Answer to AngryTitusPullo from the thread "Muhammad not just a man"

[Hmmm]

Hello! I just felt like I had to answer AngryTitusPullos replies, but since it is off topic, I made a new thread (which is also the reason why I edited my original post to "sry everyone plz delete this post".

Anyway

Reposted:

Story 1.

A man works in a large company in a low level capacity. He's honest, down to earth and well liked by some of his colleague due to his sincerity. However he started to find fault within the higher level of the management in his company. He found out that him and his low level workers are treated unfairly by the higher ranks.

He tried to start a union to defend their rights against injustice. However his plans were not liked by the management and not supported by many of his level colleague and in the end the man was fired.

He however, even knowing that he's powerless against the injustice, forgive those who did wrongs to him.

Story 2.

Two brothers works in a large company. The elder is not a honest man while the second is an honest man who works as hard as he can for the benefit of the company. The elder spread lies and slander against his younger honest brother up to the managers which as the consequences the younger brother has been fired while the elder continue working there.

The younger soon find work in another large company which appreciates him and after a few years he becomes a manager of that new company. Then, both owners of the companies decides on a merger and this younger brother end up as the general manager of both companies.

Eventhough now he has power, he forgave all the fault of his elder brother and all his previous managers of their action against him before.

Facts: Both men in both story forgive their enemies though the one in the first story acts in a position of weakness while the one in the second story acts in the position of power.

Question: Which of the two men actually more merciful ?

Jesus, since he was supposedly the son of God? And since he was teaching about a merciful and forgiving God, while Muhammad was not (for example not forgiving the Jews that had "betrayed" him according to Mirage).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmmm View Post
Jesus NEVER killed anyone. 1 point for Jesus, 0 for Muhammad. Killing others is never justified, just so you know. If you kill someone who wants to kill you, you just lower yourself to his level. Saying Jesus was a coward is the stupidest thing I have ever heard, how come he never fled from being crucified. Guess how much better our world would be if everyone could follow Jesus message instead?

Read the accompanying story above. Well if Christian all follow Jesus teaching, there wont be Christians anymore today.

I was not only talking about Christians, had EVERYONE followed the principle, "dont harm others", our world would have been better.

Well, according to the bible, if Jesus didn't fled then he wont be fulfilling the prophecy, isn't him ? It sounds like a scripted events though.

Well, it is still brave and courageous to be crucified for all humankind, dont you think? Calling him a coward is the lamest thing i have ever heard in my life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmmm View Post
Actually, it might have been strategically or whatever you would like to call it right, but killing will NEVER be morally right. EVER. I dont care wether it is morally right by "arabian standards" or not, it is still not justified.
Indeed. It is never morally right. However, in all society, defending one-self is justifiable in every right, even if it includes killing an enemy who wants to do you harm.

Is not defending yourself and consequently your family is not morally right too ? We do not live in an Utopian society. Open up your eyes.

I do know that we do not live in a Utopian society. I am well aware of the hostility between different nations in our day, and to be honest i am getting irritated at pacifists who actually believe that it is safe to disarm all weapons. What i was talking about is that it is still less morally right to kill than not. Killing someone is still worse, basically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmmm View Post
There is a difference between Romans&Sassanids and Muhammad. Romans and Sassanids was nations, fighting wars. Muhammad was a "prophet" who would spread a religion, prophets if anyone should not kill or harm others. You cant by any means compare the two.

Reverend Bosworth Smith remarks, "Head of the state as well as the Church, he was Caesar and Pope in one; but, he was pope without the pope's claims, and Caesar without the legions of Caesar, without an standing army, without a bodyguard, without a palace, without a fixed revenue. If ever any man had the right to say that he ruled by a right divine It was Mohammad, for he had all the power without instruments and without its support. He cared not for dressing of power. The simplicity of his private life was in keeping with his public life."

You see, Muhammad is not just a prophet, but a leader of a community. With leadership comes obligation to defend the community.

Being a prophet and a leader for a whole society is actually not very good, your religion should NOT by any means lead your society, it is to be there to provide you with faith and a moral. Muhammad would have been much more respected by me (not because I dont respect him) had he followed Jesus example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmmm View Post
No, Muhammad, like any other "prophet", should act peacefully, not encourage killing others (which he did by killing others). Did Buddha or Jesus kill others? Zarathustra?

