Who's in hell?

[Zeffen]

I'm going to state the question as simple as possible.

If a person was born, lived, and died without hearing the word of Christ or accepting the Lord as their savior, and never renounced their sins, would they go to Hell? Even if that same person never worshipped native gods or nature and was generally good in their deeds, could they go to Heaven?

Some examples to use.
A person living on the British Isles in the year 1000 B.C. would more than likely have zero knowledge of the Bible (Old Testament) or any of its teachings.
The same with an Aboriginal in 100 A.D.

This question goes out, mainly, to all the believers of the BIG 3. Of course athiests are the majority on the site so I have no problem with them joining the discussion.
Do try to keep it as a theological discussion. Answer the question from a religious standpoint, dont just say "well none of that exists, questioned answered."

[LoZz]

proberly not in hell - but not in heaven, as they havent actualy commited a sin,

i personaly dont think "god" is that bothered, as long as you have tryed to be a good person what else can you do? its not their fault they worshiped the wrong god.

[Zeffen]

That's exactly the question.

If there was no way possible for them to have ever heard, witnessed these things (but we're all God's children) where do they go?

Obviously if (in religious belief) we all have a soul, because we were all created by God, and believers and nonbelievers alike all die. Where does that soul go?

The basic tenent is that we're all born into sin, and we all need to confess to go to Heaven. Old Testament we had to sacrifice to God to not go to Hell.

[Dunecat]

The basic tenent is that we're all born into sin, and we all need to confess to go to Heaven. Old Testament we had to sacrifice to God to not go to Hell.

Um, wrong? You made sacrifices to atone for your covenant with God.

I mean it's not black and white, but most Jews aren't as fanatical about the whole hell thing. If anything, it'd be a temporary waypoint until everyone's redeemed.

Traditionally it's not the "fire and brimstone" nonsense, but more along the lines of "seperation from God". Basically a little worse then what we have now... because your totally cut off from God.

[Zeffen]

Um, wrong? You made sacrifices to atone for your covenant with God.

I mean it's not black and white, but most Jews aren't as fanatical about the whole hell thing. If anything, it'd be a temporary waypoint until everyone's redeemed.

Traditionally it's not the "fire and brimstone" nonsense, but more along the lines of "seperation from God". Basically a little worse then what we have now... because your totally cut off from God.

I dont know what Bible you read, but the descriptions of hell arent to fun.

On a seperate note: In the Evolutionary thought thread, nobody has responded to me. Wonder why that is?

Well, I'm an atheist, but I believe in Hell. Hell on Earth. When I behave negatively, I feel bad, and that's what i consider Hell: when we punish ourselves.
For example: I disrespected a Horse, my favourite Horse, and the next week i felt horribly! I woke up thinking of him, I did everything thinking of him and I fell asleep thinking of him. I even dreamed about him! When I met the Horse again, I reconciled with him. Everything was back to normal.
Another example: i disrescpected the girl I love, by saying something stupid. I pratically underestimated death, and I payed for that: another night in hell, thinking about my horrid words, until the next day: I apologized to her, I begged her for pardon.
I felt better. Much better.

But what about Heaven?
When you feel happy, you're in Heaven. it's a reward for something you did for yourself or someone else.
One example is when the girl I love taught me to do [insert equitation term here], and she felt happy, and she told me that, looking in my eyes... and then I felt happy. I felt like I was in Heaven. She did something important for me and felt happiness. i made her feel happy and I felt happiness.

It's that simple.

The feelings are Multipliet 1000 fold in each extreme.

(How do I merge my posts?)

[Dunecat]

I dont know what Bible you read, but the descriptions of hell arent to fun.

On a seperate note: In the Evolutionary thought thread, nobody has responded to me. Wonder why that is?

Well maybe you shouldn't read the CHRISTIAN BIBLE when discussing JEWISH TRADITION...

[Samuel_the_Great!]

The basic tenent is that we're all born into sin, and we all need to confess to go to Heaven. Old Testament we had to sacrifice to God to not go to Hell.

I am raised Jewish.The old testament does not mention a heaven or hell.That is strictly a christian notion.There is reference as to repenting for sin but nothing else.

[Banned]

Who's in hell?Well,interesting question...I will use an illustration to sum up with my post..



Another:


'You' refers to those who want to suicide.

[Tacticalwithdrawal]

The 'pure' answer is yes, if you are born after Jesus and die not a christian then you cannot go to heaven as you have not embraced Jesus.

However, I know a lot of christians who find that difficult to accept and believe that god is slightly more intelligent and willing to take into account your actions than that.

[Zeffen]

The 'pure' answer is yes, if you are born after Jesus and die not a christian then you cannot go to heaven as you have not embraced Jesus.

However, I know a lot of christians who find that difficult to accept and believe that god is slightly more intelligent and willing to take into account your actions than that.

It is true that many Christians think a generally good person will go to Heaven.
In their Book it says something completely different.
It takes a little more than just being nice.

[Anarius]

I'm pretty sure my grandparents are there, and I really look foreward to see them. Also: Bon Scott!

[sabaku_no_gaara]

The 'pure' answer is yes, if you are born after Jesus and die not a christian then you cannot go to heaven as you have not embraced Jesus.

