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Thread: A 120 Year-Old Math Riddle Finally gets solved.

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  1. #1
    Darkragnar's Avatar Member of Ordo Malleus
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    Default A 120 Year-Old Math Riddle Finally gets solved.

    An international team of mathematicians has detailed a vast complex numerical "structure" which was invented more than a century ago.

    Mapping the 248-dimensional structure, called E8, took four years of work and produced more data than the Human Genome Project, researchers said.

    This Result could be used to test theories about the structure of the cosmos.

    Scientists and Mathematicians said they had mapped 'E8', a problem that was discovered in 1887 but has had to wait until the era of supercomputers and Internet linked minds to resolve. E8 is the mother of all so-called Lie Groups-A category of problems invented by a 19th century Norwegian Mathematician , Sophus Lie (Pronounced "Lee"),to explore symmetry.

    Spheres, cylinders or cones are familiar examples of simple symmetrical objects in 3D. But E8 is a piece of geometric origami that comes in 248 Dimensions.
    E8 is as complicated as symmetry can get said a mathematics professor at MIT,who took part in the calculations.

    Resolving E8 was a gigantic undertaking, the scientists said they compared it to the Human Genome Project, which patiently unraveled the human genetic code. The human genome is less than a gigabyte in size, but the E8 calculation is 60 GB big.

    It took 4 Years to calculate the numbers, An expert said the E8 breakthrough was a very important advance in Physics for it could be used to test a key theory about the fundamental symmetries in nature. Among these mooted symmetries is the structure of the cosmos, created by the big Bang some 13 Billion years ago, and basic particles themselves.

    The mapping of E8 is also unusual because it involved a large team of mathematicians, who are typically known for their solitary style. "People will look back on this project as a significant landmark and because of this breakthrough, mathematics will now be viewed as a team sport," said Brian Conrey, executive director of AIM.

    The mapping of E8 may well have unforeseen implications in mathematics and physics that won't be evident for years to come.


    A Picture of the E8 root system.

    The E8 root system consists of 240 vectors in an eight-dimensional space.Those vectors are the vertices (corners) of an eight-dimensional object called the Gosset polytope 421. In the 1960s, Peter McMullen drew (by hand) a 2-dimensional representation of the Gosset polytope 421. The image shown below was computer-generated by John Stembridge, based on McMullen's drawing.

    The lines in the picture connect adjacent vertices in the polytope, with colors chosen according to the length of the 2-dimensional projection. Since the picture is a 2-dimensional projection of an 8-dimensional object, it captures only some of the symmetries of the Gossett polytope.

    The Lie algebra E8 is 248-dimensional: the 8-dimensional space depicted here, plus one dimension for each of the 240 root vectors.

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    Last edited by Darkragnar; March 21, 2007 at 12:01 AM.
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  2. #2
    chris_uk_83's Avatar Physicist
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    Default Re: A 120 Year-Old Math Riddle Finally gets solved.

    I feel I could probably better understand the point of E8 if I could see the picture you've hotlinked (but doesn't show up on my PC).

    I like the 'unforseen implications' line, that's a great way to justify their funding .

    It's encouraging that we're still having large breakthroughs in maths and we haven't hit a dead end with it!

    Can anyone explain to me exactly what this E8 thing is and is for? The above post gives an overview but I'd like some more detail if possible (and explained in slightly simple terms, I'm only a physicist after all, not a mathematician).

  3. #3
    Wild Bill Kelso's Avatar Protist Slayer
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    Default Re: A 120 Year-Old Math Riddle Finally gets solved.

    Wow.. I have no idea what that is but it looks cool I see that and I think "mandala"
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  4. #4

    Default Re: A 120 Year-Old Math Riddle Finally gets solved.

    I see this and I think epilepsy.

  5. #5
    Søren's Avatar ܁
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    Default Re: A 120 Year-Old Math Riddle Finally gets solved.

    Quote Originally Posted by RZZZA View Post
    I see this and I think epilepsy.
    Indeed. Personally the picture makes me feel somewhat unwell. (I am aware that this is a horribly layman-ish comment)

  6. #6
    turtle's Avatar Ordinarius
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    Default Re: A 120 Year-Old Math Riddle Finally gets solved.

    Wow, now that's something you can get lost in. Especially under the influence of hallucinogenic mushrooms...

    I can see how the complexity of that could only be solved by our modern computers and network systems... it's quite intricate. I take it this isn't the whole structure of the E8, but simply the 2d version of it. Am I correct in assuming that, given my limited knowledge on the subject?:hmmm:

    If not, please, by all means, correct me.
    Last edited by turtle; March 23, 2007 at 11:22 PM.
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  7. #7
    Tecumseh's Avatar Watching, Waiting
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    Default Re: A 120 Year-Old Math Riddle Finally gets solved.

    Geez.

    Give me a spirograph and I'll give you a 249 dimensional structure.....

  8. #8

    Default Re: A 120 Year-Old Math Riddle Finally gets solved.

    they should have used that for the LOTR "eye".

  9. #9

    Default Re: A 120 Year-Old Math Riddle Finally gets solved.

    4 years? heh... I can do that in about 15 minutes. Maths easy for me

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  10. #10

    Default Re: A 120 Year-Old Math Riddle Finally gets solved.

    wow the human genome is one 1 gigabyte in size... And thats counting all the junk?
    But then again 4 variables is more complex and perhaps space saving than only 0 and 1

  11. #11
    Simetrical's Avatar Former Chief Technician
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    Default Re: A 120 Year-Old Math Riddle Finally gets solved.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiàhóu XiangLong View Post
    wow the human genome is one 1 gigabyte in size... And thats counting all the junk?
    But then again 4 variables is more complex and perhaps space saving than only 0 and 1
    The human genome has about 3 billion base pairs, each of which is equivalent to two bits, so it's about six gigabits, or 750 megabytes (one byte is eight bits). Yes, that counts all the junk DNA. What base takes up the most space depends entirely on the implementation.
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