New build help.

[PrPete]

Hi all. Here's the final updated build. I'm going to press the price button today unless anyone sees any problems.

I have a couple of questions though just before I take the plunge.

1) Has anyone built a system quite like this one? How do you rate it if so?

2) Does anyone see any potential bottle necks or problems with the system?

Case: Antec Solo Quiet Mini Tower Case £54
PSU: Seasonic 500W £70
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 £144
Motherboard:Gigabyte GA-965G-DS3 Socket 775 £71
RAM: Corsair 2GB 800MHz £117
Hard drive: Seagate 320 MB SATA £50
GPU: EVGA 8800 320MB Superclocked £199
Monitor: Belinea 1925S1W 19" Widescreen 5ms 850:1 £118
OS: Vista Premium (OEM) £66

Plus some other components from my current pc. ie. Sound card plus DVD drive.

I'd appreciate any useful answers you can give. Spending this much cash on a first build is quite daunting but I really want a good machine.

I've edited the first post as directed by Incinerate. I didn't think to do this at first but it does make a massive amount of sense. Thanks Incinerate and thanks for pointing out that RAM. After looking at the Gigabyte website I did decide to change to some Corsair RAM anyway.

PrPete


Use the edit button please! -Incinerate_IV

[Erik]

CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 £138

I recommend a E4300 or a E6420 instead.

The E4300 is much easier to over-clock because it has a 9X multiplier (vs. a 8X multiplier in the E6400).
And it's cheaper too!

The E6420 will come out next month, it's the same as the E6400 but with it's full 4MiB of L2 cache enabled (E6400 has half it's L2cache disabled, so you get "only" use 2MiB).
The price will be the same as the E6400 (which will be phased out).

Another option is the E4400, which will also come out next month.
It's the same as the E4300, but with a 10X multiplier.
I'm not yet sure if it will perform better or worst than the E4300.

Motherboard: Asus P5N-E SLI 650i Socket 775 Onboard Audio ATX 77

I highly recommend a Mobo with a newer chipset.

Go with something that has either an intel 965P or 975X chipset, or an nVidia 680i chipset.
The Gigabyte GA-P965 series seems to be the best at over-clocking, and the DS3 version has a very reasonable price (the S3 is even cheaper, but it's also less state-of0the art).

How much cooling will I need to add? The case has 1 120mm fan

Depends on how much you are going to over-clock.
But as long as you don't do anything crazy the single fan should actually be enough.
Core2Duo's don't generate that much heat, and I think your graphics card has an exhaust that blows it's hot air out of the case?

You might want to add an extra fan at the front to draw cool air in.

What happens if the motherboard goes and takes some other components with it? Can this actually happen or are there safety backups? Will the motherboard manufactures accept responsibility for this (assuming it's the mother boards fault) and replace them?

Yes, it can happen, but it's very unlikely, even if you over-clock like crazy.
AFAIK Motherboard manufactures only replace their components, not anything that happened to be plugged in as well.
I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[Freddie]

Hi all

Case: Antec Solo Quiet Mini Tower Case £54
PSU: Coolermaster IGreen 500W PSU £52
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 £138
Motherboard: Asus P5N-E SLI 650i Socket 775 Onboard Audio ATX 77
RAM: OCZ 2GB Kit (2x1GB) DDR2 800MHz £118
Hard drive: Western Digital WD2500KS Caviar SE 250GB £45
GPU: BFG 8800GTS OC 320MB DDR3 £193
Monitor: Belinea 1925S1W 19" Widescreen 5ms 850:1 £118
OS: Vista Premium (OEM) £70

Total £865

1) How much cooling will I need to add? The case has 1 120mm fan included.

2) Is OEM vista the correct one to get or should I get the full retail version?

3) Anyone heard of Belina? Any good?

4) What happens if the motherboard goes and takes some other components with it? Can this actually happen or are there safety backups? Will the motherboard manufactures accept responsibility for this (assuming it's the mother boards fault) and replace them?