However, I know a lot of christians who find that difficult to accept and believe that god is slightly more intelligent and willing to take into account your actions than that.

that's herecy tough, and those people will go to hell, and be worse off then those who just didn't know of god. (at least acoring to Dante)


IIRC Those who did not embrace God because they did not know of him or where born in the times before Christ, are in Hell, but are not suffering physically, their pain is to be absent from Gods Warmth

Personally I don't really know what to think off it.

[vizi]

Well like people said, they would be in hell however if you read the Bible you will know that when Jesus comes back he will judge the living and the dead. So those poor souls that died w/o knowing him get a chance to go to heaven.

But then again I don't believe in hell so whats the difference.

[VALIS]

Hell is filled with biker chicks,barbecues and heavy metal.
I cant wait to get there!

[allthesedamnnamesaretaken]

Hell is filled with biker chicks,barbecues and heavy metal.
I cant wait to get there!

I'll see you there buddy!

[Real]

Well, I'm an atheist, but I believe in Hell. Hell on Earth. When I behave negatively, I feel bad, and that's what i consider Hell: when we punish ourselves.
For example: I disrespected a Horse, my favourite Horse, and the next week i felt horribly! I woke up thinking of him, I did everything thinking of him and I fell asleep thinking of him. I even dreamed about him! When I met the Horse again, I reconciled with him. Everything was back to normal.
Another example: i disrescpected the girl I love, by saying something stupid. I pratically underestimated death, and I payed for that: another night in hell, thinking about my horrid words, until the next day: I apologized to her, I begged her for pardon.
I felt better. Much better.

But what about Heaven?
When you feel happy, you're in Heaven. it's a reward for something you did for yourself or someone else.
One example is when the girl I love taught me to do [insert equitation term here], and she felt happy, and she told me that, looking in my eyes... and then I felt happy. I felt like I was in Heaven. She did something important for me and felt happiness. i made her feel happy and I felt happiness.

It's that simple.

[iudas]

God should be all-wise, not some dumb medieval peasant.
Even though I'm not as cultured as other people (not sure on this site >_>), I'd say there is a part of Dante's inferno which deals with pagans who didn't have the occasion to embrace Christ.

I'll take my case in two ways, the classic way, and the sirpaladinistic way.

1. Classic way (church's way)
I'll go to hell because I never go to the church, never confess, rarely pray, make religion jokes etc. I'm a heretic who has doubts about Jesus because I didn't meet him and he never showed up in my dreams, but I seem to accept him. What's that? I'm a pagan. I go to hell. There I meet fascinating people of the classical age and even Muslims, who need to be pwnd 'cause they are damned pagans, all of these being, unfortunately, too busy polishing Lucifer's nails, and repelling God's attacks on Hell. Delightful...

2. Sirpaladinistic way
I'll just wait and see what happens after my life. I hope God doesn't get angry that I don't go to the church, after all, Jesus didn't want any Church.

Those being said, there's no reason behind the Classical view of heaven and hell, so my answer remains simple: the entity who created the Universe is certainly smarter than both atheists (ah, my eternal annoyingness) and Bible fanatics.

[Sadreddine]

About the Muslim view.

The basic principle is that anyone with even a grain or iota of Iman (faith) in his heart will get Paradise. And we have also been told that no human being can judge any other human being because we cannot see what is inside the hearts. The principle in Islam is that you can say that generally speaking polythiests and idolaters will not see Paradise, but you can not call any individual person to be a person of Hell-Fire, because that person may have a grain of Iman (faith, i.e. faith in Hanifiyyah or absolute monotheism) hidden in his heart somewhere. That is, recognizing some eternal principle, disdaining personal arrogance and acknowledging the insignificance of the self when compared to that guiding principle.

The Qur'an states:

"O you who believe! Let not some men among you mock at others: It may be that the latter are better than the former: Nor let some women mock at others: It may be that the latter are better than the former: Nor defame nor be sarcastic to each other, nor call each other by offensive names" (Quran, 49:11)

And this one, which I like specially, about the subject of the thread:

"To every people have We appointed (different) ceremonies and rites which they observe; therefore, let them not wrangle over this matter with you, but do invite them to turn to your Lord. You indeed are rightly guided. But if they still dispute you in this matter, then (simply) say: 'God best knows the value of what you do.' Allah will judge between you on the Day of Resurrection concerning that wherein you used to differ." (Quran, 22:68-69)

Thus, we don't really know who will go to the "Fire". At the end, in the Last Day is for God to Judge. And as repeated every day by every muslim in the world, God is All-Merciful, Compassionate.

[Garnier]

The Bible says that we are all sinners, and that we cannot be good:

[/SIZE]"What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are ALL under sin; As it is written, There is NONE righteous, NO, NOT ONE: There is NONE that understandeth, there is NONE that seeketh after God. They are ALL gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is NONE that doeth good, NO, NOT ONE"!--Rom. 3:9-12.


No where does the Bible say that if you are good enough you will go to heaven. The Bible says that when we believe that Jesus has taken the punishment for our sin and we accept that, then we are saved.

Since Jesus took the punishment for us, we do not need to take it. Thats what the message of the Bible is. That is why the Bible is GOOD NEWS!

[Holger Danske]

I'm still young, yet I already dance with the devil