Page 1 of 13 1234567891011 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 244

Thread: Scythians

Hybrid View

Previous Post Previous Post   Next Post Next Post
  1. #1

    Default Scythians

    Later History of the Third Scythian Kingdom of Scythian Neapolis.
    (courtesy of Wikipedia and various other places)

    The enmity of the Third Scythian Kingdom, centred on Scythian Neapolis, towards the Greek settlements of the northern Black Sea steadily increased. The Scythian king apparently regarded the Greek colonies as unnecessary intermediaries in the wheat trade with mainland Greece. Besides, the settling cattlemen were attracted by the Greek agricultural belt in Southern Crimea. The later Scythia was both culturally and socio-economically far less advanced than its Greek neighbors such as Olvia or Chersonesos.
    The continuity of the royal line is less clear in the Lesser Scythias of Crimea and Thrace than it had been previously. In the second century BC, Olvia became a Scythian dependency. That event was marked in the city by minting of coins bearing the name of the Scythian king Skilurus. He was a son of a king and a father of a king, but the relation of his dynasty with the former dynasty is not known. Either Skilurus or his son and successor Palakus were buried in the mausoleum of Scythian Neapol that was used from ca. 100 B.C. to ca. 100 AD. However, the last burials are so poor that they do not seem to be royal, indicating a change in the dynasty or royal burials in another place.
    Later, at the end of the second century BC, Olvia was freed from the Scythian domination, but became a subject to Mithradates the Great. By the end of the first century BC, Olbia, rebuilt after its sack by the Getae, became a dependency of the Dacian barbarian kings, who minted their own coins in the city. Later from the second century AD Olbia belonged to the Roman Empire. Scythia was the first state north of the Black Sea to collapse with the invasion of the Goths in the 2nd century AD (see Oium).

    Main Kings
    Skilurus
    Skilurus or Scylurus was the best known king of Scythia in the 2nd century BC. He was the son of a king and the father of a king, but the relation of his dynasty to the previous one is disputed. His realm included the lower reaches of the Borysthenes and Hypanis, as well as the northern part of Crimea, where his capital, Scythian Neapolis, was situated.
    Skilurus ruled over the Tauri and controlled the ancient trade emporium of Pontic Olbia, where he minted coins. In order to gain advantage against Chersonesos, he allied himself with the Sarmatian tribe of Rhoxolani. In response, Chersonesos forged an alliance with Mithridates VI of Pontus. Skilurus died during a war against Mithridates, a decisive conflict for supremacy in the Pontic steppe. Soon after his death, the Scythians were defeated by Mithridates (ca. 108 BC). Either Skilurus or his son and successor Palacus were buried in a mausoleum at Scythian Neapolis; it was used from ca. 100 BC to ca. 100 AD.
    Plutarch, in Sayings of Kings and Commanders, reports the following anecdote: "Scilurus on his death-bed, being about to leave eighty sons surviving, offered a bundle of darts to each of them, and bade them break them. When all refused, drawing out one by one, he easily broke them; thus teaching them that, if they held together, they would continue strong, but if they fell out and were divided, they would become weak."[1]
    Palakus
    Palacus or Palakus was the king of a Scythian realm whose capital was based at Scythian Neapolis on the Crimea in the late 2nd century BC.
    He succeeded his father, Skilurus, and resumed his war against Mithridates the Great, attempting to capture the wealthy western Crimean city-state of Chersonesos but was defeated by Mithridates' Pontic forces under his general Diophantos. Enlisting the assistance of the Rhoxolani under their king, Tasius, Palacus launched a renewed assault on western Crimea, only to be defeated again in pitched battle by Diophantos. Soon after these events which can be dated to c.110–107 BC, most of the cities of Crimea accepted Mithridates as overlord.
    Palacus was the last Scythian king attested in classical sources. His mausoleum has been tentatively identified in Scythian Neapolis.
    Units Disctinctive from Sarmatians
    Scythian Nobles
    Scythian Mounted Nobles
    Regular Scythian Spear armed cavalry
    Scythian Dismounted Archer
    Under the patronage of John I Tzimisces

  2. #2

    Default Re: Scythians

    Drtad,
    Nice pictures - they look like they'd be fun to model, but are those still accurate for our time period? Quite a few are 4-5th C BC.


