Page 1 of 9 123456789 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 169

Thread: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    Default Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    Given the level of chat and comments that you guys are good enough to send us, we are aware of the anticipation you guys have but we would consider it unforgiveable if we were to release a patch knowing that there are a number of potential issues with it.
    Again, I shake my head with a chuckle at the pc game industry, and indeed at almost all for-profit industries. My assumption is that SEGA rammed Medieval II onto store shelves last November in order to boost its fourth quarter profits for 2006, but whatever the reason, I would not doubt that everyone at CA and SEGA knew Medieval II had major bugs on the date of its release. Yet that did not stop them then.

    Interestingly enough, the presence of bugs seems to now warrant preventing the patch from being released prematurely. I for one won't argue against this decision at all; I am entirely in favor of a delay if it means a more polished product. However, one cannot fail to notice the sad hypocrisy of the business world, as well as the eternal wisdom of the old adage, "Talk is cheap."

    The problem I have personally is not so much that the bugs are absolutely game breaking (they only detract from the quality of game play in general), but that tendencies in the game industry are becoming more troubling all the time. Never minding the fact most things we buy are each day built less and less to last, or that warranties are increasingly more flimsy and hole-ridden, the general quality of a product we are expected to accept is steadily, albeit slowly, decreasing.

    Given how I feel about MTW2 and the obvious height of feeling surrounding the debate of whether or not to criticize CA or SEGA, I would offer a word of caution to anyone who is too quick to defend these companies. NEVER be eager to relinquish your right(or someone else's right) to complain, for that is our only recourse to obtain a higher standard in the products which are available to us. I for one do not wish to wake up one day and find that most games are released half-done, or, conversely, that we must wait a year after the release of a game for it to be patched to acceptable stability.

    It is my sincere opinion that there is no reason to defend CA or SEGA from any criticism we might wish to give them on these forums unless it really and legally threatens either company(i.e., libel or copyright infringement), or it seriously threatens the stability of TWC - and that last option is one I would highly question except in the most extreme cases because I hold the virtue of being able to freely voice one's thoughts in the greatest regard.

    The freedom to speak is the first and last defense against all injustice of any degree. We relinquish it at our own peril.

    Peace be with you.
    "...I consider myself as liable to mistakes as I can think thee, and know that this book must stand or fall with thee, not by any opinion I have of it, but thy own." -John Locke

    I may choose to knock on the door. I may choose to do nothing. I may choose to break the door down. I choose to knock.

    http://www.redcross.org/

    Ave! In Patronimicvm svb Imb39 . Thanks also to: Garbarsardar, Rhah, Tostig, and MadBurgerMaker.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    Eloquently put, to say the least. I do agree with you though. To release a terribly bugged game and then to hold onto a bugged patch.. well you're right, it just screams hypocrisy.

    As much as I love CA, if the patch was going to generate sales by itself, I'm sure it would have been out much sooner.

    Still though, you have to credit them for their communication and honesty with the community. They could have just went silent as soon as a bug was found and left us to wonder.. a lot of companies are like that but CA has at least the common decency to appreciate its community and let us know what is going on.

    I really don't mind, like you said, it's not so much CA but the industry and hell, the entire world that is headed in this sort of direction, and I think CA is handling it better than most. While they're deserving of criticism for this many delays and for releasing a bugged product to begin with, I'm still proud of their work ethic and communication with the community.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    You describe the for profit Information Technology industry in general. The gaming industry is one small part of this industry. All IT projects have 3 major constraints. These are Resources (primarily money), time, and quality. These decisions are invariably made by management. QUALITY ALWAYS LOSES OUT to the other major constraints at crunch time. That is reality in the for profit IT industry. The exceptions are when the developers make the decisions themselves (with or without management input). The only exceptions I am aware of to this are in the open source (including modders) community. You have only to look at the sad state of quality in the history of Microsoft's windows products

  4. #4

    Default Re: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    Its last time i buy CA/SEGA product!!!!!!!!! i hate to be treated this way , i bought a game wich is unplayable due to the amount of many bugs.

    What hapened today is totally unprofessional !!! not acceptable at all.

    Lusted came here to brag no sense , i bought a game that should be bug free and CA is not making me any favour.......

