Buisiness with the Hex: A regular update thread

[imb39]

Kagemusha and Ozymandias.

It's not a secret that there is a division inside the Hex how it sees the Curia and its future. This is of course influenced to general trust of the Curia.

There has been so secret of discord within Hex over the changes - or rather, the manner of change. However, look at actions - has Hex abrogated any agreement/contract with the Curia (a sort of social contract, I suppose).

This time it's not the Curia that needs to solve trust problems but the Hex itself. I'm sure that this matter will be solved eventually but as imb39 can tell, I have slightly different view how this should be achieved.

I think it is a two way process. There has to be a cultural shift from all parties. To expect only Hex to change is, I would argue, untenable.

Apologies to all parties if I have sounded a bit negative, well, that's just me, no offence meant there.

Doubtless I come across as negative at the moment. I'm sure this is only temporary.

And no, I'm not speaking about the consitution but the spirit of the Curia as a whole.

I think the spirit of the Constitution needs to be considered. I had envisioned a partnership working together. I was not diligent enough, probably... Still, that is, at the end of the day, my problem.

imb39

The tree does not decide where it spours or lives, it merely wants to prosper and grow, caretaker makes the decision where and what seeds are planted, not the tree.

Ragabash,

Occasionally the tree will grow but become unstable. Should the caretaker intervene or let it collapse? Conversely many plants are made stonger with pruning and tending - should the caretaker abandon that too?

[Søren]

I agree with Imb.

Lots of love,
Senatorii Patrician Søren, Administrator, Chief of Moderation, ex-Imperial Consul, ex-Praetor, ex-Prefect, ex-Strategos, ex-Tribunous, ex-Quaestor, ex-Urbanis Legio, ex-Procurator, ex-Councillor of the Consilium de Civitate and Former Member of the Decemvirate Panel.

[Belisarius]

I agree with Imb.

Lots of love,
Senatorii Patrician Søren, Administrator, Chief of Moderation, ex-Imperial Consul, ex-Praetor, ex-Prefect, ex-Strategos, ex-Tribunous, ex-Quaestor, ex-Urbanis Legio, ex-Procurator, ex-Councillor of the Consilium de Civitate and Former Member of the Decemvirate Panel.

Damn it, I forgot some hehe.

Civitates Patrician Senatorii Belisarius, Former Pro Curator, Hexagon member, Quaestor, Urbanis Legio, Praetor, Consul, Praetorian Prefect, Strategos, former Content Manager and Editor and Current CdC member and Former Member of the Decemvirate Panel

[Obi Wan Asterix]

I agree with Imb.

Lots of love,
Senatorii Patrician Søren, Administrator, Chief of Moderation, ex-Imperial Consul, ex-Praetor, ex-Prefect, ex-Strategos, ex-Tribunous, ex-Quaestor, ex-Urbanis Legio, ex-Procurator, ex-Councillor of the Consilium de Civitate and Former Member of the Decemvirate Panel.

Just give Aristocrat one of your titles

[Belisarius]

imb39, Owner.

Ian I applaud your use of utter Pwnage.

What has happened here is a traditional breakdown of rationality. People still have not learned that the power Curia holds is not the constitution, the constitution is nothing and I personally never gave it importance over what I percieved to be popular opinion. The constitution is a summary and representation of what the citizens want and an instruction manual. Thats all.

The power the Curia holds is the power to destabalise and rock the site into turmoil if and when the Administration choose to put their wishes above those of the people. This is not the case, and these rules and sub rules and sub sub rules are only antagonising the relationship between Curia and Staff where we will get to a point where I will not be able to open a vote of no confidence which will be given importance because Hex will be too bored and used to these constant detrimental attacks Aden seems dead set on continuing. He has even throttled the Tribunal into pointless beurocracy. The people in general dont give a damn aobut Article four of sebsection three! They give a damn about having the ability to change the site.

Civitates Patrician Senatorii Belisarius, Former Pro Curator, Hexagon member, Quaestor, Praetor, Consul, Praetorian Prefect, former Content Manager and Editor and Current CdC member.

ooooooooo Shwanky

[Tacticalwithdrawal]

god, this is becoming a habit but I agree with Bel

The thing a lot of people seem to forget here is that this is a voluntary organisation - the people who run it are all volunteers, all the people who attend are volunteers. Like a lot of voluntary organisations when the place is running well the rules are not important, the organisation runs because people get on with it, talk to each other and generally assume that those who have given up their time to help the organisation are doing a fairly good job. The only time rules are applied are when things start to go wrong.

