Altered Streams of Consciousness.

[Captain Arrrgh!]

Ahoy, maties!
This is my first thread starter, so hope I'm doing it right.
It's been a great pleasure reading everyones' posts on religion, philosophy and spirtuality and I have an open ended question for you all;
Do you believe there are altered states, and if they can be achieved?
Do you belive that your current state of awareness is the correct/only one, and if not are you searching for an altered awareness?
Finaly, what are your opnions about excercises that are geared towards higher consciousness, such as transendental meditation, Kundalini, fundamentalist Zen, etc..
This is why it is open ended, as I'd like to hear all thoughts on altered states of mind, be it accidental acquisition through sports, or trauma, or deliberate through meditation -whatever, no rules on this one. Boy, hope I caught you all in a spiritual mood!

[The Walrus]

Hopefully I answered your questions "correctly"

1) Yes and they can be achieved in many ways. Music, meditation, drugs,etc

2) I believe my current state is a "correct" one to an extent. And I do search for altered awareness when writing poems/music etc

3) I think these exercises are good as they open up new perspectives in our brain. I didn't start writing poetry/music until these things happened.

I've reached an altered state through caffeine, music, and people. I've enjoyed it and it is then that I write a lot of my stuff. The first one was accidental but now I can reach another place by doing a few things. It opens up the artist in me even more.


I'll write more maybe but I am going to lunch

[Captain Arrrgh!]

Thats great, Dinadan. I've had similar experiences in making music in the past, though now I'm looking along different avenues. There is definitely a...oneness, I guess you could say, and I hope I don't sound too cheesy, when you are performing with a group, how you communicate through the music. Definitely a higher awareness has been tapped. It's funny when I posed the question I completely forgot about music

[The Walrus]

Thats great, Dinadan. I've had similar experiences in making music in the past, though now I'm looking along different avenues. There is definitely a...oneness, I guess you could say, and I hope I don't sound too cheesy, when you are performing with a group, how you communicate through the music. Definitely a higher awareness has been tapped. It's funny when I posed the question I completely forgot about music

Yeah. Especially when doing something like jazz improvisation. Somehow everyone just gets in this "stream" where the beat turns into the beating of your heart and your just jamming(it seems like 5 minutes but its been 30) You(well depends on people) give people "solos" without realizing it and your body just "knows" what to play. There are no wrong notes and everyone feels alive and joy.

[Captain Arrrgh!]

Yes, Jazz is the most remarkable thing, isn't it? It borders on the metaphysical. I can't fathom how people are capable of such sublime cooperation. Jazz in an example of higher realms of communication.

[Amorphos]

Although we may get into some strange states of mind, there is still something that remains the same.

As for 'higher' states; i would say it is more along the lines of different states, weather or not there is a hierarchy is debatable.

Meditation brings more clarity of mind simply because there is less going on in the brain. for my money the nature we call 'mind' is the same weather it is busy asleep or tripping its box off.

Tripping btw, merely mixes up the contents of your meatware's hard-disc so you may e.g. See rows of houses passing you by as you are stood still, or the entire world may turn into a cartoon. Having said that, once under control you can open doors but those 'doors' are simply different ways of seeing things. Some people link such experience with religious experience and indeed they may well be the same. the mind may be linked to other realms [some say] and hence if the perception is turned in another direction, then one may find themselves in an altogether different world.

Put it this way; i once met a crazy hippie who had just met an alien who took him to the 7th earth – wow man.


Sorry to go way off their... yes audio may be enhanced as may all the senses and communications with them.

[SickBoy13]

I'm not sure if I can describe a stream of conciousness, nor is it my place to say which is right and which is wrong.
I can say that a primal and cooperative stream of conciousness is a wonder. People who may have disagreements coming together to survive and cooperating instinctively is, in my mind, evidence of God's splendour.

[boofhead]

Altered states are very real and attainable. A good author on the subject (related to hallucinogens) is Carlos Castaneda who underwent an apprenticeship to a shaman in Central America. He had mind-boggling experiences.

Another interesting drug to research is DMT, which has been trialled on volunteers in the US, and inevitably takes their minds to other realities.

I have done hallucinogens in the past and come out of a "trip" with a deeper knowledge of certain esoteric concepts.

Astral travel is another method, usually attained initially through training the mind to lucid dream and then continuing on until the full astral state is accomplished.

I did a 10-day hardcore transcendental meditation course in a Vipassana retreat. It was very difficult. Rules: No talking, no eye contact, no reading, no moving quickly, diet change. Woken at 4am with a gong, 14 hours of meditation per day, just focussing on the breath from the nostrils on the upper lip. It was very challenging - one has insane dreams the first few nights, and realises just how much being a social being affects our consciousness.

I remember when I left that place and hopped on a train home. There were these two old ducks in the seat in front of me, both with idiotic Marge Simpson bouffants and talking earnestly about the price of carrots in various stores. Their conversation (after 10 days of silence) was so meaningless, petty and ridiculous to me that I ended up in a state of hysterical laughter, tears streaming down my face. I am sure everyone thought I was lunatic, but it was so funny.