    The priority of 1st patch should be adress to clean important bugs such , Shield bug , formation coesion , 2 hand units bug ---> this 3 bugs are fast and easy to patch, but we still waiting after 5 months and someone told 1.2 patch didnt fix 2 hand bug lol.

    CA came here to tease us with the expansion when we still cant play MTW 2 correctly , this is so so stupid , all this delay now beacause they couldnt gives us hotseat mod when u can make it work right now moding files LOL.


    This is all so sad to be true , unprofessional and retard

  5. #5

    Default Re: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Cronos View Post
    Its last time i buy CA/SEGA product!!!!!!!!! i hate to be treated this way , i bought a game wich is unplayable due to the amount of many bugs.

    What hapened today is totally unprofessional !!! not acceptable at all.

    Lusted came here to brag no sense , i bought a game that should be bug free and CA is not making me any favour.......

    The priority of 1st patch should be adress to clean important bugs such , Shield bug , formation coesion , 2 hand units bug ---> this 3 bugs are fast and easy to patch, but we still waiting after 5 months and someone told 1.2 patch didnt fix 2 hand bug lol.

    CA came here to tease us with the expansion when we still cant play MTW 2 correctly , this is so so stupid , all this delay now beacause they couldnt gives us hotseat mod when u can make it work right now moding files LOL.


    This is all so sad to be true , unprofessional and retard
    rofl show me a bug free game and i will give you a million pounds. expecting to buy a bug free game is just a pipe dream in this day and age. was it bug free? no was it playable? yes. was it what YOU expected it to be? no... want to know why? cos nothing will be to expectations unless made yourself.

    why was the 1st patch so messed up? because it was rushed to be released due to people like you shouting and complaining how ****ed the game was. jesus christ the way some people go on about its as if its the end of the world

    patch 1.2 is being held back so that it has all the fixes that it says it will fix and that it wont mess up the game more then it should. and what happens??? omfg people are complaining again
    Last edited by God-Emperor of Mankind; April 05, 2007 at 01:34 PM.

  6. #6
    Yorkshireman's Avatar Praefectus
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Leeds, Yorkshire, England
    Posts
    6,232

    Default Re: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    Quote Originally Posted by sporkyness View Post
    rofl show me a bug free game and i will give you a million pounds. expecting to buy a bug free game is just a pipe dream in this day and age. was it bug free? no was it playable? yes. was it what YOU expected it to be? no... want to know why? cos nothing will be to expectations unless made yourself.

    why was the 1st patch so messed up? because it was rushed to be released due to people like you shouting and complaining how ****ed the game was. jesus christ the way some people go on about its as if its the end of the world

    patch 1.2 is being held back so that it has all the fixes that it says it will fix and that it wont mess up the game more then it should. and what happens??? omfg people are complaining again
    Is that the official SEGA customer care line? I hope your not their PR man!
    Last edited by Perikles; April 05, 2007 at 01:47 PM. Reason: continuity

  7. #7
    deRougemont's Avatar Yeoman
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    North Carolina, USA
    Posts
    2,539

    Default Re: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Yorkshireman View Post
    Is that the official SEGA customer care line? I hope your not their PR man!
    Everyone's frustrated, Yorkie. They are probably more frustrated than we are. Sure, they get paid for it, but after a while that doesn't even matter (speaking from experience here). I won't go bonkers unless support is dropped completely. I'm at peace knowing that the patch is being worked on. All in all, it's still a great game, despite my own personal frustration with it.






  8. #8
    Sosobra's Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Oregon , USA
    Posts
    2,240

    Default Re: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    Quote Originally Posted by sporkyness View Post
    rofl show me a bug free game and i will give you a million pounds. expecting to buy a bug free game is just a pipe dream in this day and age. was it bug free? no was it playable? yes. was it what YOU expected it to be? no... want to know why? cos nothing will be to expectations unless made yourself.

    why was the 1st patch so messed up? because it was rushed to be released due to people like you shouting and complaining how ****ed the game was. jesus christ the way some people go on about its as if its the end of the world

    patch 1.2 is being held back so that it has all the fixes that it says it will fix and that it wont mess up the game more then it should. and what happens??? omfg people are complaining again

    So its the consumers fault that CA released a buggey game and then followed it up with a very poor patch. Further more its our fault that CA cannot get its act together on this most recent patch and released a bugging version only to see the mistakes at the eleventh hour.

