Faction Leader Title: Khalifa Faction Heir Title: Crown Prince
Start Settlements:
- Baghdad: Capital, Large City
- Basra: Castle
UNITS
Code:
Abbasid Nubian Spearmen
Abbasid Nubian archers
Arab Tribal Warriors
Kurdish Javelinmen
Faris Axemen
Bedouin spearmen
Bedouin Archers
Faris Archers
Faris Cavalry
Arab Tribal Cavalry
Bedouin Camel Warriors
Abna Heavy Spearmen
Abna Infantry
Faris Lancers
Abbasid Heavy Swordsmen
Caliph's Guard
Dimounted Caliph's Guard
SYMBOL AND BANNERS
NAMES
Code:
MALES
Harun
Mansur
Muhammad
Zahir
Nasr
Jafar
Mutawwakil
Ahmad
Abdullah
Hamza
Ammar
Amin
Ali
Umar
Uthman
Muawiyah
Marwan
Yazid
Sulayman
Qutaybah
Walid
Yahya
Issa
Ibrahim
Mussa
Hisham
Abdarahman
Hakkam
SURNAMES
al Rashid
as Saffah
al Mahdi
al Amin
al Mamum
al Malik
Abu Suffyan
ibn Harb
ibn Marwan
ibn Muhammad
ibn Mutawwakil
ibn Zubayr
ibn Malik
ibn Muhallab
ibn Muslim
al Walid
ibn Issa
al Azzam
al Assad
of Baghdad
of Basra
of Nasiriyah
of Mosul
of Samarra
of Damascus
of Mecca
of Medina
of Yemen
of Hijaz
of Sana
of Muscat
of Bahrain
of Tikrit
of Karbala
of Buraydah
of Jubayl
FEMALE
Aisha
Fatima
Lama
Hira
Dana
Yasmin
Aziza
Aidah
Ayah
Umm Banin
- Same as vanilla, just reskinned to look better and a bit more colorful
Peshmerga Warriors
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
- Kurdish Tribesmen in the service of the Abbasids
- Lamellar
- Same model as Kurdish Javelinmen, except will have a sword and round shield instead.
- Will double up as a merc unit.
Arab Tribal Warriors
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
This will be an early level attack infantry. Good on attack, mediocre on defense, good stamina, good morale, and desert bonus.
I'm really not sure what model to use, CA didn't really give us much to work with. I'm guessing a good model could be either urban militias, the model used for the naffatun, perhaps berber spearmen from the moors or dismounted arab cav. I'm really no expert on this so its your call.
Protection: Partial mail or Scaled Lamellar at most. We don't need upgrades.
Sheild: Large Round Shield with traditional arabic on it. Like in the above pic on the right.
Abna Infantry
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
The guy in the middle is an Abna Infantryman.
Summary: Heavy spearmen, excellent for defensive and can hold the line very well. Medium in attack.
Models: The picture above shows a bulky individual. Is it possible to "mix and match" Lansnkecth Pikemen with Lamtuna Spearmen bodies? Perhaps the "hat" can be exchanged with a conical helment. I really need to know what AlphaDelta can do with the mesh editor and what he can't before we go any further.
Primary Weapon: Medium Spear (not as long as tercios/landsnekhts, not as short as dism arab cav), preferably in some sort of spear wall formation.
Secondary Weapon: Mace. Alt clicking will result in them engaging with maces.
Protection: Light Mail -> Heavy Mail. Or just heavy mail. Whatever you prefer Alpha.
Abbasid Swordsmen
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
- Expensive armoured swordsmen, dismounted qapukulu model with straight sword and lamellar.
- Very low yield/pool size.
- Available at last citadel barracks.
- Same as Tribal Arabs except on camel
- Sword
- same shield
Faris Cavalry
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Ahiga posted this earlier.
Basically they will be a more expensive, slower and horse archer unit.
I like the idea of the above cavalry on the right. He looks very unique and colorful. If we could remodell, reskin Arab cav and give them a bow and that kind of sheild it would be awsome. Also make the horse saddle the same pattern as the dude on the right.
- Costlier cav unit
- Slower horse
- Good melee stats (like monaspas for the georgians)
- Lower rate of fire
- Lower ammunition
- Alright charge, not as bad as horse archers, not as good as ghulams.
Protection: No armour on horse. Padded up to lameller or partial mail. Helmet similar to the cavalry on the right in the pic above.
Here's another pic that should give you an idea of the rider:
Primary Weapon: Bow, much lower ammunition and rate of fire.
Secondary Weapon: Charge and Melee fighting with lance. (if possible)
Shield: Varying colors of the cavalryman on the right in above pic.