Who he personally kill ? Care to give names ? Anyway, Buddha or Jesus never had the honour of leading a community. Imagine if had that power. Imagine if all the Jews at his time follows him. Will he led his people to fight the Roman occupier ? Will he let his people be killed without a chance to defend themselves ? What kind of leader is that ?

I did not say that he killed someone personally, but he did give orders of executions, the Jews that supposedly "betrayed" him (those of Khaibar), for example? He was the one having power, and indeed he killed them. I dont think Jesus would have done that.

Anyway, for me I would never follow a man who is rude to his own mother (like Jesus calling Mary 'Woman' in the bible) or Buddha who left his family (a newborn baby I think) just to seek his enlightment.

You prefer someone who kills people over someone who is mercifull and forgives? Fine, your choice. I still think Jesus was the better at being a prophet.

For me, as though by my religion, family are important.

And i never questioned that. But let us take an example. Had your family lived in the days of Muhammad and "betrayed" him, he would probably have killed them. Had they lived during the days of Jesus, and "betrayed" him, he would probably have forgiven them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmmm View Post
Human morals, maybe? Do you actually think that it is better to kill than not? What kind of cruel barbarian are you? What age do you come from, the Dark Age? You are even worse to actually question wether it is better not to kill than to kill.

People are killing even in this modern age. It used to be with swords and gladius, but now with smart-bomb guided from F-16. It's still killing. Things never changed from the days of Cain and Abel.

And people still dont think it is good. Would you like your best friend being killed? No, obviously not. That is what I meant. I was replying to:

Why? Why is a man who kills not more spitually advanced? Who decided this? You? Jesus? The imaginary Jesus? Santa claus? Easter bunny? Where are you getting this notions from?

You dont think someone who prefers not to kill is more spiritually advanced than someone who does? The one who does is obviously not merciful or forgiveful, thus less spiritually advanced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmmm View Post
Imagine a world where killing is not considered bad, how well would our society have evolved?

Imagination should stick to movies. In realities everyday people are killed. Some in the name of religion, some in the name of greed, some in the name of lust and some are just being at the wrong palce at the wrong time.

It is still considered bad by the majority of the human population, take my example above. If someone standing close to you is killed, would you like it? Or would you like to kill someone? What would happen if humans would suddenly kill without any reaction or feeling bad at all about it? Society is based on groups of humans, it is not possible to evovle without this group working, and the group is obviously not working if people do not consider killing bad. It has to do with sticking together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmmm View Post
But the way he "gave" his message was extremly questionable, whereas Jesus never killed or harmed anyone. Being practical is STILL NOT MORE MORALLY RIGHT! You have to be able to distinguish between the two.

There are many other thing which consider, morally right in my understanding. Forgiving enemies when you had all the power of retribution is more morally right than forgiving the enemies when you had no power at all.

Obviously, yes, but Jesus was supposedly the son of God, so who do you think have most power of the two? And Muhammad clearly showed that he is not all that forgiving when he have power.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmmm View Post
Yes, he might have been great. But saying he was "superior" to Jesus? I would have prefered people following Jesus message over Muhammads anyday in the week, Jesus never encouraged fighting. Muhammad did, no matter if it was for defence or not.

Well, before Muhammad came, people still be killing each other, having war, even among those who claim to follow Jesus teachings. Why should it be different ?

They were not following Jesus teachings, it is another thing to claim following them and actually follow them. Like Al-Quada claiming to follow Islam, they dont, one obvious proof being suicide bombings, i do not think you are allowed to kill yourself in Islam?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmmm View Post
The Spartans being a military camp and Muhammed being a prophet who is supposed to come with a good message for mankind, maybe?

Wathing too much 300 aren't we ?

No!...maybe? Just kidding, but to compare the Spartans and Muhammad is rather silly, dont you think? The Spartans was a warrior society, the movie 300 is not the first to portray them as such, while Muhammad was spreading a new religion, maybe not the best example to set by marrying children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hmmm View Post
Jesus never said kill someone, Muhammad preached about "killing the non-believers", does not matter wether they were Pagans or not, they were still human. Jesus did not teach anyone to kill anyone. So WHO was the more peaceful? Jesus. Not to mention Jesus got "nailed to the wood"
to save humanity from our sins, that was the whole reason for him being in Earth.

Killing the non-believers who wage war on you, intending to wipe you out. Killing your enemy before they kill you. It's the base on the modern Geneva Convention regarding warfare.