Being imprisoned also gives one an altered state. After never seeing the horizon for many months, when you walk out is an experience of true vertigo - the scope of things tips you off balance.

Having waffled on enough, one could always argue about the subjectivity of altered states, and yes they are....but prove they are not real. They are real for the practitioner, and that is enough in my mind.

[Farnan]

I heard if you get high Calculus makes sense...

..never tried it though.

[Trey]

Yes, I do believe there are streams of altered conciousness, and I have experienced several different kinds: "Musical", "Religious", "Mediation", "Intense Emotion", and "Alcohol/Drugs". I don't have time to write about each one, but all of them have their own peculiar traits, and I will get back to them tommorow.

[Kyiyo]

Do you believe there are altered states, and if they can be achieved?
Do you belive that your current state of awareness is the correct/only one, and if not are you searching for an altered awareness?
Finaly, what are your opnions about excercises that are geared towards higher consciousness, such as transendental meditation, Kundalini, fundamentalist Zen, etc..

Yes, I believe in altered states and have seen and been in altered states.

My current state of awareness, conciousness is "correct" for me at this moment in my journey. I'm hoping to begin the training for some of the other realms of awareness in the near future.

In my culture, there are several ways the different levels are attained. Some people can achieve it in the sweat lodge returning to the "womb" of our Mother, earth and using the safety there and the intense heat from the steam and the prayers to reach another level, transitory, but still an altered state.

The medicine lodge, four days of sacrifice of body, mind, spirit and physical being. No food, no water, dancing, singing, praying. Usually by the third night I'm in that altered state and after the fourth, I don't want to "come back" because there's a safety, serenity and awareness.

There are those among my People who travel in their dreams. This is the training I want to participate in. I'm not certain what's involved in this training to attain this state of being.

There are some of the "high holy people" who can travel in space and time. The training for this is lifelong and I know of only a handful of the most holy of our spiritual leaders who can do this.

Interesting discussion

[Captain Arrrgh!]

Friends, excellent opinions and stories. Boof, I teased you before about astral travel as the Captain, but I'm actualy highly intrigued by the practise. At the retreat, did you actually experience a clearly defined astral travel, or an awareness that could be described differently?
Hi Kyiyo! I envy you your opportunities to practice this. Which First Nations are you?
In addition to Kundalini and fundamentalist Zen, I also travel frequently to the immense forests that bless my land with their presence. I carry few items, and no food and live how I can for several days, before returning to society. These outings are not as intense as Boofhead's experience, but they certainly remind me of our beginnings, or connection to Gaia, and how frivolous constructed society feels once I return to it.
Do all of you find that once you realize a different awareness, it's impossible to go back? To see things as you used to? Take clouds, for example; One looks at clouds and sees beauty in their shape, beams of light radiating through them, but if one studies nephology, they no longer see just 'clouds', they see cumulanimbus, cirrostratus, etc. The clouds are still beautiful, but the beauty has changed, their meaning has changed. The simplicity is gone. Is innocence, perhaps, its own conciousness, with its own wisdom?
Jeeze, sorry folks, I was ruminating while typing and wandered of course

[wilting]

I definitely reached some 'altered state' when I was about 13 through some kind of focus or meditation if you will, did it every now and again in my early to mid teens but then just forgot about it. I felt incredibly carefree, full of energy and a great sense of oneness with everything, as well as achieving out of character sporting skill. It temporarily led me to a belief system which I described at the time as 'I believe in the Universe.'

Tried to get back into it last year (being 21) as both cheap alternative to alcohol (I only drink to make myself more social, and I was inhibition free in my altered state) and as part of a general self improvement drive, but I found it extremely difficult and headache inducing and I couldn't really get there again, only hover on the edge. I got lazy and gave up.

[Captain Arrrgh!]

I definitely reached some 'altered state' when I was about 13 through some kind of focus or meditation if you will, did it every now and again in my early to mid teens but then just forgot about it. I felt incredibly carefree, full of energy and a great sense of oneness with everything, as well as achieving out of character sporting skill. It temporarily led me to a belief system which I described at the time as 'I believe in the Universe.'

Tried to get back into it last year (being 21) as both cheap alternative to alcohol (I only drink to make myself more social, and I was inhibition free in my altered state) and as part of a general self improvement drive, but I found it extremely difficult and headache inducing and I couldn't really get there again, only hover on the edge. I got lazy and gave up.

I know the feeling, as if a certain intrinsic intuitivness is packaged with youth. There is a common theory that we actually loose our attuned perceptive powers as we get older and more socialized. The dichotomy is fascinating; we have the inheirent skill when we are born, but not the focused direction. We have the urge and focus when we are older, but have lost the natural skill.

[boofhead]

At the retreat, did you actually experience a clearly defined astral travel, or an awareness that could be described differently?

No, not astral projection, Vipassana is a Buddhist method of meditation, so the focus is on "equanimity", a neutral seeing of things for what they are, just observing. That is the reason for the total lack of human interaction - it is a mental and emotional solitary confinement while spending 14 hours a day in meditation.

