(Moved to Vote)Self Proposal...Proposal!

[Perikles]

After seeing RTR Fan's proposal here, I thought this was the perfect time to move this to the Prothalamos and get this into legislation as I know I'm not the only one who likes this idea. So here it is, I've tweaked his idea a bit:

Self Proposal Amendment

Proposer: Perikles (based on RTR Fan's idea)
Supporters:

Article 3 - Patronisation

Any Citizen holding their rank for three months can patronise a Peregrinus for citizenship subject to the requirements in Article 1 above. In addition to this Peregrinus may also nominate themselves. The 2 processes of patronisation is as follows.are listed below.

Patronisation

1. The patron confirms the candidate meets the requirements, OR a candidate meeting the requirements contacts a Citizen asking for patronage.
2. The nominee sends the patron a PM explaining his duties and privileges as a Citizen, and his contributions to the community. The patron forwards this paragraph, along with his own, outlining why he nominated this member, to a CdeC member.
3. The CdeC member opens a thread in the CdeC Forum and the proposed nominee is discussed and voted upon.
4. If the nominee achieves sixty per cent of the non-abstaining votes, he becomes a Citizen.
5. The Speaker of the House promotes the member to Citizen, with a Citizen badge, and contacts him as to whether he would like to remain a Citizen, or further self define as an Artifex or Civitate.

Self Proposal

1. The Peregrinus posts in the 'Self Proposal' thread which shall be stickied in the Questions and Suggestions forum. They must meet the requirements for the rank and state their reasons for being eligible.
2. After 3 days, the Speaker of the House will open a thread in the CdeC forum and the proposed nominee is discussed and voted upon.
3. If the nominee achieves sixty per cent of the non-abstaining votes, he becomes a Citizen.
4. The Speaker of the House promotes the member to Citizen, with a Citizen badge, and contacts him as to whether he would like to remain a Citizen, or further self define as an Artifex or Civitate.

If a nominee fails his vote, he is not eligible to be considered again for one month. Members of the CdeC must abstain from voting on members they patronise. All CdeC votes must be concluded within seven days of the thread being opened in the CdeC.

[Tom Paine]

Supported, love it.

[the Black Prince]

don't support, a process for self proposal is already in the constitution

in the very section you quoted above

The patron confirms the candidate meets the requirements, OR a candidate meeting the requirements contacts a Citizen asking for patronage.

in the method above, every candidate must pass two tests... he must be found worthy by a patron, and by the CdeC. If the version proposed passes, not only will there be two methods of self proposal, but two of those methods will require a patron test and the third won't

[Perikles]

don't support, a process for self proposal is already in the constitution

in the very section you quoted above

The patron confirms the candidate meets the requirements, OR a candidate meeting the requirements contacts a Citizen asking for patronage.

I know, but Plebs can't tell who is willing to patronise them. With this method a Citizen can still approach someone who has posted in thread about going through conventinal patronisation if they want. The Pleb would just have to withdraw their self proposal.

in the method above, every candidate must pass two tests... he must be found worthy by a patron, and by the CdeC. If the version proposed passes, not only will there be two methods of self proposal, but two of those methods will require a patron test and the third won't

In the 'thread self proposal method' the Pleb has to pass the test of public scrutiny, which is a lot tougher in my opinion.

[Tom Paine]

You seem to not have read the proposal; the citizen needs to be one who isnt in the process of already patronising someone, and needs to be someone willing to patronise generally and specifically. These are... somewhat difficult to tell.

Oh, and your maths is... kinda wierd. I really don't see why the additional check of the patron is at all neccessary unless we don't trust the CdeC in which case I suggest we recall the lot of ya.

[the Black Prince]

as to the former... no... you can patronise as many people as you want... there's no limit, somebody recently proposed that we abolish it...

and your post doesn't address the point that there is already a method of self patronisation which the proposer appears to have overlooked, and his post creates not 2, but three unequal methods of patronisation

[Tom Paine]

tBP, you still haven't explained why the patron test is at all neccessary in any manner whatsoever..

[Silver Guard]

I'll support as long as the original means of self-proposal are removed

[Tom Paine]

So this, David?