Ghulam Cavalry
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
- Medium/Heavy Cav unit
- 3 UG levels. Its worth it since they will be featured for multiple factions. MORE SOON
Summary: Elite Archers with a powerful attack and stakes ability. The Zanj are black slaves bought from East Africa to work as hard labourers in Egypt and Iraq. The lucky ones get to fight/die for the Sultan. Melee will be mediocre.
- Basic Reskin of egypts 'Nubian Archer'. Will be available to Egypt and Abbasids.
- The second upgrade (padded) for the Nubian involves the original african model becoming covering and looking just like desert archers. We will avoid this.
- UG0: Nubian Archers simply recoloured and retextured as you see fit.
- UG1: Same as above but with a mail vest of some sort. Keep African looking model though
Dismounted Faris
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
- A dismounted version of the above Faris cav.
- Similar to Ottoman infantry
- Start as non-skirmisher archer
- Good Melee
- Good Attack
- Secondary weapon: Mace or something cool like that.
please give muslims good archers
egyp's and moor's archers are lame...and this is one of the two reasons i didnt liked playing muslims on vanilla (the secend is the lack of good caslt units for egypt)
please give muslims good archers
egyp's and moor's archers are lame...and this is one of the two reasons i didnt liked playing muslims on vanilla (the secend is the lack of good caslt units for egypt)
Nubian/Zanj Archers will be the elite archers with the best attack and stakes ability. They won't be as strong in melee though.
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Added reference images for Bedouin Warriors and Arab Swordsmen.
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This is a first draft for the Abbasid Faction symbol. Will need to photoshop this into a beauty.
and the same lack of armour. They will scare infantry.
This wasn't really necessarily true. Once the Arabs following Muhammad's successors got mail, they used it and were pretty well armored. There was a story about a duel between two arab champions where they could not kill one another because the mail pretty much covered their bodies, and it was only when one of them could find a weak spot, rip it or exploit it and stab the other was the duel finished.
I don't think we should necessarily consign this unit to be lightly armored. I'll try and look up information on the Abbassids soon, since they are one I do have information on (Check one of the ebooks I sent) Something the armies of islam 7th-11th century (out of date but still) book I sent you mentions is that Arab cavalry seemed more adaptive or ready to fight on foot than on horseback (Compared to their byzantine foes). It might do good to feature a sort of axe or sword wielding dismounted arab cavalryman. It's a bit difficult right now without editing meshes, but perhaps if you could dismount the cavalry units which feature bow, shield, and mace (or just bow, shield and axe), we could have a good dismounted cavalryman without a spear. Heck, we could even use a european unit assuming the shield's match up - Burrek made an eastern european spearmen look thoroughly andalusian moorish.
Here we go, go to page 19-20 of the Armies of Islam book I sent you. It mentions "Ahdath" or city militias, though this is for the Abbasids. Details though are sketchy. It then mentions what could make for a really good unit, the Abna, some sort of prestigious military corps based in Baghdad. It mentions their weapons, which includes a long pike, and says that they were usually armored, but would fight without cuirass or shield. On 21 it mentions a Khurasani infantry, another professional infantrymen from Iran that seems to be wielding shield and bow. I can't say if this is meant for the Abbasids or not, since the book is on 7th-11th century Islam.
By the way Mirage, This wasn't really necessarily true. Once the Arabs following Muhammad's successors got mail, they used it and were pretty well armored. There was a story about a duel between two arab champions where they could not kill one another because the mail pretty much covered their bodies, and it was only when one of them could find a weak spot, rip it or exploit it and stab the other was the duel finished.
I don't think we should necessarily consign this unit to be lightly armored. I'll try and look up information on the Abbassids soon, since they are one I do have information on (Check one of the ebooks I sent) Something the armies of islam 7th-11th century (out of date but still) book I sent you mentions is that Arab cavalry seemed more adaptive or ready to fight on foot than on horseback (Compared to their byzantine foes). It might do good to feature a sort of axe or sword wielding dismounted arab cavalryman. It's a bit difficult right now without editing meshes, but perhaps if you could dismount the cavalry units which feature bow, shield, and mace (or just bow, shield and axe), we could have a good dismounted cavalryman without a spear. Heck, we could even use a european unit assuming the shield's match up - Burrek made an eastern european spearmen look thoroughly andalusian moorish.
Here we go, go to page 19-20 of the Armies of Islam book I sent you. It mentions "Ahdath" or city militias, though this is for the Abbasids. Details though are sketchy. It then mentions what could make for a really good unit, the Abna, some sort of prestigious military corps based in Baghdad. It mentions their weapons, which includes a long pike, and says that they were usually armored, but would fight without cuirass or shield. On 21 it mentions a Khurasani infantry, another professional infantrymen from Iran that seems to be wielding shield and bow. I can't say if this is meant for the Abbasids or not, since the book is on 7th-11th century Islam.
Sorry bout the late reply, I kind of missed this post.
As the arabs conquered more they did indeed aquire heavy armour for their horse and for infantry.
