Winter War Documentary (Discovery)

[wilpuri]

I found it hosted on youtube (where else). I watched it yesterday, it featured in the battlefield-series and I think its the best English language documentary on the conflict that I've seen to date. I hope you like it.

Enjoy:

[Yorkshireman]

I watched all the videos, very interesting. I knew a brief history of the Winter War but I did'nt realise the soviets had launched such a large scale attack on so many fronts. Mannerhiem was quite the defensive tactition. It was truely a heroic defence on the part of the Finns, it was a pity no European power was prepared to come to their aid due to the imminent hostilities with Germany.

[Perkele]

There were quite a few mistakes...and some quotes I'd like references to. Otherwise good document.

[wilpuri]

There were quite a few mistakes...and some quotes I'd like references to. Otherwise good document.

Well I'm not well-learned enough in details to spot the mistakes. What mistakes are you talking about?

[Spart]

Always pleased to see more of these, some people might not know about this conflict at all. The documentary was quite a bit better than the last one you posted.. Can't remember the name. Nice work.

I do like to hear about the mistakes however.

[Perkele]

Well I'm not well-learned enough in details to spot the mistakes. What mistakes are you talking about?

Well, for example soviet soldiers marching to the front...armed with submachineguns which at the time they did not have. That's not a big mistake, or even one I would actually care about, but there were some others that I spotted(and already forgotted, sorry). The Mannerheim quotes "ie. Finland will fall in 5 days, I resign *****".

Oh, remembered one. In one part the author claims that Finnish forces were jumping on top of the Soviet tanks from the rooftops of Summa village. Yeah, extremely likely...finnish supermen also burned the tanks with laser sight while eating bullets and ******** artillery ammo.

[wilpuri]

Well, for example soviet soldiers marching to the front...armed with submachineguns which at the time they did not have. That's not a big mistake, or even one I would actually care about, but there were some others that I spotted(and already forgotted, sorry). The Mannerheim quotes "ie. Finland will fall in 5 days, I resign *****".

I wondered about that, but I didn't stop to think further, I simply assumed they would've researched this stuff!

Oh, remembered one. In one part the author claims that Finnish forces were jumping on top of the Soviet tanks from the rooftops of Summa village. Yeah, extremely likely...finnish supermen also burned the tanks with laser sight while eating bullets and ******** artillery ammo.

I haven't heard about it either, but assuming there were any buildings left standing, I don't see it as something impossible. It is rather mythical, though.

[Town Watch]

Did I spot some t34s in the end of the 3rd video, at about 2 minutes and 11 seconds before the end? The turret looks slightly different though. Which tank is that? I suppose I'm just poor at spotting tanks, so it's not the editors mistake...

:hmmm:

[Town Watch]

it can't be the Kv-1 though. the turret is different at the gun embedding, and the one in the video is also sloped like a t-34, or is it?

EDIT: DAMN It was KV-1 after all!
EDIT: What teh **** is a panther tank doing there at 08.35 in the 4th video?

BTW: Who was the traitor who took the plans of suomi smg to soviet union?

There wasn't much about Kollaa though. The book: White Death was an intresting read about simo häyhä and co...Aarne Juutilainen must've been a kickass fellow."SINNERS, TEN-HUT!

I suppose they could have mentioned the suojeluskunta organisation and highly skilled NCOs in the beginning.

[Enemy of the State]

An interesting documentary.
I'm sorry for my traitorous coward government, because of us many Finns died, as they used Estonia as a place to launch airstrikes

Such bravery. I hope you get Karelia back some day.

[Pavlik the Rus]

I saw only 3rd video..... and without sound....
AND Can anyone tell me, what doing in this videos the documentary videos from battle at Moscow in 1941?? It's a different war! How it's possible - make a movie about one war, using the films about different war? Why autor didn't want to use correct videos? I'm wondering... This is not a historical movie, but some kind of pop-art. Or author is a simple dilletant.

That t-34/76 was deployed in army in late 1940, KV1 was in Finland in the last days of war, those women producing granades from SU's chronicles on WWII e.t.c.
WHY they didn't correct film.... Hah. I have no idea.

[Town Watch]

@Pavlik: so do you think the tank in the 3rd video at about 3 minutes and 11 seconds before the end, was a t-34 or a KV-1?

It does look practically just like a t-34 the sloped chassis and the sloped turret. Then again if it's really from winter war, it must be a KV-1, but frankly it looks more like a t34.

And there was a damn panzerkampfwagen V (ausführung D?)Panther there in some of those videos, not quite historically accurate for winter war isn't it ?


Lol first a rather credible looking documentary is afterwards throughoutly pwned by inaccuracies. Ah the irony...

[Pavlik the Rus]

2Town Watch

KV-1a on 8:31 before the end. That modification even did not exists in at winter war.
Ammm.... at 3:11 there is no tanks, but it is at 2:09
It's a hard to say, what is this exactly.... but this is not a KV-1 for sure. Even more, looks like that barrel even not a Russian. This is not 76 mm, 45 mm, and surelyy 85 mm. The caliber is too low.
I think this is English Valentine or MatildaII. And surelly, this tanks was acchieved by SU much later than winter war At 2:09 exactly it's a really looks like MatildaII
This is not a historical film.