Cheers in advance

PrPete

For a start I wouldn’t get Western Digital, I would buy Seagate. Do you care about noise? Then add in some third party coolers for your CPU and GPU (I don't know if they exist yet for the newest GeForce cards), also you might want a bigger PSU, I would suggest buying a Sea Sonic 600 Watt + for that sort of rig.

Your ram is damm cheap, can you tell me where you’re sourcing these products from because I'm tempted to upgrade at that price.

OEM will be fine, you can change things like the CPU and graphics card fairly regularly without worries but if you replace the motherboard with something else you might become unstuck when it comes to reactivating. Mind you if you’re a bit shady there are plenty of VISTA activation work round’s (just search on google), if you really become unstuck. Whilst your on google look for reviews for that monitor.

[Erik]

also you might want a bigger PSU, I would suggest buying a Sea Sonic 600 Watt + for that sort of rig.

Nah, 500W is more than enough for a single graphics card system.
You could probably go for less.

You can use a power calculator like http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculator.jsp to get an estimate of what you need.

[Aristocrat]

Rule of thumb on harddrives.
If your going for size get a Seagate.
If your going for speed get a Western Digital (Raptor...).

WD unraptor drives have a nasty habit of dying.

Get the Gigabyte DS3 motherboard as advised, it's cheap, it's solid, and it overclocks like a...a....hmmm...like some really good overclocking motherboard.

On the monitor, I have never heard of Belina, are they are a european brand?
The specs of the monitor seem alright, but I'd need a native and max resolution to be certain....and personally I would get a better known brand with definite manufacturer's warranty just to be safe. (but thats me and you are you).

On the cpu...I'd get one with a larger cache, the E6600 is good for that, but it might be out of your price range.

[Erik]

Rule of thumb on harddrives.
If your going for size get a Seagate.
If your going for speed get a Western Digital (Raptor...).

If you are going for speed you can better buy two or more regular hard disks, and set them up in a RAID 0 for your OS/Games plus a RAID 1 or 5 for your precious data.
You'll get better performance than from a single Raptor, more storage, better protection of important data, less noise, and it's cheaper.

On the cpu...I'd get one with a larger cache, the E6600 is good for that, but it might be out of your price range.

I'm not sure about this.
2MiB of L2 cache is quite sufficient.
4MiB sounds great in theory, but real world performance gains are small (about 4% on average IIRC).
And the cache generates a lot of heat, which means lower clock speeds.

I haven't seen a direct comparisons yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if over-clocked E4300's actually outperform over-clocked E6600's in at least some situations/benchmarks.
In any case it's going to be close, and the E6600 costs almost twice as much as the E4300.

[PrPete]

Hi all

Thanks for all your replies. It's given me a few things to think about.

I've added links to each item in the list below so you can see where abouts I get my info from.

Case: Antec Solo Quiet Mini Tower Case £54
PSU: Coolermaster IGreen 500W PSU £52
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 £138
Motherboard: Asus P5N-E SLI 650i Socket 775 Onboard Audio ATX 77
RAM: OCZ 2GB Kit (2x1GB) DDR2 800MHz £118
Hard drive: Western Digital WD2500KS Caviar SE 250GB £45
GPU: BFG 8800GTS OC 320MB DDR3 £193
Monitor: Belinea 1925S1W 19" Widescreen 5ms 850:1 £118
OS: Vista Premium (OEM) £70

ERIK: "I recommend a E4300 or a E6420 instead."

Are they any definite dates on when these are coming out. The only dates I could find were about the E6420 which said it could be past Q2 until they are released. I actually waited until now (from November) until I decided on a new build as I wanted to wait for vista. I reckon I'm just going to have to draw a line on waiting though and go with the E6400. It still seems like a good processor.

I'll also have a look at the gigabyte Mobos.

Freddie: "Your ram is damm cheap, can you tell me where you’re sourcing these products from because I'm tempted to upgrade at that price."

Just click on the link.

Aristocrat: "WD unraptor drives have a nasty habit of dying."

