Extensive New Buildings Project

[Mylae]

Extensive Building Project


The aim of the project is to change the rtw building tree for a new multiple choice possibility of development.
Actually, one building leads to a single development; and not always upgrades are closely related each other. For instance, sewers develop in baths, and this is not a logic consequence, neither you have the possibility to choose another possible development.


Our idea is to give the player a multiple-choice approach, in which the player is faced with the possibility of develop one building in different way. This is allowed by the rtw hardcoded engine, however it has never been used in modifications.
The AI seems to answer pretty good.


Each culture group - and each faction - will have particular and unique buildings.
Particular are buildings allowed to a faction or a certain group of factions, e.g. an etruscan necropolis will be built up only by etruscans and not by greeks. Unique buildings are a set of several buildings already built - or with a placeholder - that will be created under certain circumstances by the player or via script; they exist only in certain cities, e.g. the roman forum who exist only in Rome, and could be upgraded ingame under certain condition.


Another thing is to substitute actual rtw buildings with new ones that will give different and several choices.


Several buildings are already developed, in development or wait some ideas to be shaped better. those ideas will came from YOU, reader





GREEKS

already done buildings:


COLONY


possible remarks:
1- high cost
2- too few time for building it
3- both levels are available on the "large town" stage

BUT
Is intended as a "fast" movement of population; colony were "launched" by the mothercity and people sent get money and sometimes slaves were freed. the fact that both are at the same level of development could be fixed, however by script it should get an x increase of population - maybe the right one to get the further level. in this way, by a building, we could develop faster the city.


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SCHOOL

possible remarks:
1- too high cost (expecially for the didaskaleion)
2- the diplomat recruiting

BUT
The high cost is intended as a cost not for the structure in itself, but for the teachings. diplomats should need a basic school training, and the didaskaleion offers it. however, the idea was to improve the preparation of diplomats, and that's why the "+1" works. a possible solution is to recruit diplomats only in governmental structures, but so:

agent diplomat 0 requires factions {eastern, } and not building_present_min_level scuola didaskaleion
agent diplomat 1 requires faction {eastern, } and building_present_min_level scuola didaskaleion

it should made sure that is not the didaskaleion to recruit the diplomats.


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LIBRARY

possible remarks:
1- the trade income bonus on bibliokapelos and not in the developments
2- too high cost for the developments
3- too much time for the developments
4- diplomat bonus

BUT
the bibliokapelos is a "book-seller", who commerce, while libraries and state archives are not. i know maybe is not a proper "line" of buildings; they are more "book-related stuff" and not the development of a single building. about the high time, we know that to make a true library, much money and time was needed, not for the building in itself, but because of the scarcity of books. state archive, like the roman tabularium, were collecting treaties and so on among books, annals and so; it seems me logic that diplomats should increase their knowledge.


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GYMNASION

possible remarks:
1- the Sphairisterion develop in a city and not in a large city (like Peristylion and Exedra)
2- there is a morale bonus for troops on Palaistra, Peristylion, Xystos and Sphairisterion but the others not give it
3- too high costs for high-level developments, expecially if confronted to base level
4- too high time for the high-level developments
5- the sphairisterion not develop on some other building like the other does

BUT
first of all, a Sphairisterion is a large spot of ground, used as a sort of race track, and occasionally as a military training field. So, since i could create max 8 levels of buildings, is logic that: 1- a land clearance for a sphairisterion could be done even in a village, and does not "need" many citizens, and 2- a large spot of ground used as a racetrack means that i will not build something on, so there are no more buildings there. The fylakeion or the barracks are reqired, since such a structure will be used sometime - or often - by the local greek military, who see it as a good place where to spent time, and the officers will encourage them in wrestling, running and so on.
Also, it offers a good happiness bonus and a +2 morale to "compensate" the better
bonuses that come from other developments.
As said before, military will like to frequent the gymnasion if there are some massive sport activities, even proper training; a skole, and its development, makes the gymnasion a study place, and in an akroaterion were held university-like lessons, so to keep silence is almost essential, and there is no fun in wrestling on the nearby palaistra if you could not cry. Study on philosophy, rhetoric and so on will make diplomats skilled, too.
About the high time and cost, it should be sad that the gymnasion could became large and complex structure; while a "basic" one could be just a large spot of ground, they like to embellish it with statues, marbles, proper rooms where to spent some time, get washed by olive oil and dust, and so on. it took a lot of money to be spent.


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SMITH



- 4.1- Sarissopoios (sarissa-maker)
- 3.1- Machairopoios (swordmaker)
- 3.2- Akonopoios (javelinmaker)
- 2.1- Stratopoiia (warsmith) 3.3- Kranopoios (helmetmaker)
1.1- Chalkeion
- (smith)
-
- 2.2- Douloi Chalkoirgoi 4.2- Douloi Techniteis Chalkourgoi
- (slave workers) (skilled slave workers)


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MILITARY GARRISON



1- Fylakeion 2- Fylake

The Fylake is a sort of military garrison; Fylakeion is a little one.


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DEVELOPED & WAITING FOR UI WORK ON IT:


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NEORION / LIMEN


2.1 Limen Emporikous (commercial port) => 2.2 Megas Limen Emporikous (large commercial port)
Limen
1- (basic port) 3.1 Limen Neorikous (commercial and military port) => 3.2 Megas Limen Neorikous (large commercial & military)

4.1 Neorion (military harbour) => 4.2 Megas Neorion (large military arsenal)



how they work?
1- the basic port offers very little trade and as only recruitable unit the triakonter.
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2.1 the commercial port has a boost on trade, and you could recruit just the triakonter, a cercurus and a merchant vessel.