But the bedouin warriors represent just the the native desert tribes and their rank and file serving the caliph.
The Arab swordsmen represent the settled higher arab classes of Iraq and Egypt and will be armoured well.
The Abna sounds like an excellent idea. We could reskin the pike militia of the Europeans into more of an arab look. That could be the first defensive phalanx for the Arabs. This is not completely ahistorical. The Arabs and Berbers that conquered spain regularly employed phalanx formations, or so I've read.
Perhaps we could name them "Abna Pike Militia" and have them trained from the highest city palace.
I'm unsure if the pike formation was like a european one, but yeah, that would be a very distinctive and 'exotic' unit for a muslim faction. We can try and look up what their city militias were armed like soon.
And my bad about the tribal arabs.
Something that's been nagging at me too is the faris units. It seems like the bow was not as pivotal to the arabs as it was to the turks. I've come across more than a few mentionings of the lance and sword actually being the primary arms of an arab or non-turkified near eastern (Not including Persia) Muslim cavalryman.
That Persian cavalry unit you wanted to feature for the Transoxanians could work for a Faris Cavalryman too, though using a different model (I'd say the lower of the mail and plate upgrades. The Tier 1 instead of the tier 2).
Also, the osprey books deal often with the subject of horse armor. You or I should look through it. It seems to say that in lieu of metal armor, felt was often used.
I'm unsure if the pike formation was like a european one, but yeah, that would be a very distinctive and 'exotic' unit for a muslim faction. We can try and look up what their city militias were armed like soon.
And my bad about the tribal arabs.
Something that's been nagging at me too is the faris units. It seems like the bow was not as pivotal to the arabs as it was to the turks. I've come across more than a few mentionings of the lance and sword actually being the primary arms of an arab or non-turkified near eastern (Not including Persia) Muslim cavalryman.
That Persian cavalry unit you wanted to feature for the Transoxanians could work for a Faris Cavalryman too, though using a different model (I'd say the lower of the mail and plate upgrades. The Tier 1 instead of the tier 2).
Also, the osprey books deal often with the subject of horse armor. You or I should look through it. It seems to say that in lieu of metal armor, felt was often used.
The thing is I don't want to give too strong cav units to the Abbasids. Its a game balance issue. Their strength should lie in their massed infantry, powerful nubian archers, advanced naffatun and pretty good melee swordsmen (arab swords and bedouins).
But I guess you're right about the archery part. Should we make the Faris stronger or weaker than the existing ghulams then?
The thing is I don't want to give too strong cav units to the Abbasids. Its a game balance issue. Their strength should lie in their massed infantry, powerful nubian archers, advanced naffatun and pretty good melee swordsmen (arab swords and bedouins).
But I guess you're right about the archery part. Should we make the Faris stronger or weaker than the existing ghulams then?
my friend,the armies of the abbasids under the reign of an nassir were very cuz the caliphate lost most of his empire so he has only iraq to recruit soldiers,and arab tribes auxillaries,so the idea of black african nubian archers is very rediculas cuz nubians live in egypt and sudan and egypt is the outside the authority of the caliph.I suggest the following
1-turkoman mercenaries.
2-arab heavy infantry.
3-forget the kudrds cuz the whole of north iraq including mosul was under the rule of husam edin loa loa (from the family of nur edin).
4-caliph body gaurd is the elite unite of the abbasids.
5-the army of the late abbasids did't have heavy cavarly,and unlike the turks and the ayyubids they depent on infantry and they heavily depent on mercenaries.
6-when the mongols began to send scouts campagns to iraq after they(mongols) destroyed the khwarezmids,they defeated the abbassids army near dejla river but the ayyubids under the reign of ''asaleh nejm din ayoub'' sent 10,000 soldier the save the caliph,so making an alliance between the ayyubids and the abbasids and making a military access agrement will be great.
Ya Jermagon, you must remember the Marsh arabs!
There was a great migration of Nubian slaves who became free and who came from Southern Basra. They might not have used as many Nubians as the Egyptians but they still had a sizeable amount.
Ya Jermagon, you must remember the Marsh arabs!
There was a great migration of Nubian slaves who became free and who came from Southern Basra. They might not have used as many Nubians as the Egyptians but they still had a sizeable amount.
my friend,there were no african slaves in the army of hte 13th century abbasids,and u mean the zenj revolt which took place in the 9th century(868-883AD),when the african slaves who worked in the fields of basra revolted againest the caliphate,and they captured basra and enslaved its population,and after many battles and many defeats al mowafeq talha_the caliph's brother could perish the revolt,and exectuted all the black africans who participated in this revolt,and Ali ben Ahmed the leader of the revolt was captured and beheaded By the caliph.
