FACTION: The Rajput States

[Miraj]

all discussion and progress of this faction goes here


DESCRIPTION
Faction Leader Title: Maharaja
Faction Heir Tile: Maharaja Kumar

UNITS

Levy Indian light spearmen



Levy Indian light javelinmen



Levy Indian light archers



Levy Indian axemen



Rajput spearmen



Rajput swordsmen



Rajput longbowmen



Rajput Ghandara spearmen



Rajput Ghandara axemen



Rajput noble swordsmen



Rajput noble archers



Rajput axemen cavalry



Rajput javelin cavalry



Rajput noble cavalry



Rajput noble horse archers

UNIT IDEAS

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Although the Rajput's are done, we can still come up with some ideas I think, for a future return to the region, or just general updates. This is also to simply keep track of tidbits of information that we might otherwise forget.


Bhil Tribesmen

1. Summary: Guerrilla Fighters, well able to hide in the jungles of India but poor at fighting outside of ambushes and the like.
2. Unit Type: Foot Archers, possibly that 'close bow' unit idea on foot.
3. Information:
   
   1. In feudal and colonial times, many Bhil were employed by the ruling Rajput in various capacities, e.g. as shikari [hunters] because of their knowledge of the terrain. Many had even become warriors in armies. They were in the Mewar army of Maharana Pratap Singh and like Shivaji , were experts in guerilla warfare which the Mughals had trouble with so much. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhil
   2. For example, you discover that the Bhils are skilled hunters and born bowmen. You will find many legends associated with the Bhils who occupy a very important place in the portals of Rajasthan's history. The tale of Eklavya, a Bhil warrior says that he was more adept with his bow than Arjuna of the great Indian epic, Mahabharata. - http://www.indianhorizons.net/best-o...our/index.html
   3. http://www.ngw.nl/int/asia/india/images/udaipur.jpg - Apparently the man on the right is a Rajput, the man on the left is a Bhil Tribesmen.
   4. http://www.mtholyoke.edu/~epandit/tribals.jpg - This is apparently a 'A stereotyped colonial image of Bhil 'tribals'. While stereotypical, it might lend an idea of what this stereotype drew it's inspiration from.
   5. The various tribes of Rajasthan are:
      Bhils The bow men of Rajasthan -
      Minas The militant defenders
      Lohars The nomadic blacksmiths
      Garasias The fallen Rajputs
      Sahariyas The jungle dwellers - [From http://www.india-travel-packages.com/india-tribal-tours/rajasthan-tours.html]
      This will need to be reinforced by our Indian experts, but such different Rajasthani tribes could help us with unit ideas, or faction names.
      
      http://www.rextours.com/rajasthan.as.../sahariyas.asp - Lists each of those 5 tribes with some light detail on each.
      As for those 5 tribes, the:
      1. Bhil and Sahariyas could be new guerrilla-based units, with hiding abilities. Bhil would use the bow, Sahariyas could use the javelin, or another weapon.
      2. Minas would probably just be our current Ghandara units.
      3. Lohars might not be an actual unit, rather Ancillary.
      4. Garasias could because of their fallen virtue be that idea someone put forth of a 'forlorn hope' kind of unit, with no armor, a two handed weapon, used in suicide assaults or martyrdom attacks.

SYMBOL AND BANNERS



NAMES

[PartyElite]

hmm, largely unoccupied/unseen. possibly not even being worked on now, but still thought i'd get some suggestions in.
Let's see.... the Rajputs.
-A collection of many tribes, grouped together because of their similar cultures. Having strict laws, and an amazingly loyal population. Unfortunately, this loyalty would result in rebellions (if they can be scripted) at a certain point of time (can't remember the year right now). The uprisings would be because the Rajputs began warring against each other at that time.
- The faction colours would be bright, something like orange and yellow, or orange and white. The reason is that the Rajputs have / had the dull and arid desert surrounding them for the most part. That's why (even today) people from those states have very colourful clothes, buildings and even food.
-Camels would be a common feature in their armies, and they'd be able to recruit elephants from some of their northern states/provinces. They'd have very strong light infantry. At the early stages, they should have one of the strongest militaries, considering that they've almost always been at war with the other Indian Kingdoms (mostly the Marathas to the south, not in ur mod), and the invading Muslims. I understand that the other factions have been at constant war too, but not to the extent that indian kingdoms were .
- not sure of any names that were poular throughout the Rajputs, but i'll check that out some time.

as for a symbol, this was just two minutes of work, but i thought i'd post it up nonetheless:

the image of the burning sun is common in some families' flags even today.

