Become a vassal?

[floyd25586]

Has anybody had another faction become a vassal?How did you do that?To me it seems pretty difficult...Are there any benefits?

[eggthief]

I've only been someone else's vassal, even when they have a very weak army and only one town left they still won't surrender. I heard that you get half his income every turn though, it should be worth trying to make him your vassal.

[floyd25586]

In my french campaign portugal and spain were allies and a few turns later portugal became spain's vassal!Maybe this means that you should have good relationships with a faction to force it become your vassal?

[Towelie]

In my french campaign portugal and spain were allies and a few turns later portugal became spain's vassal!Maybe this means that you should have good relationships with a faction to force it become your vassal?

Actually, you need to be at war with faction to make 'em a vassal

Anyway, it is hard, and to me mostly worked if another faction had 1-2 provinces left, and i have bunch of troops on their land.

[5h@\/\/|\| [TNT]]

According to wiktionary : vassal

1. The grantee of a fief, feud, or fee; one who holds land of a superior, and who vows fidelity and homage to him, normally a lord of a manor; a feudatory; a feudal tenant.
2. A subject; a dependent; a servant; a slave.

I never submit to being a vassal, make them become your vassal.

[Thy]

i had pontus as a vassal once, you must be at war with them, they have to have one town left and then offer become vassal and a large sum of money.

[floyd25586]

Thanks guys i'll give it a try!

[Beiss]

Well, I was just made a vassal under another faction. I couldn't fight them off. Don't know what benefits / backdraws it has, other than the fact that they aren't attacking me and blockading my ports anymore.

[Duke_of_Bavaria]

Oh yeah, it's deffinetly possible, heres the proof:



Thing is, youre gonna have to fight your enemy down to like 1 province, totaly mess up their economy and then actually offer them loads of cash in a lump sum + per turn (or just take their capital, sack it, offer the money you got + the province).
And everyone knows that the diplomacy sux. Your vassals will backstab you in a couple of turns. It's fun while it lasts though.

[Spartan156]

Can we get a full picture of that?

[Radioman]

A couple of weeks ago, I modified my English faction to Orthodox...Since I was somewhat of a free spirit, in terms of not being a catholic or islamic faction, I seemed to have a lot more vassal and ally oppurtunities. You have to remember that relations in the Catholic factions revolve around what the Pope likes...It's the same with Islamic factions as well. Although as an Orthodox faction you can call the shots{money is always a factor though, what good is a vassal that has no money to put in your war chest each turn???} A real vassal could have 20 more provences then you, and more money then Trump, but if you can crush there best army and open diplomatic relations after said victory...You can demand they become your vassal in conjunction with giving them a persuasive amount of money and map info...Never fails as long as the money is good the first time, so throw down alot and you will get 75% or more of thier bank and control all of thier regions at the same time in return. Here's some examples:








:::This last chart shows pretty much all of the Aztec's riches going to my faction after making them my vassal.




:::I think I made everyone my vassal in this one...

[Duke_of_Bavaria]

Woah dude, thats wacko. Interesting campaign map btw.

[socks]

too add a variation on the posts, i thought id mention my 'vassal experience'

i was just on the verge of losing the game, playing de lous vult 4.0 on mtw2, the egyptians had most of the east and were in germany, in everyones faces, the pope seems to have been taken out entirely as egypt rules of all italy

anyway, for a test i offered egypt the chance to become my vassal - they accepted for 2 payments of 65k - i didnt bother as i want to kick their ass, which will take a few weeks, if not months - but i prefer a huge war like this - and anyway, being a catholic faction, it doesnt seem right having muslims round for tea

theres my two pen worth

[eggthief]

ehm this thread died a long time ago and I don´t think that people like it if u ressurect it.

[Bluice]

whynot? he offered a valid point...

[eggthief]

Well this thread is around 9 months old, the AI has been improved a lot meanwhile so I doubt that the OP still has problems with it.

[Zephrelial]

Has anybody had another faction become a vassal?How did you do that?To me it seems pretty difficult...Are there any benefits?

Perphaps I'm the best to answer this question in detail Floyd,since I was obssesed with making other factions my vassal.

Yes I had made another faction a vassal,at least 6-7 times,and it's very beneficial.You get half of their income just sitting on your arse,and the vassals tend to remain as vassals for a long time,totally submissive.