    Your line of logic is seriously flawed and its that kind of attitude that drives people away. CA and Sega need to reevaluate the way they do patches and test them because I for one am tired of getting jerked around.
    Last edited by Perikles; April 05, 2007 at 01:47 PM. Reason: continuity
    I find most people irritating
    SteamID:Sosobra

  9. #9
    Primicerius
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    60,11 N 24,55 E
    Posts
    3,575

    Default Re: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    Quote Originally Posted by sporkyness View Post
    rofl show me a bug free game and i will give you a million pounds. expecting to buy a bug free game is just a pipe dream in this day and age. was it bug free? no was it playable? yes. was it what YOU expected it to be? no... want to know why? cos nothing will be to expectations unless made yourself.

    why was the 1st patch so messed up? because it was rushed to be released due to people like you shouting and complaining how ****ed the game was. jesus christ the way some people go on about its as if its the end of the world

    patch 1.2 is being held back so that it has all the fixes that it says it will fix and that it wont mess up the game more then it should. and what happens??? omfg people are complaining again
    This is a classic post, dear god Sega once again shamelessly **** on their customers, I wonder why you get away with trolling and flaming while everyone who says something negative about Sega gets an infraction.
    Last edited by Perikles; April 05, 2007 at 01:52 PM. Reason: continuity

  10. #10
    Germanicus75's Avatar Domesticus
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Britannia
    Posts
    2,447

    Default Re: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Cronos View Post
    The priority of 1st patch should be adress to clean important bugs such , Shield bug , formation coesion , 2 hand units bug

    Agreed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cronos View Post
    CA came here to tease us with the expansion when we still cant play MTW 2 correctly

    Yup, I think it was probably unwise to proudly trumpet the expansion when the core game is not yet fully up to scratch (though still playable). It makes one ask questions about priorities and logical thinking. And the customer might start thinking his needs are not #1. But business is business at the end of the day.

    The rest of your comments I disagree with.
    Last edited by Germanicus75; April 05, 2007 at 01:09 PM.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Cronos View Post
    Its last time i buy CA/SEGA product!!!!!!!!! i hate to be treated this way , i bought a game wich is unplayable due to the amount of many bugs.

    What hapened today is totally unprofessional !!! not acceptable at all.

    Lusted came here to brag no sense , i bought a game that should be bug free and CA is not making me any favour.......

    The priority of 1st patch should be adress to clean important bugs such , Shield bug , formation coesion , 2 hand units bug ---> this 3 bugs are fast and easy to patch, but we still waiting after 5 months and someone told 1.2 patch didnt fix 2 hand bug lol.

    CA came here to tease us with the expansion when we still cant play MTW 2 correctly , this is so so stupid , all this delay now beacause they couldnt gives us hotseat mod when u can make it work right now moding files LOL.


    This is all so sad to be true , unprofessional and retard
    mate, you must remeber. Its a game, its not the end of the world mate, like.. go out have a drink at the pub or something I mean are you really that anxious to threaten your al-mighty "40 dollars" to CA because they delayed a patch.

    I mean I'd like to see it out, but no need to have a temper tantrum becuase it didn;t come out, we all make mistakes, you, me and CA, I mean comon now, the patch didn't come out, it might take another day, oh my god, the worlds coming to an end. Cry me a ****ing river.


  12. #12

    Default Re: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Brenil View Post
    Fred purchases a brand new 2008 Supercar 1000 from his local dealership. During his drive home he notices his radio only picks up AM radio stations. While disappointed that his brand new sportscard doesn't work properly, he's still happy with the overall product and thinks nothing of it.

    ...
    I'm just baffled in how people can compare a purchase of a game of about 50,00€ to a brand new car of, let's not exagerate, 20.000,00€

    If my car is broken due to the manufactures fault, and I have an accident, it can cost me my life.

    If my game is broken, due to the developer/publishers fault, the worst thing that can happen is, I have to throw it away.