    Under patronage of Spirit of Rob; Patron of Century X, Pacco, Cherryfunk, Leif Erikson.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Scythians

    Quote Originally Posted by tone View Post
    Drtad,
    Nice pictures - they look like they'd be fun to model, but are those still accurate for our time period? Quite a few are 4-5th C BC.
    Probably. The steppe people didn't really change their traditions much. I think tht Antiochus IV (Epiphanes) would be the expert for the steppe tribes, including Scythia. I'd saythat farther up the tree the Scythians should get access to more dismounted Scythian units and Greek hoplites as well since they began to settle down near Scythian Neapolis.
    Under the patronage of John I Tzimisces

  4. #4
    DR. Hobo. PHD.'s Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    NC USA
    Posts
    1,682

    Default Re: Scythians

    Quote Originally Posted by Drtad View Post
    Probably. The steppe people didn't really change their traditions much. I think tht Antiochus IV (Epiphanes) would be the expert for the steppe tribes, including Scythia. I'd saythat farther up the tree the Scythians should get access to more dismounted Scythian units and Greek hoplites as well since they began to settle down near Scythian Neapolis.
    thats correct, the scythians did settle down after a while, but they still retained that mobile armored/archery arm till the end. illl draft a unit list tonight for you guys to give you an idea of what they had.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Scythians

    That's good news...I love the colours and the armour shapes.


    Under patronage of Spirit of Rob; Patron of Century X, Pacco, Cherryfunk, Leif Erikson.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Scythians

    There's also these ones Cherryfunk uploaded:



    Under patronage of Spirit of Rob; Patron of Century X, Pacco, Cherryfunk, Leif Erikson.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Scythians

    This is great, having you guys (Drtad and antiochus) who are into the steppe nations makes me very happy! I've always known that the vanilla game totally sucked when it came to the Sarmatians, and having played the Invasio Barborum mod as the Huns, I can tell you that a good horse nation faction is a blast to play -- this really is going to be a huge improvement not only for RS, but for all RTW mods -- especially combined with the Bosporans.

    So one thing I'm curious about; were the Skythians a Caucasian people (pale, blonde), and the Sarmatians more of an eastern people (olive skin, black hair)? That would be one way to distinguish them from each other.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Scythians

    Quote Originally Posted by cherryfunk View Post
    This is great, having you guys (Drtad and antiochus) who are into the steppe nations makes me very happy! I've always known that the vanilla game totally sucked when it came to the Sarmatians, and having played the Invasio Barborum mod as the Huns, I can tell you that a good horse nation faction is a blast to play -- this really is going to be a huge improvement not only for RS, but for all RTW mods -- especially combined with the Bosporans.

    So one thing I'm curious about; were the Skythians a Caucasian people (pale, blonde), and the Sarmatians more of an eastern people (olive skin, black hair)? That would be one way to distinguish them from each other.
    I like the steppe factions (escpecially Scythia) but I am definitely not an expert. About the Scythians being blonde mostly, I'd have to agree. Around 590, the Urartian Kingdom of Armenia was falling apart after the Cimmerian invasions. It had just defeated the Assyrians who were sieging the capital, Tushpa, and it had no more strength left in it. The Urartian Armenians were very fair (blonde, light, like me , etc.). So, in a timely manner, along came the Scythians, swooping downfrom the steppes, grabbed Urartu like a vulture and tore it apart. The Scythians settled down in the area +Media where they essentially vassalized the Medes. The Scythians probably mixed in with the native Urartian Armenians and thus became fair themselves before they were driven out. Remember, this is all speculation, Antiochus is the expert (I assume).
    Under the patronage of John I Tzimisces

  9. #9

    Default Re: Scythians

    So where did the Sarmatians come from? I've read that they were Iranian in origin, but I'm not sure what that means. Were they related to the Parthians? Or were they more Hun-like, from farther east?