I have always had WD drives (non-raptor) and never had a problem. I've never had seagates though so can't compare the noise of course. I'll consider then for sure though. Cheers.

"On the monitor, I have never heard of Belina, are they are a european brand?"

German I think. Click on the link and you'll see it has 5/5 from 104 reviews. Seems ok and a mighty fine price to boot.

"the E6600 is good for that, but it might be out of your price range."

Yeah, you've gotta draw the line on Budget somewhere. I can always upgrade later.

Anyway. I'll come up with a new plan and post it when I'm done.

Cheers again.

[Erik]

ERIK: "[/COLOR]I recommend a E4300 or a E6420 instead."

Are they any definite dates on when these are coming out.

E4300 is already out.

E4400, E6320 and E6420 should come out on April 22, at which time all CPU's (both Intel and AMD) will drop in price considerably.
And I don't expect any delays because this is not a real hardware launch, just a different multiplier setting for existing Conroe/Allandale chips, so there won't be any technical problems.

[PrPete]

Hello all

Ok, based upon your recommendation's and a bit more research here is my updated build. I'm going to wait for the new core 2 duos to appear so the prices drop. See here for predicted price drops.

Case: Antec Solo Quiet Mini Tower Case £54
PSU: Coolermaster Real Power 550W PSU £77
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 £120 (Predicted price from 22 April)
Motherboard:Gigabyte GA-965G-DS3 Socket 775 £77
RAM: OCZ 2GB Kit (2x1GB) DDR2 800MHz £118
Hard drive: Western Digital WD2500KS Caviar SE 250GB £45
GPU: BFG 8800GTS OC 320MB DDR3 £193
Monitor: Belinea 1925S1W 19" Widescreen 5ms 850:1 £118
OS: Vista Premium (OEM) £70

£872 total price. I have the other components already.

A few more questions too.

1) Are all these components compatible with Vista and each other? How can I find out?

2) Will the RAM I have chosen work well with the motherboard? I heard that sometimes the speed of the memory can make it unstable. Should I go for slower RAM?

3) I am struggling with the PSU selection. What do you guys use and how good are they? Also, how do you know the PSU will fit the case? (Estimated power usage of the above spec is around 400W acording to the tool Erik provided - cheers Erik!)

4) Is this (Antec Solo Quiet Mini Tower Case)the Antec P150 without the PSU included.

5) Have I missed anything I'll need? Cables etc?

Thanks again in advance.

PrPete

[Doono]

If you are tempted to do some overclocking I would swap out the stock heatsink and fan for a 3rd party cooler.

This is one of the better ones:
http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/105994


I would also recommend buying a good quality thermal compound since the heat pads that heatsinsk normally come with are generally not as good as they could be. Arctic silver 5 is what I use but there are other good ones.

[Citizen]

Well the E6400 is a good choice. Just becuse something is easyer to OC doesn't mean you should get it. And the differences in becnhmarks between the E6400 and the E6600 arent worth paying the extra cash for (here in the UK anyway).

I myself have a E6400 and it's awesome!
PrPete, tell me how the 8800GTS 320MB performs when you get it, please. I will be getting a dx10 card probably somwhere around July and this seems like a nice buy. Also, hopefully by then the price will be less.

Currently I have an Xclio Greatpower Modular 550watt PSU that uses a 14cm low rpm fan so it's quiet and keeps the thing cool. Link here. However, if you want advice on PSU's check this. It's what I used to buy my PSU and it's a decent one. (it's in tier 2).

[Erik]

I will be getting a dx10 card probably somwhere around July and this seems like a nice buy. Also, hopefully by then the price will be less.

ATi should (finally) come out with their high performance dx10 parts in May, followed by their mid-range dx10 parts in the months after that (I'm expecting late June/July, but it could be later).
I'm hoping the competition will drive prices down.

I'm planning to buy a new computer next month too.
But I'm still undecided on what kind of video card I should buy.
I've come up with two strategies:
-Buy a 8800GTS 320 next month, and stick with it for at least two (probably three) years.
-Buy a mid-range DX9 card next month, and replace it with a DX10 part next year when I'm switching to Vista.
Which strategy do you think will give me the best performance for the euro?