Self Proposal Amendment

Proposer: Perikles/Ozymandias (based on RTR Fan's idea)
Supporters: makanyane; Emuh Setarcos; Wild Bill Kelso

Article 3 - Patronisation

Any Citizen holding their rank for three months can patronise a Peregrinus for citizenship subject to the requirements in Article 1 above. In addition to this Peregrinus may also nominate themselves. The 2 processes of patronisation is as follows.are listed below.

Patronisation

1. The patron confirms the candidate meets the requirements, OR a candidate meeting the requirements contacts a Citizen asking for patronage.
2. The nominee sends the patron a PM explaining his duties and privileges as a Citizen, and his contributions to the community. The patron forwards this paragraph, along with his own, outlining why he nominated this member, to a CdeC member.
3. The CdeC member opens a thread in the CdeC Forum and the proposed nominee is discussed and voted upon.
4. If the nominee achieves sixty per cent of the non-abstaining votes, he becomes a Citizen.
5. The Speaker of the House promotes the member to Citizen, with a Citizen badge, and contacts him as to whether he would like to remain a Citizen, or further self define as an Artifex or Civitate.

Self Proposal

1. The Peregrinus posts in the 'Self Proposal' thread which shall be stickied in the Questions and Suggestions forum. They must meet the requirements for the rank and state their reasons for being eligible.
2. After 3 days, the Speaker of the House will open a thread in the CdeC forum and the proposed nominee is discussed and voted upon.
3. If the nominee achieves sixty per cent of the non-abstaining votes, he becomes a Citizen.
4. The Speaker of the House promotes the member to Citizen, with a Citizen badge, and contacts him as to whether he would like to remain a Citizen, or further self define as an Artifex or Civitate.

If a nominee fails his vote, he is not eligible to be considered again for one month. Members of the CdeC must abstain from voting on members they patronise. All CdeC votes must be concluded within seven days of the thread being opened in the CdeC.

[makanyane]

Support either version - but think Ozy's version, makes sense. The theoretical self proposal via contacting patron I was never that convinced about. You'd only be likely to do it if you knew prospective patron pretty well anyway, in which case who'd first actually raised issue wouldn't have been mentioned even without the amendment.

Allowing self proposal without patron would resolve issue of some potential members not getting badged due to philosophical objection to the patronage system and avoid criticism that system can be too subject to nepotism.

Only thing I'm not sure on is leaving the applicants posts visible in the self proposal thread once they have been submitted to CdeC - currently the 'public' don't know who's been failed by CdeC, if applicants posts are left in thread it would become pretty obvious and I think that would be an unnecessary humiliation. Suggest when speaker starts CdeC thread he also deletes the original post.

[Wild Bill Kelso]

Only thing I'm not sure on is leaving the applicants posts visible in the self proposal thread once they have been submitted to CdeC - currently the 'public' don't know who's been failed by CdeC, if applicants posts are left in thread it would become pretty obvious and I think that would be an unnecessary humiliation. Suggest when speaker starts CdeC thread he also deletes the original post.

Perhaps instead of posting in the public thread they send a PM to the Speaker of the House, or any member of the CdeC?

Either way this is has my support. Nice to see some members who initially were against this idea when I made my poll are now softening up to it

[Silver Guard]

support

[the Black Prince]

Setarcos is Silver Guard not Muizer Ozy

[Tom Paine]

Yes, I know. jp pointed this out and I therefore edited already. He is, however, David, or more accurately Divad.

[Tom Paine]

That'd be up to the Speaker really, I don't think the Syn wants to be used to force micromanaging duties on the Curia.

[makanyane]

Well I suppose if results are visible afterwards it would filter those applying down to ones who were relatively confident of a good outcome

Anyone particularly embarrassed could pm moderator to remove post?

[Tom Paine]

At times, mak, you have a wonderfully evil mind...

[Perikles]

I support my/Ozy version.

[Tom Paine]

Public posts make sure it gets done, in the end... imb has said that PMs are an idea, though. I'll talk to jp.

[Perikles]

The rationale behind having a public thread is that otherwise we might get everyone who hits the correct poatcount PMing the Speaker and requesting Citizenship. The beauty of a public thread is it puts the candidates under public scrutiny, meaning only those who think they have a good chance will apply.