Jesus preached to forgive them aswell, and to "turn the other cheek". Dont you think that it is more mercifull?

In the opinion of Prof. Hurgronje "the league of nations founded by prophet of Islam put the principle of international unity of human brotherhood on such Universal foundations as to show candle to other nations." In the words of same Professor "the fact is that no nation of the world can show a parallel to what Islam has done the realization of the idea of the League of Nations."

He just want to seem "non-rascist". I dont say that Islam has not contributed with anything, the only reason that i actually posted was Mirages constant insult on Jesus. Also, "human brotherhood" was started far earlier, Alexander saying "I regard a a good barbarian as a Greek and bad Greek as worse than a barbarian and ", Platon (or Socrates, or Aristotle, dont remember who) said "im not an Athenian, im not a Greek, im a Human".

[jankren]

He just want to seem "non-rascist". I dont say that Islam has not contributed with anything, the only reason that i actually posted was Mirages constant insult on Jesus. Also, "human brotherhood" was started far earlier, Alexander saying "I regard a a good barbarian as a Greek and bad Greek as worse than a barbarian and ", Platon (or Socrates, or Aristotle, dont remember who) said "im not an Athenian, im not a Greek, im a Human".

I hope you also know that Mirage is a confirmed atheist. He insults Muhammad and Jesus equally.

[Hmmm]

I hope you also know that Mirage is a confirmed atheist. He insults Muhammad and Jesus equally.

I know that he calls himself an atheist, but saying that he insults Muhammad and Jesus equally is not complelty true (in that thread). He says that Muhammad was a great prophet and knew what he was doing ect while he calls Jesus a coward. How could that be "equal insults" (Except that Jesus is a prophet in Islam "too" ("=Jesus is the son of God in Christianity, but a phrophet in Islam, which is the reason why I wrote "too" and not too)?

[MasterAdnin]

I know that he calls himself an atheist, but saying that he insults Muhammad and Jesus equally is not complelty true (in that thread). He says that Muhammad was a great prophet and knew what he was doing ect while he calls Jesus a coward. How could that be "equal insults" (Except that Jesus is a prophet in Islam "too" ("=Jesus is the son of God in Christianity, but a phrophet in Islam, which is the reason why I wrote "too" and not too)?

I dunno if you know this or not, but in Islam, Hazarat Isa(Jesus(pbuh)) was one of Allah's favorite Prophets. I dunno, just throwin that in there.

Adnan

[Sétanta]

That's because He was His son.

[Hmmm]

I dunno if you know this or not, but in Islam, Hazarat Isa(Jesus(pbuh)) was one of Allah's favorite Prophets. I dunno, just throwin that in there.

Adnan

Sry, must have been unclear. I know that Jesus was a prophet in Islam, that is what i tried to say in the latest post.

But you might aswell have meant just the fact that he was one of his favourites?

[Gazi Husrev-Beg]

If you find patience i found some nice videos that might prove enlightening hopefully, while they have theological debate about is Jesus a God, is Bible Gos Word etc...check it out

Here is at youtube, debate of Ahmed Deedat vs Sjoberg :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rONRAi3y8og

all videos can be found if you click at guy who posted them, nalikbar i think is his nick.

[Sadreddine]

There is an extense debate between Muhammad (s) and Jesus (s) in many other threads; for instance the "which religion is more peaceful, Islam or Christianity" thread. Since the arguments displayed are basically the same, perhaps the OP should take a look at that thread in which there is extensive discussion.

To remark my view, I state that if the message of Prophet Jesus was followed to the letter, society would degenerate into anarchy and subsequent chaos; and that if the famous "put the other cheek" was applied to any situation or context, there would be no christians around anymore.

Certainly, Jesus found himself in a situation in which a somewhat pacifist, docile speech would be the best way to preach. The jews however foresaw his potential damage to their position and condemned him to death. By doing so, they made him a martyr of faith and further helped christianism to develop as the official faith of the Roman Empire later on. Had Jesus and his followers openly rioted to defy the Roman supremacy, Christianism would have probably never become accepted by the Romans and thus would not have expanded as much as it did.

No, the message of Jesus the Messiah and Beloved of Allah, was to be generally peaceful in his message and to die a martyr. One should consider however the different roles Muhammad and Jesus played, and the very different and complex situations in which their messages were spread. Truly their "carrier", early followers and enemies were very different. By judging with modern standards and without considering the - always elusive - context one is not being fair.