- indian_boy

edit: just remembered: the Rajputs called themselves the "Rajaputra."

[Ahiga]

Can you help us with what their army rosters would be? If you know of any conceptual art or images to how they looked, it'd help Alpha in creating them. Indian units has often seemed to be very elusive in it's appearances.

[PartyElite]

sure. i'm in the process of making a list including descriptions of the few i'm positive about. I'll keep updating this post as i remember / find out about more. here is the list for now:

UNITS LIST

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

On Foot

- Senapati
- Class: "General" or "Captain"
- Description: The general on the field of battle. He
is payed utmost respect, and his every word is obeyed
without question.Recruited from: nowhere. The Generals
in the game would be called "Senapati" instead of "captain" 
or "General" i guess?
_________________________________________

- Kisaan (need to check Rajasthani name, it's similar to this Hindi word though)
- Class: light infantry (peasant)
- Description: These are the peasant farmers of the 
Northern Plains of India. During wartime, they pick up 
their scythes to protect their country and their family 
with all the valour they can muster.
Recruited from: Punjab
_________________________________________

- Shikari (not sure if appropriate, it literally means "hunter")
- Class: Range (peasant archers)
- Description: These people make a living by hunting 
animals for food, or possibly hide, and birds for their 
feather or meat. They don't mind using their skills to 
protect their country, however, and will more than 
willingly pick up their bows and arrows to fend off 
invaders. 
- Recruited from: Anywhere
__________________________________________

- Tirandaaz (pronounced Teer-an-dazz, literally: archer)
- Class: Range
- Description: The archers of India have been famous since
the bow and arrow were first implemented on the field of
battle. Their bows were as tall as the carrier himself, and they
carried a small round shield on their left hand to protect themselves.
The strength of an Indian archer, multiplied by the amazing
craftsmanship of his bow, meant that the need for corssbows
never arose in india. The arrows could pierce through the thickest
animal hides, and even plate armour, but was yet thin enough to
slide through a chain in mail armour.
- Recruited from: Anywhere
__________________________________________

- Prahari (literally: Guard)
- Class: Light infantry
- Description: The equivalent of the 'town militia' in 
western countries. These people carry steel round 
shields (not coloured, but the decorations are 
symbolic of their clan/tribe/country) and spears. 
They wear light metal armour (im not sure, but it 
seems to  look like plate).
- Recruited from: Anywhere
__________________________________________

- Talwaar Baaz (literally: Swordsman) [RECRUITED FROM CITY]
- Class: Infantry
- Description: The Rajput swordsmen used to carry the
double edged scimitar (known as the Khanda) into battle
until the dawn of the Muslim assaults. At this time, the
Khanda was replaced by the lighter and easier to use 
Talwaar. The khanda had become a weapon that a man used
as a last resort, when one was fighting to the death, to show that
he was truly a Rajput at heart.
__________________________________________

- Levy Talwaar Baaz (literally: Swordsman) 
- Class: Infantry
- Description: These Rajput swordsmen haven't been
trained in the wielding of the newer and more improved
Talwaars, and instead use the traditional Khanda that
each Rajput man carries as a symbol of his 'nationality.'
__________________________________________
- Bhalavardar (literally: Spear carrier)
- Class: Spear Infantry
- Description: Indian spearman. MORE SOON!
__________________________________________

- Barchhivardar (literally: javelin carrier)
- Class: Range
- Description: Javelin throwers were not as respected or
as skilled as th archers, but they were still a vital part of many
battles. They carried long rectangular shields made
of various hides such as alligator scales and horse skin behind
which they kept their javelins. With great speed they could 
pick up and throw javelins at attackers, in an attempt to
reduce their numbers

Cavalry

- Ashvarohi (literally, horse rider)
- Class: Light Cavalry
- Description: These troops can neither be called the backbone, nor the
core of any Rajput assault, but the armourless horses and the
leather padded soldier are swift, and can be used to turn the 
tide of a battle. A true general can use his Ghorsavar to flank his
enemy, unseen and unheard, or they can frighten away archers
through a simple charge. But be warned, the soldiers are young
men owning horses. Their hearts may claim to prefer death over 
dishonour, but their mind still knows fear, and they often flee from
a battle before engagement.
Recruited from: Anywhere in India. (AoR unit?)
___________________________________________