2.2 tha large commercial port has a larger boost on trade but the same weakness of recruitable units; just triakonter, cercurus, a merchant vessel , pentekonter and a keles kataskopos.
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3.1 the commercial and military port is intended as the better compromise about trade and military necessities; it will offer an average economic boost and a good range of ships: merchant vessel, triacontere, cercurus, celes kataskopos, pentekonter, bireme, hemiolia.

3.2 the large commercial/military port will bring the same economic bonus of a little commercial port and offer the wide range of: triakonter, merchant vessel, cercurus, celes kataskopos, pentekonter, bireme, hemiolia, trihemiolia, trireme.
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4.1 the military arsenal will have almost no trade bonus (will just mantain the one of the little basic port) but units here will be a little cheaper due to the more skilled workers in here. units: triakonter, cercurus, celes kataskopos, pentekonter, bireme, hemiolia, trihemiolia, trireme.

4.2 the large arsenal mantins the very small commerce bonus and offers the widest range of military units with a +1 experience: triakonter, cercurus, celes kataskopos, pentekonter, bireme, hemiolia, trihemiolia, trireme, tetrereme, quinquireme, hexereme, heptereme, decereme.

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DEVELOPED COMPLETELY BUT WAITING FOR A PREVIEW:


(none at the moment)



UNDER DEVELOPMENT
NECROPOLIS
EMPORION
ERGASTERION
TEMPLES (SANCTUARY AND TEMPLE STRUCTURE)
SITOBOLEION (GRANARY)

[Mylae]

ROMANS & ITALIC PEOPLES

UNDER DEVELOPMENT
NECROPOLIS

[Mylae]

ETRUSCANS

UNDER DEVELOPMENT
NECROPOLIS
...

[Mylae]

CARTHAGINIANS

[Mylae]

CELTS

[Mylae]

LIGURIANS

[Mylae]

JAPYGIANS

[Hister]

Smith building tree updated in first post!

[Hister]

sorry, double post.

[Rorarii]

Mylay, I thought a greek colony would reduce over-population pressures? not increase it.

Others look good.


R.

[Mylae]

greek colony will increase local population in the captured settlement and (possibly by script) diminishing population in the capital city.

other ideas or remark?

[Rorarii]

Actually that might work into something I was looking at - in that players actually decide political and military policy.

Military Recruitment -
(1) Are you willing to pay for service? or is the city run on a militia basis?
(2) Do you allow the poor into military service? (non-skirmishers). If so AND pay for service, then a common barracks would be required.

etc, etc, etc plus other stuff for citizen rights and common law (protection of property) etc etc

I've divided the military into 4 sections
(1) Household troops - elite, aristocratic, paid professionals (Roman Eques)
(2) Regular troops - regular, middle / poor classes, paid (if allow poor in army) and mercenaries.
(3) Obligated troops - militia, middle-class, land grants (if free land) / citizen obligation (roman republican army)
(4) levy troops - militia, poor class, unpaid

I think this method of recruitment is more realistic than current one. You'd probably have only one different building for each section to recruit / hold troops. (1) would be a Palace, (2) Barracks, (3-4) Call up field "field of Mars"?. that's the only buildings required for recruitment?

There's alot more i haven't stated here.

What do you guys think? .. worth pursuing?


R

[Mylae]

very very interesting. personally i'm in favour of it.

what about to go here http://s15.invisionfree.com/Paeninsula_Italica
register in the forum and ask LucianoB to get into the internal forum?

please state more
i'm actually implementing few things for lack of time and good ideas like this one

[Luciano B]

I think that's an interesting enterprise, but in my opinion it may work if restricted only to those factions who actually relied only on a part of the population, like the Etruscans for example. In this way factions like the Etruscans with only the elites and their retinues allowed to fight, may use another form of recruitment after the development of the ad-hoc structures.
However I think that the peculiar kind of recruitment which was historically adopted by a nation are one of the disticntive features of a faction and have to be preserved also in the mod.

[Mylae]

i agree with you Luciano, but i was thinking also to the possibility of variating the army composition of Syracuse, for example. When holded by a democratic government they rely on citizens and greek mercenaries, while tyrants prefer to them mercenaries of various origin to prevent them sympathize with local population, and maybe this could be implemented such way.

[Rorarii]

Both are correct, the more historically accuate, the better.

Under the alterations I propose (see Recruitment Mod post) - Aristocratic run societies, especially older ones, may still rely on themselves to do most of the military work (middle / poor classes don't have access to the military, no mercenaries hired) while Tyrants rely totally on house hold troops and Mercenaries (middle / poor classes don't have access to the military, mercenaries hired)

If the non-aristocratic populations grow to greatly outnumber the rich then trouble will happen, a recruitment policy of allowing the middle classes into the military (As obligated? / paid? militia) will reduce the chance of this, and increase the wealth of the middle class (reducing the population of the middle class and increasing the aristocratic population).

Allowing the plethora of the poor access to the military, vastly increases the number of troops available, decreases the population of poor, increases the population of the middle class .. and greatly increases the chance of revolt (if not democratic government), something a ruler must plan carefully!

Once a democratic government is in power, the player, no longer has control over who has access to the military. All classes have access and he is just an elected offical.


R

[rory o'kane]

are those buildings from Spartan? they look very familiar!

[Mylae]

yep, partly based on

[Nelduin]

Looks good.
These new buidings will be viewable in battles ?