Difficulty Poll for v1.9 Beta 7

[tornnight]

How difficult is the economy in v1.9 Beta 7?

[Phil Stanbridge]

I voted "a little too difficult" - it's actually more like in between a little too and impossible The only way you can successfully fund an attacking army is to raid - and I'm not entirely sure how realistic this is considered.

But it's a step in the right direction - maybe you could lower upkeep/recruitment costs and keep the other things the same?

[Irishmafia2020]

Maybe a bit easier would be nice... not to rich though, as that takes away the challenge!

[Irishmafia2020]

I liked Beta 5's economy... that was about perfect...

[tornnight]

Well there weren't too many standing armies in the time period we start in.

Regardless, I do believe it's too difficult right now. I agree that modifying the upkeep costs will be what I change.

[tornnight]

I agree Beta 5's economy was just where I wanted it. Except some of the values in the trade screens were messed up. There were also a few other changes that affected the economy.

I'll be trying to emulate Beta 5 a bit more closely.

[Creslin]

I kinda like how it is now, I always thought it was to easy to keep and army up and have multiply stacks going all the time. Way it was makes it alot less likely that you can conquer the entire world in the first 100 yrs and makes you actually pay attention to having a limited supply of troops. Maybe the incomes should be increased a little to make it easier to build buildings but I dont think upkeep should be changed since its the real limiting factor on how fast your empire can expand.

[super-panda]

True it's quite too expensive for the generals, I think that a maximum of 500$ is a max, because if your royal family is high, you will maybe pay really high for memebers that will not fight often. The really low units are too much too, i don't think the peasants where payed that much for going fight, it's need to be 200, not more, there were the worst fighters, so the upkeep must be same, it's same for the scouts, they are too too high for their possibilities. The strong units may maybe cost more than is the normal game, but not that much for the weaks units, it's totally too much. The main thing that make that you have money really easily in the normal game is that you can take ennemies settlement really easly, so i think the main thing to update is the artificial intelligence ( and it's going in the god way, i'm playing in very hard and it's often challenging into battles) but i think it should be again updated to be a challenge in hard level, and that players don't have to play laways in very hard to have a normal game. Mainly the upkeep is far too high for much of the units, i think that with a again better intelligence, it will be harder to conquer, so you will need to have stronger armies and more tactics to won, it will make money more hard to get.

[infernocanuck]

It's difficult, but not impossible. However, my main concerns are the general's upkeep and the starting armies. Upkeep for generals and family members are too high, in my opinion. Plus, now with the new family trees, some factions will be flooded with male relatives in about 20 turns. It seriously hurts the economy. Right now, in order for me to be economically viable, I have to send a -ton- of sons alone to rebel settlements to get slaughtered (makes me wish for a "kill_character" command in the in-game console)

Also, because of the large upkeep costs (which by themselves isn't all that bad. I almost prefer it, because a battle really means something significant. If your main army gets wiped out, there is no hulking 2 stack army behind you) starting armies are far too large and expensive. Every new camaign I start, I have to dismiss about 70% of my army, and then rebuild slowly. I don't horribly mind this, but it is somethiing that could be lessened by just not giving each faction any more troops then they can reasonably sustain.

What could prove interesting is starting every faction out with militias inside cities, and have the player build up the army they want from the beggining, over the course of 10 turns or so. I don't know how feasible this is though. Just a simple suggestion!

[tornnight]

True it's quite too expensive for the generals, I think that a maximum of 500$ is a max, because if your royal family is high, you will maybe pay really high for memebers that will not fight often. The really low units are too much too, i don't think the peasants where payed that much for going fight, it's need to be 200, not more, there were the worst fighters, so the upkeep must be same, it's same for the scouts, they are too too high for their possibilities. The strong units may maybe cost more than is the normal game, but not that much for the weaks units, it's totally too much. The main thing that make that you have money really easily in the normal game is that you can take ennemies settlement really easly, so i think the main thing to update is the artificial intelligence ( and it's going in the god way, i'm playing in very hard and it's often challenging into battles) but i think it should be again updated to be a challenge in hard level, and that players don't have to play laways in very hard to have a normal game. Mainly the upkeep is far too high for much of the units, i think that with a again better intelligence, it will be harder to conquer, so you will need to have stronger armies and more tactics to won, it will make money more hard to get.

I wish. There isn't much more I can do to improve the AI. Perhaps Patch 1.2 will improve it.