    How on earth can you compare them, sorry Brenil, but, that doesn't make any sense

  13. #13
    Lusted's Avatar Look to the stars
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Brighton, Sussex, England.
    Posts
    18,184

    Default Re: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    The priority of 1st patch should be adress to clean important bugs such , Shield bug , formation coesion , 2 hand units bug ---> this 3 bugs are fast and easy to patch, but we still waiting after 5 months and someone told 1.2 patch didnt fix 2 hand bug lol.
    You just disqualified yourself for ever commenting on any bugs with the bolded sentence. The shield bug is easy to fix, but was not know about until a month after 1.1 was out. The 2 handed bug is not as it requires new animations, which are not quick or easy to do. Formation cohesion likewise as it's a fine balance.

    CA do not have a magic button called "FIX IT", bug fixing takes time and effort.

    My own thoughts:

    It was not good for the game to be published in the state it was with major bugs. But unfortunatley with the way the Pc Gaming industry works, it's profits first, quality second.

    It is good however that CA are continuing to patch the product and fix the bugs, even if they shouldn't have been in the game in the first place. The size of patch 1.2, is both a testament to how many bugs the game has, and CA's efforts to fix them.

    It's also good that SEGA have informed us why patch 1.2 was delayed(looks like some sort of file corruption during transfer from CA to sEGA), and keep us updated.
    Creator of:
    Lands to Conquer Gold for Medieval II: Kingdoms
    Terrae Expugnandae Gold Open Beta for RTW 1.5
    Proud ex-Moderator and ex-Administrator of TWC from Jan 06 to June 07
    Awarded the Rank of Opifex for outstanding contributions to the TW mod community.
    Awarded the Rank of Divus for oustanding work during my times as Administrator.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    Despite everyone's claims to stop buying, the sales numbers keep going up on this line of games...

    I agree with the opinion of the general shoddiness of the release and the underlying game quality... but I doubt CA will ever change... it's been far too long; their track record is set.

    And the shield bug is easy to fix? For CA I assume you mean, because the mod fix is NOT a working fix it is a *work around* fix.

    Ebullient Princesses! Titles! Bloodlines! Bastard Traitors!
    So much fun in one little BBB package! Get yours today!

  15. #15

    Default Re: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    It was not good for the game to be published in the state it was with major bugs. But unfortunatley with the way the Pc Gaming industry works, it's profits first, quality second.

    Pc gaming industrie would be so bad if they ddo like CA /sega lst release game .


    I bought Europa Uiversalis --> Game working pretty fine bug free , already good and fast patch .

    ChampionshipManager 2007 -> same

    Company of Heroes _> same

    World of Warcraft ->> best quality and supoort


    NOW

    Medieval Total war 2 ->> Very very bugy unfinish game , unprofessional suport , 5 months to fix basic BUGS.

    Lusted that are my recent buy games facts , Profit 1st aint working for me again with Sega /CA , they will learn how is to treat clients with no respect.

  16. #16
    Shazbot's Avatar grant woodgrain grippin
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Eugene, Oregon
    Posts
    2,241

    Default Re: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Cronos View Post
    Pc gaming industrie would be so bad if they ddo like CA /sega lst release game .


    I bought Europa Uiversalis --> Game working pretty fine bug free , already good and fast patch .

    ChampionshipManager 2007 -> same

    Company of Heroes _> same

    World of Warcraft ->> best quality and supoort


    NOW

    Medieval Total war 2 ->> Very very bugy unfinish game , unprofessional suport , 5 months to fix basic BUGS.

    Lusted that are my recent buy games facts , Profit 1st aint working for me again with Sega /CA , they will learn how is to treat clients with no respect.
    The PC Gaming industry has almost always been about profits intead of quality. There a few that would place quality before profits, but those games usually don't sell well, as it usually has bad advertising or it's just released at a bad time. Most major companies (EA, SEGA ect) do use the profits>qauality anyway, but their games always fly right off the shelves. Secondlly, none of those game you listed are bug free. If they were, they wouldn't have patches, which all of them do.

    And sporkyness:

    Quote Originally Posted by Shazbot View Post
    Lol,

    Community: We don't want another rushed patch like 1.1 was.
    CA: Alright, we need to iron out everything, so you'll get the patch in a few weeks.
    Community: WTF CA/SEGA is teh Suxx0rs! We needz teh P4TCH!
    I figured that stuff out a long time ago.
    Last edited by Shazbot; April 05, 2007 at 01:34 PM.