Now, in TWC there is a further factor and that is that, regardless of the Syntagma, there is only one rule: 'What imb39 says goes'. If we as members of the organisation don't like what he says then we can pick up our bags and leave (as we showed in January), but I see no signs of things going even mildly wrong in fact I see a Hex that is willing to be far more open and accountable Hex than i think we have ever had.

So, what is the problem? Well, another side effect of voluntary organisations the world over is that all the members feel they have 'rights' in the organisation, they give up time for that organisation (in some cases whether the organisation wants them to or not) and therefore the organisation 'owes' them.

And it isn't just TWC, go to any village council or sports club or Women's Institute or Masons etc. and you will see the same thing. The pursuit of those that run the organisation and the mindless adherence to the minutiae and intricate detail of the organisation's law books grinds everything to a halt.

I've been in many of these situations on many voluntary bodies over the years (I must be mad), and the final, extreme of the symptom is usually one of the following:

• The volunteers giving up their time to run the place get so hacked off with it all they leave and the non-entities take over, the organisation folds.
• The trust in the organisation is poisoned, relations between those that run it and those that are members break down and the organisation falls apart.
• Those that run the place get fed up and kick out those that are causing the trouble, all hell breaks loose and after a while things either settle down with a general sigh of relief or option 2 occurs

Now, while I am in no way saying that TWC is anywhere close to these extremes I have noticed a worrying trend over the last few months where

• adherence to 'procedure' and 'rules' is being promoted over use of common sense
• Staff are becoming defensive and are reacting poorly but understandably to some challenges to them
• The level of what I would call 'petty' challenges is growing

All I would ask everyone is to please accept that all those who give time to TWC in whatever function (staff, admin, citizen, member) have the best interest of the site at heart.

Please accept that the rules here (ie. the Syntagma) are only really guidelines and that common sense and fair play are more important.

Please accept that it is only a website, people come here to have fun, staff need to be allowed to make that happen.

Anyway, rant over.

Tacticalwithdrawal, holder of just about every title going (including Imperator - but that's another story) at one time or another.

[Kagemusha]

Amen to what Tac just sayed.Great post.

[Nihil]

I hate "me too" posts as much as the next man, but at the same time I think it's no bad thing that some of us who usually stay silent where matters of state are concerned should occasionally speak up so that others can see on which side our bread is buttered, if you will.

In fact, the habitual silence of many is precisely due to our hatred of the kind of pointless nit-picking that has been typified by some of the participants of this latest tiff. This infinite attention to petty details cripples the executive power of the curia and paralyses the entire body. The interminable whining dulls the senses, slows proceedings to an agonisingly tedious, viscous crawl, and puts a lot of the people who would ideally like to be getting involved to sleep.

Who can blame the silent majority for wanting no part of the philibustering and dogmatism? To the casual observer it's hard to see what use the curia is at all, other than to cater to a "fetish for micromanagement" (to quote a memorable phrase from a source who will remain anonymous) that one or two members have.

The new era with its streamlined constitution can potentially release the curia from the bonds of tedium that have neutered it in the past. Don't let the obsessive pedantry and withering criticism of the vocal few divide and demoralise us all and ruin it for everybody.

[Denny Crane!]

I hate "me too" posts as much as the next man, but at the same time I think it's no bad thing that some of us who usually stay silent where matters of state are concerned should occasionally speak up so that others can see on which side our bread is buttered, if you will.

In fact, the habitual silence of many is precisely due to our hatred of the kind of pointless nit-picking that has been typified by some of the participants of this latest tiff. This infinite attention to petty details cripples the executive power of the curia and paralyses the entire body. The interminable whining dulls the senses, slows proceedings to an agonisingly tedious, viscous crawl, and puts a lot of the people who would ideally like to be getting involved to sleep.

Who can blame the silent majority for wanting no part of the philibustering and dogmatism? To the casual observer it's hard to see what use the curia is at all, other than to cater to a "fetish for micromanagement" (to quote a memorable phrase from a source who will remain anonymous) that one or two members have.

The new era with its streamlined constitution can potentially release the curia from the bonds of tedium that have neutered it in the past. Don't let the obsessive pedantry and withering criticism of the vocal few divide and demoralise us all and ruin it for everybody.

Christ I hate the me to posts as well and agreeing with you is becoming far to habitual, expect some flaming insults along any minute just to tip the scales.

I do feel that an obsessive clinging to the fine details, precise and accurate or not depending on who is looking I think, will ruin the curia.

Peter

[Silver Guard]

• adherence to 'procedure' and 'rules' is being promoted over use of common sense
• Staff are becoming defensive and are reacting poorly but understandably to some challenges to them
• The level of what I would call 'petty' challenges is growing

Quoted for truth.