And thirdly if you want to have the satisfaction of breaking and humiliating a faction without utterly destroying it,vassalization is the only choice,not to mention that it's also ideal for creating a buffer state between you and a stronger faction.

Also it's great for roleplaying,targeting a specific faction depended which faction you play,trying to make it your vassal historically.

The only problem is that I still believe that the vassalization feature of m2tw is bugged,and unfortunately is still not fixed.I mentioned and claimed this in one of the threads here at twc to a person who works for CA.

How is it bugged? I'll try to explain as best as I can.Technically when checking the necessary executable commands in the essential AI file related to campaign,everything seems fine and in place.. No problem there.Here is an example:

if we're at war && he borders all our groups && his frontline strength is more than thrice as large as ours &&
his free strength is more than four times as large as ours, AND IS NOT OUR SHADOW FACTION >>> propose become protectorate
-->
<min_entry stance="AtWar" borders_all_our_regions="true"/>
<max_entry frontline_balance="0.3" free_strength_balance="0.3" production_balance="0.5" target_is_shadow="false"/>
<faction_attitude defense="defend_deep" want_peace="true" want_be_protect="true" alliance_against="7"/>
</decision_entry>


As can be clearly interpreted from the above lines,the AI MUST accept the vassalization offer of the player given the following parameters are met:

1- Player is at war with the AI.
2- Player is the neighbour of the AI,bordering ALL of AI's regions.
3- Player's armies at the frontline outnumbers three times AI's armies.
4- Player's total armies strength/number is three times more than of AI's armies.
5- Player's production strength is 5 times greater than of AI's.(this line is quite irrelevant to vassalization and shouldn't have been instituted in the first place in my opinion)

I skipped the shadow faction parameter.Note that within those 5 parameters the Global standing,reputation of the player is not taken into account at all.So in the light of this fellow TWC goers,imagine the situations that you wanted to vassalize the AI yet failed,were these parameters met?

My answer is yes they were met at least thirty times,speaking for my part;yet I only managed to vassalize 7 or 8 times.This is clearly a BUG.And again I claim that vassalization feature is BUGGED.

The developers were probably also aware of this because in their official patch v1.2,they've added an extra power status to v1.2.I can't remember its name now but the new power status is lower than the status labeled as "Pathetic" and occurs when the AI has only 1 region left,has no armies,and when you have besieged their last city.I've realized that it worked and when at this state the AI accepts the vassalization offer of the player..Or so I thought..

Because in my some other attempts again I failed to vassalize the AI although their power was lower than Pathetic.

One thing I found out about the bug,it always occurs and the vassalization ALWAYS fail when the priorities seem as "Unknown" :





Well I've tried the method of spying by sending agents so that their priorities can be seen before I tried to vassalize but this doesn't help either.Provided that their priorities are "Peace" the AI will probably accept.The problem is once you see this "unknown" status it persists to remain how many times you initiate a diplomatic negotiation with the intent of vassalization...

This is really a bothersome issue,I once quit my whole campaign when playing the Turks because of this..Their only city remaining was Constantinople and my vassalization attempts always failed,quite frustrated by this I quit the whole campaign.

In some other cases while I was playing with HRE,I vassalized France and Hungary and they had at least 3 or 4 regions..:hmmm: But in short I really think that there is a HC problem with the whole matter,as I clearly displayed the essential command lines,and clearly in most cases they don't work;at least for me.

[eggthief]

A nice and detailed response to Floyd, but the only problem is that he hasn't been active for quite some while.

[Zephrelial]

A nice and detailed response to Floyd, but the only problem is that he hasn't been active for quite some while.

I see.Well my response was also aimed for anyone that had taken an interest in the whole of the vassalization issue.

[Bluice]

I found it useful, thank you very much

Well I've tried the method of spying by sending agents so that their priorities can be seen before I tried to vassalize but this doesn't help either.Provided that their priorities are "Peace" the AI will probably accept.The problem is once you see this "unknown" status it persists to remain how many times you initiate a diplomatic negotiation with the intent of vassalization...

In my experience I have found that is was unknown at first but the moment I ask for a ceasefire (which I know will be rejected), the priority changes to an actual status and not "unknown", mind you I am playing the Stainless Steel mod but it shouldn't make a difference except for the fact the AI adjustment made thru the "Ultimate AI" mod pack did make the AI more passive.