[sdjenkyn]

I'm running 2 8800 gt's in sli and couldn't be happier. There isn't a game I can play at max settings with all bells and whistles going. I've been playing "fear" and average 95fps with everything cranked to max. Great cards but need to be run in a cold case as they exhaust into the box. Everyone i've talked to says buy Antec power supplies. They have the best rep and create some of the most stable power supplies out there. If you are planning on running in sli with 8800's you will need at least 750watt power supply as the cards wont boot at less then 650 watts. You also should be looking for a sound card.

[PrPete]

I've come up with two strategies:
-Buy a 8800GTS 320 next month, and stick with it for at least two (probably three) years.
-Buy a mid-range DX9 card next month, and replace it with a DX10 part next year when I'm switching to Vista.
Which strategy do you think will give me the best performance for the euro?

My opinion is to go straight for the 8800GTS 320MB; I think the difference in price between the 8800GTS now and in 6 months will never be more than a half decent dx9 card at the moment. It just won't be cost efficient. It's [the 8800gts] great value for money right now - even discounting the Dx10 capability - and with DX10 it's even better value. I reckon it'll easily last two or more years.

So do you have a spare copy of XP? Lucky you! I don't otherwise I would also hold off on Vista for a bit. I just can't justify buying an OS now and another in 6 months time.

[Erik]

I think the difference in price between the 8800GTS now and in 6 months will never be more than a half decent dx9 card at the moment.

Well, that's exactly the question I'm trying to solve.
But I'm not sure yet.

In 6 months time ATi's entire R6XX family should be available.
I don't know how good they are, but from what little I've heard the top model (R600) is expected to be a lot faster than nVidia's current DX10 cards.

But I'm mostly interested in ATi's mid-range RV630, and how it will compare to nVidia's 8800 GTS.

Looking into the future is hard.

So do you have a spare copy of XP? Lucky you! I don't otherwise I would also hold off on Vista for a bit. I just can't justify buying an OS now and another in 6 months time.

"Spare" copy?
LOL, I'm just going to use the same copy I'm using on my computer right now.
And I honestly don't give a damn about what M$ thinks about that.

[Arakorn]

...but from what little I've heard the top model (R600) is expected to be a lot faster than nVidia's current DX10 cards.

Yeah, right...

By the time they release a bad card (again), Nvidia will have out their new set, again...

[PrPete]

I myself have a E6400 and it's awesome!
PrPete, tell me how the 8800GTS 320MB performs when you get it, please. I will be getting a dx10 card probably somewhere around July and this seems like a nice buy. Also, hopefully by then the price will be less.

No probs. I reckon I'll have it all built by mid may -maybe even earlier - and will report back with some results. There are loads of reviews out there now mind; a simple search on Google will turn them up.


@ Sdjenkyn - I'll have a look at the Antec Supplies. Any particular model you recommend?

[Citizen]

I would wait till the ATI cards come out, but they're not gonna come out beating Nvidia's already fallen prices - that's just not gonna happen. Reason? Nvidia's cards have been out longer, so their price will have had time to drop. My point? Unless you're a die-hard ATI user/fan, no point in waiting for the ATI cads like I know most who are building over the next few months are doing.

[chris_uk_83]

Just a quick question here from somebody who's been out of the cutting edge of computing loop for a few months: is there any point getting a dual core processor since no software exists that will take advantage of it? Doesn't the same thing still apply to 64bit processors as well? This might be a daft question, but that was my impression of the current state of affairs.

[Spart]

At the moment, there are very few programs that especially support dual core. But since the new games are so demanding anyway, there aren't many single cores that can handle them perfectly. Core 2 Duo is the way to go, it beats single cores even in programs that don't actually support dual core. The manufactures concentrate on dual cores anyway, so the prices aren't that bad, so single core isn't really a good choice for a new PC.

The whole 64 bit thing was a piece of crap really, I have no idea why it exists.