[Hmmm]

There is an extense debate between Muhammad (s) and Jesus (s) in many other threads; for instance the "which religion is more peaceful, Islam or Christianity" thread. Since the arguments displayed are basically the same, perhaps the OP should take a look at that thread in which there is extensive discussion.

Sorry about that

To remark my view, I state that if the message of Prophet Jesus was followed to the letter, society would degenerate into anarchy and subsequent chaos;

It would? Not killing or hurting each other would lead to chaos, is that what you are trying to say? Anarchy is a consequence of people not following any laws and mostly being violent, quite the opposite of what Jesus Christ was teaching.

and that if the famous "put the other cheek" was applied to any situation or context, there would be no christians around anymore.

No, there would not be any Christians around anymore, but there would be if everyone had followed Jesus teachings (or similar). I was talking about the world being better if everyone was more peaceful.

Certainly, Jesus found himself in a situation in which a somewhat pacifist, docile speech would be the best way to preach. The jews however foresaw his potential damage to their position and condemned him to death. By doing so, they made him a martyr of faith and further helped christianism to develop as the official faith of the Roman Empire later on. Had Jesus and his followers openly rioted to defy the Roman supremacy, Christianism would have probably never become accepted by the Romans and thus would not have expanded as much as it did.

What does this have to do with anything? It does not change that his teachings was more morally right.

No, the message of Jesus the Messiah and Beloved of Allah, was to be generally peaceful in his message and to die a martyr. One should consider however the different roles Muhammad and Jesus played, and the very different and complex situations in which their messages were spread. Truly their "carrier", early followers and enemies were very different. By judging with modern standards and without considering the - always elusive - context one is not being fair.

Am I not being fair? Why, because I defend Christianity? While Mirage who calls Jesus a coward is very fair, right?

What happened is that I replied to Mirage first, realised that the thread was not the best to reply in and deleted everything, but AngryTitusPullo had already quoted me by then, so I decided not to get off topic in the other thread and answered AngryTitusPullo in this thread instead.

Basically, the whole debate started because Mirage was not very fair on calling Jesus a coward, and now I am not fair for defending his teachings?

[jankren]

Sorry about that
Basically, the whole debate started because Mirage was not very fair on calling Jesus a coward, and now I am not fair for defending his teachings?

The same dude also calls Muhammad a pedophile. So, basically he is being unfair toward all of us. Can't we just get along and unite against him? Im kidding yo.

[Sadreddine]

It would? Not killing or hurting each other would lead to chaos, is that what you are trying to say? Anarchy is a consequence of people not following any laws and mostly being violent, quite the opposite of what Jesus Christ was teaching.

No, no. I mean that the somewhat "relaxed" small community Jesus (s) tried to create between his followers would lead into anarchy, or a primitive social organization if you wish, for the simple reason that they were encouraged to abandon all wordly possesions and worryings and embrace a strict monacal life.

No, there would not be any Christians around anymore, but there would be if everyone had followed Jesus teachings (or similar). I was talking about the world being better if everyone was more peaceful.

Well, sorry to be the one telling you this, but the world is a harsh place sometimes, and utopies like this are a bad hipothesis to begin with. Down here people die, kill, and is jealous for each other's possesions. War is inherent to us. In this mad world, Islam preaches for self-defense. That is always morally right and desirable to any society, culture, or religion.

What does this have to do with anything? It does not change that his teachings was more morally right.

I never stated Prophet Jesus's teachings weren't morally right. His message wasn't always so peaceful, however:

Mathew 10.34-39: "Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man's enemies will be persons of his own household. He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not accept his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me. He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it."

Note that Jesus never became a secular leader as Muhammad (s) did. Leading a new nation in a violent environment like that of early Islam with the motto "put the other cheek" is not going to work. If Muslims hadn't fight against their pagan enemies, they would have been utterly annihilated in no time. I'm just surprised by the fact that some people refuse to admit this.

Am I not being fair? Why, because I defend Christianity? While Mirage who calls Jesus a coward is very fair, right?
[...] Basically, the whole debate started because Mirage was not very fair on calling Jesus a coward, and now I am not fair for defending his teachings?

People tend to take my words personally too often. I'm not saying "hey, you are unfair". I'm just saying that anyone who does not carefully consider context is not being fair when critizing. If you've felt addressed by my words, shouldn't you then be more worried about considering context?

I, other muslims in this thread, and Islam in general, are not responsible for what Mirage said. I guess you understand that.