  10. #10
    DR. Hobo. PHD.'s Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    NC USA
    Posts
    1,682

    Default Re: Scythians

    Quote Originally Posted by cherryfunk View Post
    So where did the Sarmatians come from? I've read that they were Iranian in origin, but I'm not sure what that means. Were they related to the Parthians? Or were they more Hun-like, from farther east?
    most scientist tend to set the sarmatians as indo iranian, and the scythians as indo european.
    sarmatians appear in history as a small tribe of steppe warriors who originated from the dahae area,(not to say they are dahae, but related)
    also the scythians would be blonde hair, and the sarmatians to an extent as well, although id say black would be better for the sarmatians

  11. #11

    Default Re: Scythians

    also the scythians would be blonde hair, and the sarmatians to an extent as well, although id say black would be better for the sarmatians
    Yes I agree, it would be better to distinguish them by having the Skythians blonde and the Sarmatians with dark hair.

  12. #12
    dvk901's Avatar Consummatum est
    Patrician

    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    20,984

    Default Re: Scythians

    I LOVE the headgear in that second picture down from the top! Boy it would be neat to duplicate that!

    Creator of: "Ecce, Roma Surrectum....Behold, Rome Arises!"
    R.I.P. My Beloved Father

  13. #13

    Default Re: Scythians

    Quote Originally Posted by dvk901 View Post
    I LOVE the headgear in that second picture down from the top! Boy it would be neat to duplicate that!
    Yeah, those really look great. Maybe it could be the general's bodyguard cavalry?

    Scythia's campaign position:

    I think that Scythia should start with Scythian Neapolis (minor city) as capital, and with the settlement north of them being a large town. Scythia should have a large army ready to take Olbia, which they did historically, a large army to take Panticpaeum from the Bosporans, whom they crippled but didn't take historically, and they should have a medium army ready to take Chersonesos, which they didn't take or cripple historically.
    Under the patronage of John I Tzimisces

  14. #14

    Default Re: Scythians

    There are 3 models here I'd love to do:

    The guy on the left:


    The guy on the right:


    The guy on the left:


    You on for skinning them AE? How would the Sarmatians differ and would we need to do a multimodel thing like with Parthian / Armenian cataphract?


    Under patronage of Spirit of Rob; Patron of Century X, Pacco, Cherryfunk, Leif Erikson.

  15. #15
    DR. Hobo. PHD.'s Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    NC USA
    Posts
    1,682

    Default Re: Scythians

    tbh, the sarmatians we could have a 90% done faction if you guys got permission to use RTR 6.0 models...
    i will draw a unit list up tonight guys if you dont mind, i think it would be an intersesting faction to play as now.

  16. #16

    Default Re: Scythians

    Great, go ahead. How would you feel about asking RTR? - we did have permission to use their Bactrians but we obviously won't be needing them now. Or shall I ask?


    Under patronage of Spirit of Rob; Patron of Century X, Pacco, Cherryfunk, Leif Erikson.

  17. #17
    DR. Hobo. PHD.'s Avatar Campidoctor
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    NC USA
    Posts
    1,682

    Default Re: Scythians

    Quote Originally Posted by tone View Post
    Great, go ahead. How would you feel about asking RTR? - we did have permission to use their Bactrians but we obviously won't be needing them now. Or shall I ask?
    it would be better if you asked if you know what i mean seriously it would....

  18. #18

    Default Re: Scythians

    Here's an Osprey pic of a Getic nobleman (on the left), but he definitely seems to have Skythian influences. I love the shoulder armor:



    The guy on the right might make a good Skythian unarmored horse archer (I think we should give the Skythians an unarmored and an armored horse archer).



  19. #19

    Default Re: Scythians

    Just in the process of asking RTR for their Sarmatian models (instead of Bactria which we had permission for previously)


    Under patronage of Spirit of Rob; Patron of Century X, Pacco, Cherryfunk, Leif Erikson.

  20. #20

    Default Re: Scythians

    We have permission form RTR to use their Sarmatian units/models - I forgot to say this.


    Under patronage of Spirit of Rob; Patron of Century X, Pacco, Cherryfunk, Leif Erikson.

Page 1 of 13 1234567891011 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •