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Thread: Open the Curia to all

  1. #1
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    Default Open the Curia to all

    An ongoing discussion with Prof420 and Aristocrat has got me thinking (again). I've been getting more and more despairing of the way I see the Curia going with its constant rulemaking and navel gazing, and the ongoing question of getting more modders involved in it.

    So, maybe the route isn't to limit voting to once a month, or restrict bill proposal etc. Maybe what we need to do is dilute the culture of elitism in the Curia, open it and the prothalmus and the voting to all members of the site.

    Access to the Curia could be monitored by the CdeC who could have the ability to suspend people's access due to poor behaviour. You could also do things like say people with full warnings, or so many warning points, lose the ability to vote.

    I would keep the citizen ranks as they are and use them for membership of the governing bodies, staff positions etc as is currently the case.

    So, a rough draft of the proposal:

    • Curia, Prothalmus and Curia Vote are open to all members with more than 100 posts (or whatever the current voting post limit is - it makes spamming of votes with new accounts more difficult)
    • Any member can therefore propose new legislation in the Prothalmus regardless of rank, but new legislation must be supported by 3 Citizens before it can be moved to a vote
    • Any member who has more than 3(?) warning points loses the right to vote until the warnings are spent
    • Posting rules in the Curia and all its sub-forums are much more severe and all posters should be aware of that
    • The CdeC has the right to remove access to the Curia and its sub-forums for any member in cases of bad behaviour
    • Current citizen ranks and privaledges still remain - except obviously the 'Curia only for citizens' one
    • Edit: we might have to retain some citizen-only votes, eg. for moderating staff, Hex etc


    Let's give it a shot and see whether a breath of fresh air will change things......

    (and thanks to Aristocrat whose idea I have shamelessly stolen )
    Last edited by Tacticalwithdrawal; April 12, 2007 at 08:57 AM.
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  2. #2
    Belisarius's Avatar Like so Divine!
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    Default Re: Open the Curia to all

    Id rather start by giving them the right to vote and then later giving them the right to discuss. Let's see where this goes though.

  3. #3
    Last Roman's Avatar ron :wub:in swanson
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    Default Re: Open the Curia to all

    boo this proposal. elitism ftw!
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  4. #4
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    Default Re: Open the Curia to all

    I can see where you are coming from but I'd like to give people a chance to discuss as well as it gives a lot more involvement in the process, and may throw up some good ideas.

    but, this is just a high-level idea at the moment so we can see what people think or how they would improve it.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Open the Curia to all

    Current citizen ranks and privaledges still remain
    Except that the Curia is the Citizen privaledge.

    Quite how this will somehow involve modders is beyond me, if they really want the Curia, they will accept the citizen badge, if they dont want the Curia, we cant force them.
    Really, what needs to be done is more modders are patronised.
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  6. #6
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    Default Re: Open the Curia to all

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    Except that the Curia is the Citizen privaledge.
    ok, ok, changed that

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    Quite how this will somehow involve modders is beyond me, if they really want the Curia, they will accept the citizen badge, if they dont want the Curia, we cant force them.
    Really, what needs to be done is more modders are patronised.
    involvng modders would only be a very minor side effect (though a good one if it happened). I'm more interested in opening up the voting to the whole site, getting everyones' input etc.
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Open the Curia to all

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacticalwithdrawal View Post
    involvng modders would only be a very minor side effect (though a good one if it happened). I'm more interested in opening up the voting to the whole site, getting everyones' input etc.
    But TWC is not a democracy though, we are elitist and set in our ways, I cant see people who dont want to be a civ caring about the Curia, and people that do care about the Curia are/eventualy get to be civs.
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  8. #8
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    Default Re: Open the Curia to all

    and why does Civ have to = Curia?

    the only reason it was set up this way was a sudden noob invasion of TWC back in the old days, the civs and curia (and symposium) were set up to get away from them.

    civs would still be important as you wouldn't be able to become a moderator unless you were a civ, etc
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Open the Curia to all

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacticalwithdrawal View Post
    and why does Civ have to = Curia?

    the only reason it was set up this way was a sudden noob invasion of TWC back in the old days, the civs and curia (and symposium) were set up to get away from them.

    civs would still be important as you wouldn't be able to become a moderator unless you were a civ, etc
    Hmmm. What sorta things would non Civs be able to do in the Curia, propose bills and such?
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  10. #10
    Atterdag's Avatar Tro og Håb
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    Default Re: Open the Curia to all

    Except that the Curia is the Citizen privaledge.
    Qft
    I wish that I had more to say, but if every poster (attaining 100 posts and getting no warning in the process, is incredible easy) get's acces to the Curia, Curial voting etc, what is the Citizenship then worth?
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  11. #11
    Halie Satanus's Avatar Emperor of ice cream
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    Default Re: Open the Curia to all

    It's so nuts it just might work. Opening the vote is a good idea, opening the Curia, meh, If the Curia is open to all what is there to strive for?. To be honest though as i have said (quite a few times) to modders whether you have a badge or not makes no difference when it comes to the Admins listening to your ideas.