It better improve it. :mad:

It's difficult, but not impossible. However, my main concerns are the general's upkeep and the starting armies. Upkeep for generals and family members are too high, in my opinion. Plus, now with the new family trees, some factions will be flooded with male relatives in about 20 turns. It seriously hurts the economy. Right now, in order for me to be economically viable, I have to send a -ton- of sons alone to rebel settlements to get slaughtered (makes me wish for a "kill_character" command in the in-game console)

Also, because of the large upkeep costs (which by themselves isn't all that bad. I almost prefer it, because a battle really means something significant. If your main army gets wiped out, there is no hulking 2 stack army behind you) starting armies are far too large and expensive. Every new camaign I start, I have to dismiss about 70% of my army, and then rebuild slowly. I don't horribly mind this, but it is somethiing that could be lessened by just not giving each faction any more troops then they can reasonably sustain.

What could prove interesting is starting every faction out with militias inside cities, and have the player build up the army they want from the beggining, over the course of 10 turns or so. I don't know how feasible this is though. Just a simple suggestion!

Thats an excellent suggestion!!!!! I love it.

[ciciocle]

Also, because of the large upkeep costs (which by themselves isn't all that bad. I almost prefer it, because a battle really means something significant. If your main army gets wiped out, there is no hulking 2 stack army behind you) starting armies are far too large and expensive. Every new camaign I start, I have to dismiss about 70% of my army, and then rebuild slowly. I don't horribly mind this, but it is somethiing that could be lessened by just not giving each faction any more troops then they can reasonably sustain.

What could prove interesting is starting every faction out with militias inside cities, and have the player build up the army they want from the beggining, over the course of 10 turns or so.

If I may say something, i don't think this is a good ideea...Most human player would be temted to gather all of their militia, from every settlment (because loyalty is high on TLR) and storm AI castles and towns, poorly defended by a couple of milita units...I know I would

[Hissing Fauna]

I agree that having a large standing army throughout the game doesn't make to much sense. I don't know if it could be implemented, but I've been thinking of how to make the loss of a large army more damaging, since right now, if you do lose an army, you can still rebuild it without much trouble. Maybe, the game could keep track of what region a unit comes from. If that unit is destroyed in battle, then the public order of that region will suffer a drop. Not only would this force the player to gather troops from other regions, but it would mean that losing a major battle could be potentially diastorous.

Of course, this could be an even bigger problem for the AI, so maybe you could limit it so it only effects the player.

*shrug* I don't know if its possible, but it would add a new level to the game.

[Kanaric]

I think its perfect, I like more of a challenge. After a while though i've been gaining more than enough money so i think if its made easier it should only be made so early game, later in the game it seems to be fine.

[Marku]

i agree the economy is tough as it is, when might beta 8 be released ??

[Speedy2511]

Hello

I think the difficult economy breaks the AI a little bit, because the AI can not handle the economy like human players. The AI is to stupid. Perhaps you can make the changes in the difficult economy only for the human players without affecting the AI? (For example like in the Deus le Vault Mod with the army upkeep)

Or make two different versions for the economy? So everyone can choose?

Greetings from Germany
Nico

[John Forseti]

I think the only thing that really needs changing is the support cost for the general's body guard unit, I just had four family members come of age and it bankrupt me, and maybe make it cheaper to build religious buildings to encourage the AI to recruit more priests.

[tornnight]

I agree John. I halved the upkeep for Bodyguard units and that pretty much solved the issue.

[tornnight]

Beta 8 will be released soon after Patch 1.2 as a compatibility update.

[Elric von Rabenfels]

I like the difficulty the way it is now. It´s hard, that´s right, but that´s the way it should be. Maybe a little balancing for some nations that really are a little hard (Denmark in the early time), but everything else is fine. I personally would like it a little more hard though
But that´s my hardcore-gamership

[super-panda]

I think it's not a goo thing to make the game more hard in implementing a hard economic system. I found the factions around me quite less agressive and they have problems to attack with big armies. I think that the upkeep for generals and family members need to be really put down, but that there is a big difference between a upkeep of bodyguards of a fighting general, and a general tha don't fight really often. Is it possible to add familiy memebers and generals fight on foot like henry in the agincourt battle? It's true that like they were important/noble persons, they often fight like knights, but i think that adding a possibility to have them on foot will be nice, and like that, you should choose a bodyguard that will cost less, for a general that doesn't fight often, like knights cost lesss than dismouteled soldiers.