[wilpuri]

2Town Watch

KV-1a on 8:31 before the end. That modification even did not exists in at winter war.
Ammm.... at 3:11 there is no tanks, but it is at 2:09
It's a hard to say, what is this exactly.... but this is not a KV-1 for sure. Even more, looks like that barrel even not a Russian. This is not 76 mm, 45 mm, and surelyy 85 mm. The caliber is too low.
I think this is English Valentine or MatildaII. And surelly, this tanks was acchieved by SU much later than winter war At 2:09 exactly it's a really looks like MatildaII
This is not a historical film.

Perhaps it uses film material from other events as a filler, because there isn't a lot of material on this war. It would be stupid to judge it by looking at the one of five clips, without sound...

EDIT: Town Watch, if you found the Kollaa front interesting, I sincerely recommend reading "Kollaa Kestää" By E. Palolampi. I read it for the first time when I was 10 years old, and it had a profound effect. If you wish to look for heroes, look no further.

[Pavlik the Rus]

2wilpuri

It would be stupid to judge it by looking at the one of five clips, without sound...

Firstly, i'll watch all of them with sound, as soon i'll arrive to home.
Secondly - "historical" film means that this fim must be historical,without using a falcification, no matter what reasons caused this falcifications. Or... maybe this is a mistake. No matter. In history this is not allowed

2 Town Watch
Look, here is a link to our Kubinka tank museum. There is no KV-1 there (they gave it to the Moscow museum), but i sure that you will find a fotos of KV easally in inet.
http://www.tankmuseum.ru/index_e.html
PS I was there.
PPS Maybe that tank t50 prototype. Or t26.... Neh... not t-26. Too big for t-26...
Look t-50 and Matilda
PPPS Damn! They have remove foto of t-50. Interesting why.

[Yorkshireman]

I find the aftermath of these events interesting. What is the situation in the former Finnish parts of Karelia today? Is the area still settled by Finns or was the area "Russified" after the war? Has the Finnish government ever made diplomatic efforts to recover lost territory or is it a closed episode in history? Has the fall of communism made a difference? Do the modern day Finns still consider this their land or is it now forgotten?


Maybe a Finn can answer this as I find it quite interesting.

ps. most documentary films use stock film of the times to fill up tape, most people can't tell the difference between tank specifications or types of armoured vehicules used 60 years ago unless your an expert. I would'nt say it was falsifying anything. The basic history of the event remains the same.

[Pavlik the Rus]

Here is an answer from another side.
Some Finns remains, but mostly they went to Finland.

Has the Finnish government ever made diplomatic efforts to recover lost territory or is it a closed episode in history?

As i know - no, they did not. And yes, looks like this episode is closed.

Has the fall of communism made a difference?

No.

Do the modern day Finns still consider this their land or is it now forgotten?

And i'm want to know this too.

[Yorkshireman]

Yes, I should have mentioned the Russian point of view. I find it interesting peoples caught on the wrong sides of borders due to warfare. Maybe because I live in a country thats been lucky enough to not see a major conflict on our own territory for a few hundred years.

[wilpuri]

2wilpuri

Firstly, i'll watch all of them with sound, as soon i'll arrive to home.
Secondly - "historical" film means that this fim must be historical,without using a falcification, no matter what reasons caused this falcifications. Or... maybe this is a mistake. No matter. In history this is not allowed

The footage used does not falsify anything, as the narrator explains what happened. Its used because there is nothing of the same period, or would you prefer a black screen with a voice?

I find the aftermath of these events interesting. What is the situation in the former Finnish parts of Karelia today? Is the area still settled by Finns or was the area "Russified" after the war? Has the Finnish government ever made diplomatic efforts to recover lost territory or is it a closed episode in history? Has the fall of communism made a difference? Do the modern day Finns still consider this their land or is it now forgotten?

All Karelians were evacuated and re-settled, Finnish Karelia was abandoned. Now it is completely russified (including Eastern Karelia), more or less. There seemed to be some willingess on the Russian side to correct historical wrongs right after the fall of the USSR, but the Finnish leadership was timid and nothing materialized. There are still some organizations advocating the return of lost areas, and the notion has some support, assuming that Karelia would be returned as it was taken - void of people. It generally isn't a political question anymore, though. It rarely surfaces in public discussion.

I still consider it 'lost territory', as in it was stolen from us. Still at the same time I recognize the reality and that it will probably remain "occupied" for the forseeable future and it isn't something that is terribly important to me personally. Besides, over half a century of Soviet/Russian rule has pretty much left the place in tatters.

[Pavlik the Rus]

2wilpuri

Its used because there is nothing of the same period, or would you prefer a black screen with a voice?

I'm still disagree. Say, does the norator tells that this videos NOT from winter war?

as in it was stolen from us

No. This is a war trophy, not the stealing. See the difference?