[Hmmm]

No, no. I mean that the somewhat "relaxed" small community Jesus (s) tried to create between his followers would lead into anarchy, or a primitive social organization if you wish, for the simple reason that they were encouraged to abandon all wordly possesions and worryings and embrace a strict monacal life.

Sry for misunderstanding

Well, sorry to be the one telling you this, but the world is a harsh place sometimes, and utopies like this are a bad hipothesis to begin with. Down here people die, kill, and is jealous for each other's possesions. War is inherent to us. In this mad world, Islam preaches for self-defense. That is always morally right and desirable to any society, culture, or religion.

Which is the reason why I used "if"
(I know that our world is far from peaceful, and will never be)

I never stated Prophet Jesus's teachings weren't morally right. His message wasn't always so peaceful, however:

Mathew 10.34-39: "Do not think I came to put peace upon the earth; I came to put, not peace, but a sword. For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. Indeed, a man's enemies will be persons of his own household. He that has greater affection for father or mother than for me is not worthy of me; and he that has greater affection for son or daughter than for me is not worthy of me. And whoever does not accept his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me. He that finds his soul will lose it, and he that loses his soul for my sake will find it."

He says that you should believe in him. Muhammad did that aswell.

Note that Jesus never became a secular leader as Muhammad (s) did. Leading a new nation in a violent environment like that of early Islam with the motto "put the other cheek" is not going to work. If Muslims hadn't fight against their pagan enemies, they would have been utterly annihilated in no time. I'm just surprised by the fact that some people refuse to admit this.

I never said that Muhammad did anything wrong or should have done it in another way. I simply stated that Jesus was not a coward and answered Mirage, and that it is more peaceful to say "put the other cheek" than "defend yourself", even if the last is not violent.

I, other muslims in this thread, and Islam in general, are not responsible for what Mirage said. I guess you understand that.

I do understand that, but I never tried to insult you or anything. I simply answered Mirage, AngryTitusPullo answered me and I had to answer back.

[AngryTitusPullo]

I do understand that, but I never tried to insult you or anything. I simply answered Mirage, AngryTitusPullo answered me and I had to answer back.

You haven't even answered by reading correctly.

Look at your first post reply to my metaphorical story. There was never mention Jesus or Muhammad in them. It can happen or is probably happening in today's corporate world.

I asked which of the 2 men were more merciful, from Story 1 and Story 2. I'm not asking about Jesus or Muhammad.

[Turk]

I think the most dont know that jesus is a (i dont know the word on english)important person of us too
so we cant insult him

You say our world never can be peaceful?
what america does is peace?

[Hmmm]

I think the most dont know that jesus is a (i dont know the word on english)important person of us too
so we cant insult him

You say our world never can be peaceful?
what america does is peace?

Uhh... what? Where did I state that Moslems is not peaceful? And what does America have to do with anything?

Also, I already stated that Jesus is a prophet in Islam.
EDIT:

You haven't even answered by reading correctly.

Look at your first post reply to my metaphorical story. There was never mention Jesus or Muhammad in them. It can happen or is probably happening in today's corporate world.

I asked which of the 2 men were more merciful, from Story 1 and Story 2. I'm not asking about Jesus or Muhammad.

What will answering your metaphorical story have to do with anything? I already stated that the last one is more mercifull.

Jesus, since he was supposedly the son of God?

Sorry, but i thought that you meant that the first one was Jesus and second was Muhammad. I stated that Jesus was the son of God (in Christianity), so obviously he too comes in to the second category. On the other hand Muhammad was not so mercifull when it comes to that, I already mentioned the Jews of Khaibar.

Otherwise, if you mean none of the two, then the second.

[sephodwyrm]

Jesus NEVER killed anyone. 1 point for Jesus, 0 for Muhammad. Killing others is never justified, just so you know. If you kill someone who wants to kill you, you just lower yourself to his level. Saying Jesus was a coward is the stupidest thing I have ever heard, how come he never fled from being crucified. Guess how much better our world would be if everyone could follow Jesus message instead?

Christians surely aren't following Jesus' examples. And Jesus is supposed to their God.
1000000000000000 point for Jesus, 0 for Christians.

No, Muhammad, like any other "prophet", should act peacefully, not encourage killing others (which he did by killing others). Did Buddha or Jesus kill others? Zarathustra?