The first couple of days (28 hours of meditation) was simply focussing on the sensation of the breath from the nostrils on the upper lip, simply observing the feeling. When your mind wanders (as it does frequently, especially at first), you just bring it back gently, repeatedly to the source of focus. As your mind wanders less you realise how undisciplined our thinking actually is when immersed in the world of the senses - it is chaotic and crazy. The first 2-3 days are also characterized by vivid, insane dreams at night - these are the "impurities" of the mind, which have found themselves to be quite useless, coming out during sleep.

Then, as each day progresses from there, while focussing on the breath, another sensation to monitor is added to the contemplation. The sensation of the clothes on the body, of buttocks and feet on the floor, of hands in the lap. These things are just observed, nothing more and nothing less, and the mind is always gently brought back when it strays.

Now the course I did was only a ten day introductory retreat, so I only just entered the doorway of this peaceful, contemplative world, but I must say that ten days was very difficult indeed. Some retreats go for a month or even longer. The theory is that once one attains enlightenment, having continually practiced the technique, one can neutrally observe every single sensation in the body, even down to the cellular level, and more importantly observe the sensations for what they really are - Neutral, and equanimous. Pain is not suffered agonisingly, only observed; all emotions and physical realities are seen in the same light. After only 10 days (although that is 240 hours of meditation) I could indeed grasp the power of the technique. I could sit by a pond and predict to the second when this frog was going to croak (every 90 seconds or so - not easy to do, and without counting, just observing the passing of time). The other main realisation I had was on the total chaos and meaninglessness of much of our lives - the stupid verbal babbling, the spats, the roller-coaster emotions, the insignificant seeming so important.

Unfortunately I did this nearly 18 years ago, and have not kept it up (things fell by the wayside - maybe they wouldn't have if I had persisted), so yes the realizations have faded, but if I take the time to think (like now) they all come back to me, so at least they are not lost.

Vipassana is practiced by prisoners in some Indian prisons now, and as you would guess they are notoriously overcrowded, filthy and hellish, and there is much violence. Every prison which has instituted the practice has reduced violence to nearly zero.

Who knows, now that I am older (and wiser ), maybe I would be up for a longer retreat. I could handle a month in a beautiful bush setting, with only the occasional gong, mantra, or animal call.

My longest post ever.....I'll shut up now

[Captain Arrrgh!]

@Skyler. The closest I have experienced to 'Drone' consciousness is once again my time in an asian population, though drone as in like the beehive mind... I couldn't go that far. It is uncanny, though how the public reaction in Korea or Japan to an event is instantaneous and almost entirely unanimous. Coming from a western lifestyle, it is interesting to behold.

@ Seneca and Boofhead. Very informative, do you, or have you attempted to follow the four noble truths and the eightfold path? I find when I do, 'things' just fall into place, be it my interaction with others, peace of mind or what have you. In this it parallels the finer social guidelines of the major religons, ie if we refrain from stealing, murder, sleeping with each other's spouses and so on, people live with relative harmony. Where they diverge is the ultimate aim, in my ignorant opinion. Where as established religion has the worship of a god as it's goal, the nugget, the kernel, of Buddhism is freedom from suffering, first your own, then the suffering of others, first by acknowledging there is suffering, then following the appropriate path to propel one out of the wheel of Samsara. *Gak* that was dreadfully oversimplifying things, wasn't it?
Yikes, what naivete am I spouting, compared to the insight all of you have offered! Sorry.

[Skyler]

Captain,

1)Yes, it can. I have learned acceptance can be an altering state of mind.

2) My point of view right now is that my current state of awareness is the correct one, untill it is proven wrong by myself that is.:hmmm:

3) Meditation, for myself, can clear up the most darkend sky. I have yet to grasp the full extend of it, but I am learning it along the way.

Captain, Do you believe in collective awareness?

[Captain Arrrgh!]

Hi Sky, er High Sky!....okay that joke was old even before I thought it
By collective awareness, can you elaborate? Would that mean a 'Borg' like awarness, or a collective gestalt that still contains freedom and individualism?
Silly me, there's no need for elaboration, because I guess I believe in them both. I've seen more of the former in Asia, where the societal link is still quite strong. There is a New Age belief that human kind will not attain our next level of understanding until we all reach a collective awareness, and I assume/hope this means the latter form. Though I haven't given myself enough time to think on the matter. How do you view it, Skyler?

[Skyler]

Hello Captain Arrrrr*cough*gggh!

I do not know about the first but the latter was my initial aim.
Collective awareness via anticipation; having no need for words because you simply see the situation, person ect.
Knowing what to say or to do when people haven't stated it.

[Captain Arrrgh!]

Hello Captain Arrrrr*cough*gggh!

I do not know about the first but the latter was my initial aim.
Collective awareness via anticipation; having no need for words because you simply see the situation, person ect.
Knowing what to say or to do when people haven't stated it.

Ahhhh, I see. My first thought of this would be in regards loved ones, but I could be deliberatley confusing myself with like mind or simple familiarity. But yes I believe what you said exists.