All of these are things which are an especial danger to the present system. The first of which is one of which I have been prone to in the past. Pedantic and irritating whining about this and that regulation and 'law' can do no more then satisfy the self-importance of the person complaining, hense why I stopped doing it. I think the Curia needs to work out that the syntagma is not the be all and end all of their lives. Pie is the be all and end all of their lives.

The second is another thing fairly common and repeating over and over. This dates back past the time I was here, but have continued lately. Staff repeatedly acts out harshly and irraticly at those they belive damaging or irrational, or against one another. The only way we can fix that is by having less detached and cooler staff, the first of which has been done.

The last is connected to the first, and is something which ties in to the second as well. Too often issues, often pedantic and unneccisary, become the apololipse or nirvana to certain members and a grand cuffle is kicked up about it. Most Curialists are to blame somehow in this in that we spend most of our time in threads such as these sparking up little feuds and bigger arguments.

Basicly the Curia and staff overheat too often, we need a cooling system

EDIT: All names removed as per request

[Tom Paine]

Which Tac proposes. Unfortunately, I fear it may be giving Hex a lot of power over the Curia in terms of what it allows as emergencies, and that will annoy people. I mean I don't object to it per se, but some will.

[Obi Wan Asterix]

Right.

Please list and backup your genuine grievances with staff below.

A request - keep them to the point please, and no need for long windedness.

[Muizer]

Right.

Please list and backup your genuine grievances with staff below.

A request - keep them to the point please, and no need for long windedness.

A grievance with staff? Not quite, but a wish for a declaration that all members are equal before the law on this forum. I would like to ask Hex to include explicitly in the Terms of Service that these are the same, and are to be enforced equally for all members irrespective of their rank and/or title and irrespective of the subforum they are posting in. Thank you, Speaker, for your time.

[Simetrical]

I personally don't think it's desirable to punish a long-standing positive contributor to the community with the same harshness as someone who's recently arrived and been nothing but trouble. The balance of good and bad from any given member needs to be considered. This is not "equality under the law", but then, "contributing member" isn't a really meaningful concept in real life, either.

[Tacticalwithdrawal]

Right.

Please list and backup your genuine grievances with staff below.

A request - keep them to the point please, and no need for long windedness.

What, kinda like:

I think all Hex should be taken out and shot, they and staff are the cause of all the ills on this board with their despotic and arbitrary rulings, pursuit of vendettas and total inability to do their jobs without self-aggrandisement.

I call for a revolution and the deposing of the God-King imb.

(excuse me a second, the nurse is requesting I remember to take my medication - but it's difficult while wearing jackets that button up the back)

[Obi Wan Asterix]

What, kinda like:

I think all Hex should be taken out and shot, they and staff are the cause of all the ills on this board with their despotic and arbitrary rulings, pursuit of vendettas and total inability to do their jobs without self-aggrandisement.

I call for a revolution and the deposing of the God-King imb.

(excuse me a second, the nurse is requesting I remember to take my medication - but it's difficult while wearing jackets that button up the back)

That's a good idea Tac! Why didnt I think of that! Its about time we axe IMB's loveable yet tender neck

[Tacticalwithdrawal]

actually, I do have a specific (and serious one) - the case of Cassy/Ferrets

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...t=90112&page=2

Surely a bit of common sense could have been applied. The guy has posted fine whith no real issues for some months, rather than knee-jerk reaction and slavish adherance to the rules (ie. suspending the account) it would have made a lot more sense to apply a bit of common sense and allow him to keep the account, but transfer over all the old warnings.

I mean come on, don;t we ever allow people to evolve here?

[Lusted]

The Cassy/Ferrets thing is being discussed in staff Tac.

[Tacticalwithdrawal]

I assumed it was, I was more pointing out the way it was being handled

[Fabolous]

I assumed it was, I was more pointing out the way it was being handled

You disagree with them temp banning a member who is supposedly permabanned until the case can be discussed?


Asty, you will need to open a pointless ratification vote for Katrina sometime.

A grievance with staff? Not quite, but a wish for a declaration that all members are equal before the law on this forum. I would like to ask Hex to include explicitly in the Terms of Service that these are the same, and are to be enforced equally for all members irrespective of their rank and/or title and irrespective of the subforum they are posting in. Thank you, Speaker, for your time.

I disagree entirely. First, rules have never been inforced equally across sub-forums. Take the Curia or the mudpit, which have often had harsher rules than other forums. And then compare that to the hosted mod forums, where there is often lawlessness. All forums are not equal under the law. Second, I echo Sim's point on users. If a member contributes a great deal, they should be allowed more leeway.