids...

  9. #9

    Default Re: The Arverni

    Heads aren't a problem to add. The only question is: how many??


    Under patronage of Spirit of Rob; Patron of Century X, Pacco, Cherryfunk, Leif Erikson.

  10. #10

    Default Re: The Arverni

    I think one, or two at the most. I like the look of that Celt with the standard with the head attached.



  11. #11

    Default Re: The Arverni

    I was kinda pulling your leg!

    Here's a question. Did celts use axes?


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  12. #12

    Default Re: The Arverni

    There's a couple of pics above with axes, I imagine they did use them but axes seem to have been more popular out east among the Skythians/Sarmatians, as far as I've been able to tell.



  13. #13

    Default Re: The Arverni

    my general impression of axes is that they're used by those peoples that dont have access to large supplies of iron ore. The Celts had the stuff by the bucketload, and thus were able to make loads of finely crafted swords and armour; the germans didnt have so much, so often used sharp wooden spears, clubs, and axes (you dont need nearly as much iron to make one). i may be wrong, but that's my understanding of it.
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  14. #14
    Angel's Avatar Angeal
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    Default Re: The Arverni

    accualy axes are from iron. Why you think axes were common in german times? celtics had a lot more supplus of resources than germans but why is the germans scariest of everyone? Why romans feared them than celtics? Celtics had better armour, weaponary, troops? but germans.... why them. Germans werent low people, they were highly skilled warriors. Just like dacians and Thracians. Thracians were especcially skilled with their amazing swords. Ill get some of my sources to prove germans had iron axes
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  15. #15

    Default Re: The Arverni

    Quote Originally Posted by rory o'kane View Post
    my general impression of axes is that they're used by those peoples that dont have access to large supplies of iron ore. The Celts had the stuff by the bucketload, and thus were able to make loads of finely crafted swords and armour; the germans didnt have so much, so often used sharp wooden spears, clubs, and axes (you dont need nearly as much iron to make one). i may be wrong, but that's my understanding of it.
    "not as much" not "none at all" ( the handle of an axe is usually wood, it's only the blade that's metal)! what i meant was, they didnt have enough iron to make swords for everyone, but enough to make axes, as each individual axe requires far less iron if you read my post again carefully you'll see thats what i was saying.
    'Ecce, Roma Surrectum!' Beta Tester and Historian
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  16. #16

    Default Re: The Arverni

    Here's a Celtic heavy cavalryman from southern Gaul, so this would be an Arverni. The smaller pic of an infantryman with the checkered trousers would be a Belgae (northern France):

    Last edited by cherryfunk; October 07, 2007 at 07:40 AM.



  17. #17

    Default Re: The Arverni

    Here's a deer carving tone might be able to make use of:



    And a Celtic pottery design that might look good on a shield or cloak:

    Last edited by cherryfunk; May 13, 2007 at 06:47 AM.



  18. #18

    Default Re: The Arverni

    Celtic mounted warrior from Cisalpine Gaul:



    A Gallic noble warrior of the type that fought Caesar:

    Last edited by cherryfunk; October 07, 2007 at 07:41 AM.



  19. #19

    Default Re: The Arverni

    These are Gaesatae fighting at Telamon. These units should be available to both the Arverni and the Boii:

    Last edited by cherryfunk; October 07, 2007 at 07:41 AM.



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