  17. #17

    Default Re: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Cronos View Post
    World of Warcraft ->> best quality and supoort
    I don't want to take the time and read the entire thread to see if someone corrected this egregious mistake. Sure the game is patched all the time, but WoW has always been shaky in terms of server stability and overall quality.

  18. #18
    Simetrical's Avatar Former Chief Technician
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    θ = π/0.6293, φ = π/1.293, ρ = 6,360 km
    Posts
    20,154

    Default Re: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    Quote Originally Posted by edders View Post
    You're obviously frustrated by the anger directed at both CA itself and all the SEGA personnel connected to it, but let's not forget one important thing: We paid for this product and expect it to be up to a certain standard.
    Oh, come on. When you paid for the game, did you expect it to be bug-free? There would be no reasonable way for you to expect that. SEGA and CA don't have to live up to your ideals. But even if you did have reason to expect that, you were given demos that exhibited most if not all of the bugs that you now find so terrible. You went in to this completely informed. Don't try to say you were defrauded. CA had every right to release a steaming pile of trash (which M2TW is not) for $50 if they pleased, and if you bought it without consulting reviews, then it would be entirely your fault that you wasted the money.
    Quote Originally Posted by edders View Post
    All I'm saying is that nobody at CA should be suprised at our response. When you fail to deliver, no matter how you try to handle the situation - be it with regular updates and timetables or a simple "done when it's done" attitude - people are going to be dissapointed in your company.
    Indeed, they should not be surprised that a vocal minority complains about the bugs endlessly, while the large majority of more casual gamers don't notice, or if they do, don't care. That's how it generally works for mainstream games. I'm just guessing here, mind you, but one thing SEGA is not is stupid, and you can bet whatever you like that they do enough market research to be sure that they're probably taking the best route.

    The fact is, more than likely most people care more about devs spending time adding flashy new special effects than balancing the game (because they probably aren't very dedicated or skilled anyway, and either play on easy or may as well — I'm sure most here can agree that even the harder difficulty levels are little challenge to a good player). So that's what they do. Yes, no one should be surprised that you can't please everyone. But to those who complain, remember that you weren't defrauded, and that you're in a minority for caring much about basic functionality like weapons actually behaving remotely as expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brenil View Post
    Was Medieval 2 finished? 11,000 bugs after the first patch, 5-6 major (almost game-breaking to some), some would consider that an unfinished beta they paid fifty dollars for.
    Again, that's ridiculous. It's not perfect. But it's finished, literally, in the sense of "not much more work is being done on it". It's a finished product by the standards of computer gaming. It's moderately buggy but still enjoyable.
    Quote Originally Posted by Brenil View Post
    The main point is and I hope developers (and more importantly publishers since they're the ones usually pushing for unfinished releases) understand is that this is one of the very few industries that they can get away (for now) with releasing unfinished products and still making a profit.
    Not at all. That's nonsense. All cheap recreations are like that: toys will break regularly, novels are poorly written and not always properly proofread, amusement parks may have long lines or rides that (safely) break down, and so on. That's because they're cheap, so we aren't paying for a high degree of quality; and they're recreational, so failings in pretty much any aspect can typically leave them able to achieve their purpose, i.e., to entertain.

    Tell me how many hours you've played M2TW, and then tell me with a straight face that you didn't enjoy it. Divide $50 by the number of hours you spent playing it and tell me that that isn't a fair price for an enjoyable but slightly flawed experience.

    Your car analogy is absurd. The car breaks down, which M2TW does not. Yes, it may crash, but it only takes a few minutes to restart it and play from more or less where you left off, and those crashes are very rare for most people. It's absolutely playable, and serves its purpose. Your car does not. What's more, the sports car is probably a necessity, not recreational (in that the owner may not have any other cars); and it probably costs $50,000, three orders of magnitude more than $50. The analogy is utterly false.

    Nothing in the game is broken. Nothing is flawed. Nothing demands a refund of your money. You knew the state of the game before you bought it, you did so willingly, and you have no grounds for saying that you deserve more than you knew you were getting when you put down the money. And that goes to everyone who's complaining. There's nothing wrong with constructive criticism, but saying you deserve better is nonsense.