- Ushtrarohi (literally Camel Rider)
- Class: Light Cavalry
- Description: These are the tribesmen among the Rajput who
prefer their "Ships of the Desert" to the horses. Upon their
camels, they are faster, and can travel better in the deserts
such as the great Thar, and that is why they were preferred
in desert warfare. Not only this, but the very sight of the beast
brings fear into a horse's heart, something that the riders know,
and use very well.
___________________________________________

- Ashvapeeth Tirandaaz (literally Horseback Archer)
- Description: The state provides the horse, and the rider
provides the skill. Indian Horse Archers are the best that
the world has seen. These are only young boys, who've
joined the military to protect their nation, but they readily
jump into battle, and quickly grow in confidence and ability
so as to be among the elite.
- Recruited from: (come soon)
___________________________________________

- Ucch Koti Ashvapeeth Tirandaaz (literally: Elite Horseback Archer)
- Description: These archers have been fighting
on horseback since their parents would allow it. They
are confident, and smile in the face of death. Their horses
are some of the best from the state's stables, and the riders
are equally skilled. Any foe would fear the sound of their horses
charging down the field as their arrows whizz through the air, and
they have every right to be afraid.
- Recruited from: (come soon)
___________________________________________

- Ushtpeeth Tirandaaz (literally: Camel-back archers )
- Description: (come soon)
- Recruited from: (come soon)
___________________________________________

- Ucch Koti Ushtpeeth Tirandaaz (literally: Elite Camel-back archers )
- Description: (come soon)
- Recruited from: (come soon)
___________________________________________

- Angrakshak (literally, bodyguard)
- Class: Heavy Cavalry
- Description: These heavily armoured men mounted on their powerful
horses are none other than the elite, in charge of protecting their king.
Valourous in battle, they never shy away from danger, and would give
their lives away to ensure that their king survives another day.
___________________________________________

- Gajarohi
 (literally: elephant rider, u might want Gajapeeth Tirandaaz for 
 elephant back archer?)
- Class: Heavy Cavalry
- Description: The sound of the elephant's feet thumping and
trumpet blowing will bring any man to his knees, especially
if the elephant is being ridden by an Indian Mahavat.
None can boast the excellence of these riders. They're equally
skilled in controlling their beast as they are in aiming their bows
at a mans heart as their mount charges. The Elephant is trained
since birth to be used in war, and it is treated with utmost respect.
The opponents are warned of the presence of elephants by seeing the 
ornate and colourful armour, and they have a chance to flee before
the battle begins.
- Recruited from: Anywhere in India. AoR Unit!
______________________________________________________

- Shasastra Gaja (literally: Armoured elephant)
- Class: Heavy Cavalry
- Description: armoured elephants baby! w00t! 
(real one coming soon)
- Recruited from: Anywhere in India
______________________________________________________

- Gajapeeth Barchhivardar (literally: elephant-back javelin carrier)
- Class: Range
- Description: (soon)
______________________________________________________

- Ushtpeeth Barchhivardar (literally: camelback javelin carrier)
- Class: Range
- Description: (soon)
______________________________________________________

- Ashvapeeth Barchhivardar (literally: horse-back javelin carrier)
- Class: Range
- Description: (soon)
______________________________________________________

PS: Rajputs wear saffron during battle or something. Not sure why... but they used to in many important battles... so the colours are 'correct' so to speak.

[PartyElite]

will be constantly updated as i find out more:

NAMES LIST

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Male Names:
Bappa 
Rana (yes, some were arrogant enough to make it their 1st names)
Prithviraj 
Maharana 
Dulla 
Banda
Rawat 
Bhoja 
Rao
Amar 
Maldeo
Veer
Rao 
Gulab Singh
Zorawar
Ganaga
Gopal
Bhagwant
Ratan
Gora
Badal

Female Names:
Padmini

Surnames:
Singh
Rathore
Panwar
Bika
Das

[PartyElite]

updated / revamped units list.
some of the names are up without descriptions and stuff. Sorry bout that, but those are up so that i remember them, and because i gotta go sleep now, and don't have time to write up descrpitions etc.

by the way, Rajputs were (apparrently) great horse-back archers, and possessed firearms and 'grenades' before they were introduced in europe. Unfortunately, the guns weren't too effective (i think... gotta check it out).
And the Gypsies (Rajputs) brought the knowledge of artillery to the west, so yay! Rajputs will have catapults and stuff....