Note:this african slaves were brought from east africa (modern tanzania)not nubia.
unlike slave market in egypt and north africa who sold black african slaves,iraq and iran were interisted in buying turkish and slavic slaves.
by the way I have a book about the late abbasid army-it's in arabic- and there's no any indication of african/nubian soldiers served in this army
I would imagine that the bow was not as important for the settled arabs that dominated Syria and Egypt, etc...as generally it is not for settled people (sans the english/welsh, apparently). Likewise, the Ottomans were not exception due to their bowmen as opposed to the sheer efficiency (pre-janissary revolts, heh) of the military machine...
Well, I'd keep the faris horse archer unit, and I understand your reasoning behind it. It's a difficult line to tread of balance with accuracy and or simply 'fun'. I'm of a belief that you can have factions feature a wide range of powerful units but find a hindrance to still provide some balance. There were some issues in RTR or EB where the romans could recruit heavy cavalry that was pretty darn powerful, but they were limited to the Italian Pennisula. With some of the new features of MTWII (Unit pools being a specific number, requiring a certain amount of time to replenish), we could find a way to better make things balanced.
Some methods of balance would be:
Abbassids have smaller recruitment pools and longer refreshing times for their spear faris.
Abbassid Lance Faris lack the armor that makes Transoxanian cavalry or Ghulams (Possibly horse armored, whether felt or metal) able to really stand up in a melee, and forces the Lance Faris to operate in the attack-retreat-attack Arabic Fighting style.
Abbassid Horses are less heavy (Lower mass = Less formation penetration and shock power) than Transoxanian or Turkish horses.
AOR (Not sure how this could work though given there wasn't really an AOR concept behind recruiting cavalry)
What I would do is make the Caliph's Guard non-recruitable and limited to Generals only. After that, I'd possibly make the Faris lancers into a light-medium cavalry, and the ghulams into a medium-heavy cavalry. The Ghulams would have felt horse armor (Cloth) and be heavy cavalry, but less heavy than other Heavy cavalry.
The Abbassid Faris Lancers and Ghulams would have low recruitment pools and take awhile to refresh, encouraging or enforcing players to rely more on their infantry than their cavalry. The beauty of recruitment pools is that you can make it as plentiful or as rare as you wish. Perhaps their pools are only 2 units and it takes 5 turns for it to refresh by 1 unit. Or perhaps it takes 20 turns to refresh by 2 units and their pools are 2 units. In the span of X amount of turns, Seljuks could recruit a large amount of cavalry, Transoxanian's a medium amount, and abbassids a small amount. With cost as well as this, you can still force the Abbassids to rely on their infantry, but feature a very prized and very limited amount of cavalry, not superior to their more cavalry-inclined neighbors but not utterly nerfed.
I would like to have a unit in black uniform with golden calligraphy on their sleeves. On the head, a black turban on a helmet. This can be a specific unit you can look on the film kingdom of heaven with saladin and the woung man who wants to attack jerusalem. I like this uniform
I'd want to note it was a mistake on my part regarding the Faris lance cavalry. It seems that was the tradition of the Fatimids (And may or may not have carried over to the Ayyubids) to fight with lance and sword on horseback, it may not have been as pivotal or critical to the Abbasids.
That being said, I still would suggest a change where they have Faris Lancers (Light-medium cavalry), Ghulams (medium-Heavy) and a non-recruitable, general-unit Caliph's Guard (Heavy-Superheavy). You can feature balance methods (low horse mass, or my preference being low unit pools and long refresh rates for Abbasid cavalry) to keep the infantry preference of the Abbasids. It bears mentioning that it seems that the Ayyubids inherited the heavy infantry reliance of the Fatimids, though. Have we checked to see if there's historical contet for the Abbasids to be infantry-focused? Or is that just a preference for the mod to add diversity?
I'd also suggest a possible medium-tier archer unit. The English had longbowmen for low, medium, high, and ultra high quality, and while we don't need something as extensive, I do think it would be proper to feature a middle of the road bowmen unit.
My suggestion would be (Without any historical backing on this right now) an ottoman-Infantry kind of archer. Probably something of a middle class bowmen militia.
You are right. Islamics factions were destroyed by ottomans but if they other faction survive so the technolgoies and units upgrade. It's logic.
That is the problem of MTW, devs stop the evolution of units with the end of the faction. But in my alomhad campaign, I'm in 1400 and my units are older...
It's a problem... And in this mod, it's a good idea to make evolution of units for all factions.
FACTION: The Abbasid Caliphate
Abbasid Nubian archers
Arab Tribal Warriors
Kurdish Javelinmen
Faris Axemen
Bedouin spearmen
Bedouin Archers
Faris Archers
Faris Cavalry
Arab Tribal Cavalry
Bedouin Camel Warriors
Abna Heavy Spearmen
Abna Infantry
Faris Lancers
Abbasid Heavy Swordsmen
Caliph's Guard
Dimounted Caliph's Guard
Originally Posted by kobi118