I don't remember Muhammed encourage anyone killing others. But the Qur'an did tell the Muslims to kill the Meccans anywhere on the battlefield, and to make peace once they incline to do so. That's pretty much pacifist.

And before you bring Buddha into the picture, Siddharta Gautama tells you to abandon all physical connection to this world - no emotion, no attachment to property, no attachment to any individual and no longing for this life. By achieving this state of nothingness, you are enlightened.

This sounds like suicide, so I think Buddha encourages killing of yourself.

Obviously, yes, but Jesus was supposedly the son of God

That's what some claim.
Others claim that Jesus was God.
I mean, probably to the amusement of the real God. If God is out there, he would laugh at this sorry mess we call inter-faith relations.

the only reason that i actually posted was Mirages constant insult on Jesus.

The reason I reply is because I believe in the Freedom of Speech and that Jesus should be insulted, for he is the Prophet that represent sado-masochistic tendencies. If no one insulted or tortured Jesus, then his sufferings would never have started in the first place.

[Hmmm]

Christians surely aren't following Jesus' examples. And Jesus is supposed to their God.
1000000000000000 point for Jesus, 0 for Christians.

And Moslems follow Muhammads examples? Suicide not allowed? What about suicide bombings? Same thing, you really cannot compare some Christians or Christians from 500 years ago with modern Christians.

I don't remember Muhammed encourage anyone killing others. But the Qur'an did tell the Muslims to kill the Meccans anywhere on the battlefield, and to make peace once they incline to do so. That's pretty much pacifist.

No, not at all. What about pagans? I remember a part of the Qur'an saying that they should be killed. Or their attack on Sassanids and Byzantines?

And before you bring Buddha into the picture, Siddharta Gautama tells you to abandon all physical connection to this world - no emotion, no attachment to property, no attachment to any individual and no longing for this life. By achieving this state of nothingness, you are enlightened.

Yes, but that is not the important. The important is that Buddha does the opposite from encouraging killing others.

This sounds like suicide, so I think Buddha encourages killing of yourself.

Not exacly what I said. I said that he does not encourage violence in any form. All else is of no relevance here.

That's what some claim.
Others claim that Jesus was God.
I mean, probably to the amusement of the real God. If God is out there, he would laugh at this sorry mess we call inter-faith relations.

You are stating...exacly...what? That Jesus was not the son of God? From a Christian point of view, he was, and right now we are comparing Christianity and Islam.

The reason I reply is because I believe in the Freedom of Speech and that Jesus should be insulted, for he is the Prophet that represent sado-masochistic tendencies. If no one insulted or tortured Jesus, then his sufferings would never have started in the first place.

Yes, but why continue? Freedom of Speech? So you call insulting Jesus "Freedom of Speech"? But some caricatures of Mohammad is not? Instead, that gives you the reason to start burning the flags of not only Denmark, but also Norway and Sweden.

Not to mention that insulting Jesus is not really going to get him (Mirage) anywhere, especially not in that thread. "Should be insulted", sure, then Mohammad should be insulted too? I guess im allowed to do that right now. Or is it that you think that only Moslems should be allowed to insult others?

Not to mention, what does that have to do with anything at all? I stated why I posted because people thought that i hated Islam. Why do you state that? To try and justify Mirages insults on Jesus? Grow up.

[tnick777]

Me as a Christian beleive these 2 things.


I don't beleive everything the bible says about Jesus, but I do know he is very divine.

I beleive Mohammad was a man touched by God, becoming so powerful he united a region in the world that was thought to be impossible to unite.

My stance is

Mohammad is among Moses and Abraham as being a very important prophet to Christianity/Islam, but I also feel as if Jesus really is the son of God, or has diving powers within him.

But I've also had this idea, Jesus and Mohammad are the same messages. Jesus layed the kindling for a large religion, and Mohammad ignited it.

I also respect the heck out of Islam for taking Jesus as a prophet. I agree that alot of Islam gets blown out of proportion. It's got this bitter coating that the world only sees but if you get deeper into it, it's a very peaceful beautiful religion, I've actually wanted to convert a few times. But Christianity always had me coming back.

I feel that Islam has been tainted by the media, there's over a billion Muslims in the world. Maybe 1/1000 want to strap a bomb on themselves for radical Jihad, not even that much.

I veiw Islam as Christianity's little brother. Growing up as did Christianity. I can see many ties that if the right moves would be made they could become pretty interactive religions in a good cause.