[The Mongol]

Some primitive firearms would be interesting, wasn't it India who invented gunpowder and were the first to use it?

[Ahiga]

I believe it was the chinese who invented gunpowder, and were the first to use it. Thanks for the research so far Indian_boy90, that's a lot of hard to find facts that will come to good use.

Can you remind me for my own sake, are the Rajputs the Warrior-princes and kings who ruled the more desert parts of north India (I think Modern day Pakistan)? I remember hearing about that, and if that's the case, then it might be easier to do them, since as you mention, they were inclined to horse archers and while using elephants, probably relied on them less than deeper-Indian kingdoms.

[PartyElite]

yep it was the chinese who invented it and used it first. Indians had the technology brought in through traders and stuff, and its been learned that some indian melee troops also carried a gun to shoot off the enemy before charging them.
And yes Ahiga, ur spot on. Here's a proper explanation (from what i know):
The Hindu Caste System (the Varna System) is divided into 4:

Brahmanas (pronounced brahmin) - Advisors to the kings. They had/have a link with god, and it was/is through them that all rites and rituals can take place. dunno if they're preachers though? Im a brahmana, but rajputs were not.

Kshatriyas - Warriors of the country. These people believed in their swords' "word'... basically, they lived a very martial life, and were based on honour and dignity, and would often rather die than be dishounoured.

Viashyya - traders and merchants.

Shudra - labour.

Now, the rajputs were kshatriyas, and they felt that they were the best out there. To differentiate them from ordinary Kshatriyas the word Rajput was used, cuz Rajput means "son of a King". They had the whole martial life and were always very patriotic, and would do _anything_ for country and family. They lived in north-west india, true. But just before the timeframe we're in, they'd expanded to states of Punjab, Gujarat, Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh, and even to the east of india (as far as West Bengal [w00t, my state]). These are present day india names, so u can check a political map of india where the states are named. They even owned parts of Pakistan (Punjab for example yes there are two punjabs). In the timeframe we're at, the Delhi Sultanat has already taken Punjab, Delhi, parts of Rajasthan and almost all of Pakistan (not sure if they got the southern bit). So, that would be the situation Rajputs are in. As for the elephants, in india u find elephants in the waaay south (karnataka), or east (West Bengal, Assam). After they'd spread their rule, the Rajputs brought elephants in from Bengal, and their clashes with the Maharathas(a southern indian kingdom) made them understand the impact an elephant could have. So they used them, but not too much.

thats all i can think up for now. No updates on the list, will do that tomorrow when i get some more info.

- indian_boy

[PartyElite]

improved the 'cavalry' section of units list. Descriptions are up, but the names still need changing.

[PartyElite]

added more units. General's bodyguard, archers, and a type of light cavalry with their appropriate hindi names and descriptions are up !

tell me what u think!

[Miraj]

Just some important points on the Rajputs:

- I probably would not give them any horse archers. Its just seems a bit ahistorical and I would give them probably javelin cav.

- Since the Rajputs are a minor faction and since just adding any new units will be tough their factions roster will be limited and standard for now.

So I'll probably give them a light spearman, light swordsmen, light archers, light javelin horses which will be available to other factions as an AOR. And then some unique Rajput warriors (tribesmen + heavy swordsmen + heavy cav + archers). And we could mount the tribesmen and give them a camel unit.

- The forte of the Rajputs will be Elephants, they will get the highest yield and cheapest Elephants and also have two types (standard and armoured)

- I don't expect any sort of unique gunpowder element aside from standard cannons and gunners.

[PartyElite]

ooh, and naptha throwers! (renamed obviously, need to look up what their indian names would be!)

but i hope that that is only temporary (for maybe first few releases). And that in the future, they will get more units in the roster. I understand that Rajputs aren't the first focus of this mod, so don't think that im pissed or anything... i completely understand where ur coming from . I just hope that they don't remain under-represented forever.
oh, as for horse archers being ahistorical:
In the words of H. H. Wilson: "the Hindus cultivated archery most assiduously and were very Parthians in the use of the bow on horse-back."
.

uh, should i keep researching the Rajput?
and to not pointlessly make another post: are the Delhi Sultanate also gonna have a small unit roster? or will they have a proper unit-set etc? cuz then i could research more on them aswell !