    Oh, and by the way . . . I didn't buy the game. Why? Because I read a review that said it was basically RTW with prettier graphics and a different setting, and decided there was no point in buying it. Simple as that.
    Quote Originally Posted by xxax View Post
    And why is Sega the evil one and CA the good one?
    Because SEGA is a faceless corporation. The devs are the ones we have contact with, both directly and indirectly (e.g., interviews we read). Therefore, we sympathize with devs, as the more familiar figures, and feel inclined to blame the faceless suits. As I've said, it's not quite fair to SEGA. If CA wanted to, they could probably have spent more of their time fixing bugs rather than adding features during initial development (and then perhaps have added some extra features in the patches, as some companies are wont to do).
    Quote Originally Posted by xxax View Post
    Like the devs care if it's broken... They don't get paid based on the sales...
    Oh, come on. You think SEGA doesn't give its successful development branches more money and disband its unsuccessful ones?
    Quote Originally Posted by Turbo View Post
    There is no question that CA is supporting their games better than when under Activision. They need however to improve their turnaround on the patches. It should not take 3-4 months to issue a patch.
    Depends on how much they put in the patch. They only have limited manpower, you know, and most of that has to work on the expansion and the next game in the series.
    Quote Originally Posted by dearmad View Post
    Exaggerated. What they count as bugs is each incident of a number that is wrong in the unit file, for example: so, 400 units? Each with the shield number somehow wrong... = 400 "bugs," not one big bug as a normal person might think about it... 8000 trees need to be lowered on the tactical maps so they don't stick up too much? = 8000 "bugs."
    I very much doubt that. I am, as I have said, something of a programmer myself, although in a rather different field (I'm a developer of MediaWiki, the software that powers Wikipedia). Nowadays projects of any size have a bug tracker, which appropriate people can file bugs in for centralized handling. 11,000 is undoubtedly the number of bugs filed in the internal tracker, which sporkyness will as a beta tester presumably have access to. Separate bugs are not filed for essentially the same thing, because that makes no sense. Rather, it's probable that a fair number take forms like "When playing as faction X under conditions Y, I have a consistent crash when I do Z, saved game attached, unable to reproduce otherwise" or "When clicking button A while simultaneously hitting Escape part of the display becomes distorted until I Alt-Tab out" or whatever.

    I would be interested in hearing more details from sporkyness, anyway, if it doesn't violate his NDA.
    MediaWiki developer, TWC Chief Technician
    NetHack player (nao info)


    Risen from Prey

  19. #19
    edders's Avatar Senator
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Around the world
    Posts
    1,397

    Default Re: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    Quote Originally Posted by Simetrical View Post
    Oh, come on. When you paid for the game, did you expect it to be bug-free? There would be no reasonable way for you to expect that. SEGA and CA don't have to live up to your ideals. But even if you did have reason to expect that, you were given demos that exhibited most if not all of the bugs that you now find so terrible. You went in to this completely informed. Don't try to say you were defrauded. CA had every right to release a steaming pile of trash (which M2TW is not) for $50 if they pleased, and if you bought it without consulting reviews, then it would be entirely your fault that you wasted the money.

    Indeed, they should not be surprised that a vocal minority complains about the bugs endlessly, while the large majority of more casual gamers don't notice, or if they do, don't care. That's how it generally works for mainstream games. I'm just guessing here, mind you, but one thing SEGA is not is stupid, and you can bet whatever you like that they do enough market research to be sure that they're probably taking the best route.


    I would be interested in hearing more details from sporkyness, anyway, if it doesn't violate his NDA.
    Jeez Sim I was trying to give the most balanced criticism I could and you go Angel-of-Death on me. You launch into nonsensical straw-men arguments like:

    "When you paid for the game, did you expect it to be bug-free? There would be no reasonable way for you to expect that. SEGA and CA don't have to live up to your ideals. But even if you did have reason to expect that, you were given demos that exhibited most if not all of the bugs that you now find so terrible"

    I never said, ANYWHERE, that we should expect a game to be completely bug free. I said "a certain standard", and I (and obviously the "vocal minority that complains about bugs endlessly") did not think MTW2 to be at that standard, hence I expected CA or SEGA to ensure it was brought up to that point as speedily as possible.

    Then you go "Don't try to say you were defrauded". Oh well that's handy, because I never said ANYTHING OF THE KIND. If I thought it wasn't worth my money and I was 'defrauded' I wouldn't be looking for patches, I'd be looking for a refund.