    Might make the Opifex votes more reflective of the community feelings rather than a minority of Curialist's.

  12. #12
    the Black Prince's Avatar British Patriot
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    Default Re: Open the Curia to all

    the point of the citizen system was that only those active contributing members were able to have a say in governance, not any member who signed up and spammed for a couple of days to hit minimum requirements...

    if this were to be implemented, there would have to be safeguards in place to prevent people simply spamming their way up the ladder. CdeC review would be impractical and impossible, there'd be too many accounts to review, so the only way to do it would be to radically raise the entry requirements for posting... i.e. anyone can post in the curia who has at least 750 posts and been here 3 months. In that time, the true spammers would be rooted out by staff and warned/cautioned and so self disqualified.

  13. #13
    Garbarsardar's Avatar Et Slot i et slot
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    Default Re: Open the Curia to all

    I have repeatedly argued that Citizenship should be connected with Curial participation.

    I was always rebuffed by that Citizen (Civitas) is awarded for high level of posting (and later of modding) and did not mean that the holders of such rank should participate in the governance.

    So since the Citizens deemed necessary to remove politics from their badge, it is probably a good idea to remove the badges from politics.

    I obviously support any idea as Tac's (Aristotac's anyway...)

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Open the Curia to all

    Quote Originally Posted by Halie Satanus View Post
    It's so nuts it just might work. Opening the vote is a good idea, opening the Curia, meh, If the Curia is open to all what is there to strive for?. To be honest though as i have said (quite a few times) to modders whether you have a badge or not makes no difference when it comes to the Admins listening to your ideas.

    Might make the Opifex votes more reflective of the community feelings rather than a minority of Curialist's.
    The thing is, if anyone can vote, including people who dont care, then will the votes have any meaning? I could make a new account, get 100 posts and spam the votes. I could imagine a lot of people voting for the sake of it, without having learned what its about etc.

    I wish that I had more to say, but if every poster (attaining 100 posts and getting no warning in the process, is incredible easy) get's acces to the Curia, Curial voting etc, what is the Citizenship then worth?
    Erm, eh . . . we . . . can be moderators and hold offices. Thats it.
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  15. #15
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    Default Re: Open the Curia to all

    well, I can see three variations (but there are probably more):

    1. non-citizens can only vote
    2. non-citizens can vote and can propose/discuss in the Curia. If 6(?) citizens support it gets moved to the proth and then gets treated in the same way as a bill at the moment
    3. non-citizens have full access


    I wish that I had more to say, but if every poster (attaining 100 posts and getting no warning in the process, is incredible easy) get's acces to the Curia, Curial voting etc, what is the Citizenship then worth?
    only citizens can be moderators, CdeC, Tribunal judges etc etc etc

    The thing is, if anyone can vote, including people who dont care, then will the votes have any meaning? I could make a new account, get 100 posts and spam the votes. I could imagine a lot of people voting for the sake of it, without having learned what its about etc.
    well on the basis only around 40 citizens vote at the moment.... we might attract people who are interested in the voting rather than the badge
    Last edited by Tacticalwithdrawal; April 12, 2007 at 09:21 AM.
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  16. #16
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    Default Re: Open the Curia to all

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacticalwithdrawal View Post
    well, I can see three variations (but there are probably more):

    1. non-citizens can only vote
    2. non-citizens can vote and can propose/discuss in the Curia. If 6(?) citizens support it gets moved to the proth and then gets treated in the same way as a bill at the moment
    3. non-citizens have full access
    If anything, we should limit it to 1, just like how the ordinary people cannot discuss who will become party leader, chancelor etc, but can vote in the main elections.

    well on the basis only around 40 citizens vote at the moment.... we might attract people who are interested in the voting rather than the badge
    There is that to it as well, however, I am a firm believer that the badge is for political reasons.
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  17. #17

    Default Re: Open the Curia to all

    I actually love this idea. I'd say a system where:

    Non Citizens (with no active warnings and 100 posts) can post everywhere a Civitate can, except the Symposium, vote and all that.

    Citizens, can run for moderator and other positions, and 6 are needed to support something before it is moved to a vote.
    Last edited by Perikles; April 12, 2007 at 09:29 AM.

  18. #18
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    Default Re: Open the Curia to all

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    If anything, we should limit it to 1, just like how the ordinary people cannot discuss who will become party leader, chancelor etc, but can vote in the main elections..
    buuuut, ordinary people can vote on the MP's, so, by your reasoning, the citizens ranks should be elected?

    though I am coming around to civs being the only ones able to vote on appointments
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  19. #19
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    Default Re: Open the Curia to all

    Quote Originally Posted by Tacticalwithdrawal View Post
    buuuut, ordinary people can vote on the MP's, so, by your reasoning, the citizens ranks should be elected?
    Arent they already, with the CdeC?

    though I am coming around to civs being the only ones able to vote on appointments
    Agree.
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  20. #20
    Tacticalwithdrawal's Avatar Ghost
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    Default Re: Open the Curia to all

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaun View Post
    Arent they already, with the CdeC?
    nope, not even close........

    (not that I am in any way proposing or supporting full elections of citizens )
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