[AlphaDelta]

The bulk of the units available to both the Rajputs and Delhi will come from a common set of AoR levy units. I think we should avoid having cavalry as a levy AoR unit, it just doesn't seem right that horsemen could be levied as horses were (and still are) expensive. The levy AoR units will be dressed as poorly as possible with no armour at all. Whether this is historical or not (or representative of earlier units) is secondary to the desire to have eastern units that look, and fight in a different way to those to the west.

As mirage says the Rajputs will have tribesmen + heavy swordsmen + heavy cav + archers + jav cav. Delhi will get a similar roster but perhaps leaning on the axe instead of swords. Both factions should get a wide range of elephants including: elephant archers, elephant javelins, with perhaps both having armoured and armoured varients.

Personally I like the idea of giving them some elite horse archers.

I have some vivid ideas for the Eastern factions and at some point in the near future, most likely after I've finished the med levy units, I will begin to work on them.

uh, should i keep researching the Rajput?

Please keep researching..Delhi aswell..The unit names and descriptions are excellent and can be used no problem. Also, whether we follow your research entirely, or partially, it's all very useful for guiding us in the right general direction.

Found a good resource: http://www.thelondonwarroom.com/Off%...indiaPage1.htm

Cheers

[PartyElite]

wow nice link... haven't gone through it all, but its got some interesting stuff afaik!

well, okay, as per ur post, i know what words and unit types i should type up. And so i did
Alright, i changed most of the names, cuz i was originally typing Hindi, but now i've written in what is called Shudh Hindi (literally: pure hindi) which is the best language to use for the ancient times. If u guys wnat a breakdown of the words, just ask, and i'll tell.
Also, i've got three uncles telling 3 different names for a javelin thrower, so i'll have to make a best pick based on their specific meanings, so don't have that up yet.

Oh, and by the way. These words (the Hindi names as well as the Unit desciptions) haven't been ripped from anywhere. I research in taking notes, and then paraphrase to make the description sound 'nice' compared to boring 'reseach material.' So don't worry about using it directly for the game.

and finally, if there are any specific unit type names u want, then ask me and i'll get the shudh hindi translation for that. It'll help give me focus on what to ask dad/mom/relatives/myself etc.

[Miraj]

Well there you go IndianBoy. As long as AlphaDelta is cool with more varied units then we're in business.

The thing with the horse archers is that it just seems very un-indian. While historically they might have indeed used it, this isn't a purely historical mod. I'm cool with one elite HA unit for the rajputs but not massed HAs like other Muslim factions, that would lose their Indian quality - I wanna see elephants!

[AlphaDelta]

Yes, and personally, I think the elephant units could even be cheaper than horse units. Having owned horses, and lived in a country where elephants are seen everywhere, the maintenance costs of the animals just cant be compared. Horses cost a fortune, elephants dont.

[PartyElite]

um.... ahem... ummm

okay, don't take this the wrong way. just to be informative. but, in india, horses r found almost everywhere. I understand that u want india to have an exotic look, so more elephants is _perfectly fine_ by me. I agree, it is what will attract people to the Rajput States. This is only for ur personal learning and interest :
in india, elephants are found only waay to the east in states assam or west bengal (both bordering bangladesh) or waay south in Kerala (west coast). The rajputs used to bring elephants from the far east to the far western edges to combat invaders. so they were fairly costly for the rajputs (though not as pricey as the horses, i agree).
again, that was just to inform u. I agree that indian states should look/feel different, and i know ur mod doesn't want history to bore down the gameplay, so i'm perferctly fine with ur idea!

cheers!
- indian_boy

PS: alphaDelta where r u from man? and u too mirage? just want to get to know the team a bit better

[AlphaDelta]

That makes things a little different then I guess. I thought that elephants were bred all over India. You learn something new every day.

Cheers

[PartyElite]

yep, thats the best part of making a mod for historical games like M2TW... everybody will learn something !

well, anyways, lets see... finally figured out the javelin thing, so i've re-updated the list with the new javelin peeps. Unfortunately, im a bit pressed for time atm, so i cant write all descriptions and stuff, sorry!

cheers
-indian_boy