    And how exactly could the demos have warned me that every time I fought a battle involving elephants (which for Eastern Factions would be pretty much the entire Late Period of their campaign) my game would CTD?! Or that armies not controlled by numerous elaborate script commands would sit on their behinds until carefully prodded into action? Or that almost every single unit using the botched 2h animation would be completely and utterly useless against cavalry on the battle map?

    "CA had every right to release a steaming pile of trash (which M2TW is not) for $50 if they pleased, and if you bought it without consulting reviews, then it would be entirely your fault that you wasted the money."

    I don't even have a clue what you're getting at here. Did CA tell everyone beforehand about all these bugs? No. Did they try to fix them? Yes. Did I wait at least four or five months for the final major bugs to be eliminated? Yes.

    "I would be interested in hearing more details from sporkyness, anyway, if it doesn't violate his NDA."

    Perhaps a good start would be to read the post he made immediately after mine, eh? You know, the one where he acknowledges exactly what I said? He notes that we can look forward to extra features with each patch. He does not say, which you do: 'Bah, you paid for it, you don't deserve any extra from CA?

    Maybe when you're even more aggressive at defending the game than the testers you should look back at your own arguments and consider whether you're just being stubborn. It's one thing to cut CA some slack, it's another to argue CA havn't actually done anything wrong by releasing MTW2 at the standard it was.

    No offense but frankly, I find it highly irritating that someone who hasn't even paid for or played the game thinks he can lecture me on whether the game was bugged to an unreasonable standard or not.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Patch 2 and whether to critique SEGA/CA

    @cronos

    Uhhhh, there are a hell of a lot of games out there and you could only come up with 4 good ones?The industry IS *profit before quality*.Just because you can name 4 games without bugs doesn't mean that the rest of the industry is the same way .Ubisoft and EA are two companies that come to mind and they are two of the biggest/well known game companies in existence....you know why?They release less than perfect(lol) products and gain a tremendous profit, the games are usually buggy but they make so much money that they can support multiple games and dev teams at a time...EA is a household name for sure.If the gaming industry is so good at making quality products then why do these companies exist and why the hell are they so well known?

    WoW has to have support because its a MMORPG.Without support the game would have died long ago (too bad it didn't) due to lack of quests and whatever the hell they add when they patch it, plus they update it constantly so they can eventually sell you an expansion like all other companies.

    CoH is no where near as complicated when it comes to gameplay (which is where most of M2's bugs are) and is no where near as epic so there is less work on gameplay more work on graphics and stuff......a fun game no doubt but not even close IMO and it is currently on 1.51 so it has been patched quite a few times.It may have been released with a higher quality but that is because the publisher allowed Relic to get it working properly before release.

    Europa Universalis I have yet to play but I am pretty sure that it's publisher wasn't EA or some other unholy company.I am willing to bet that both the devs and publishers worked together and wanted as many sales as possible so they made sure it was high quality.

    Haven't heard of or played championship manager so you got me there .

    So it really all boils down to the publisher and their cooperation or lack there of with the devs.I agree with the TC but I think we should be focusing on the next release since this one is already out and the damage is done.They are patching it so that is good.Look towards future games (not the expansion because it's probably already been compromised).We need to spam SEGA and tell them that we don't care about their year end quarter, we are the consumers and we call the shots (hell, we give them our money...why not), give CA some slack on the release date and don't announce the date until you know the game is going to be top quality.If you hate profit over quality then don't buy a game published by a company bent on making a profit (that's what companies do).

    You want bug free strategy games you just named 2 go play those, if you think M2 is crap why are you even here?Just don't buy anymore games from CA and sega....problem solved.Not a personal attack but it really bugs me when people come here to rant about the game when all they have to do is not play it .It is too bad that you spent $50 and weren't satisfied but there were 2 demos that displayed M2TW in all it's buggy glory, plus $50 is what....a little more than a days worth of work at even the lowest wage? (assuming you get a legal wage and you aren't some migrant worker......then again if you were one you probably wouldn't have a PC and a video game would be the least of your worries)
    Last edited by skullman86; April 06, 2007 at 08:07 PM.

Page 1 of 9 123456789 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •