Reworking the stats, Suggestions & Ideas

[Angel]

Hello all I'm the guy the who will make your gameplay sweeter or salty. I like to hear the community's wishs or suggestions in what they expect from a game like so. Ill post the plan im going for and so far the whole team is backing me up. Im really appreciated of the assitance so im asking the community please dont hesitate to post any thing that you dislike/like about the units.

Im going for my own SPQR type of battle. Im using SPQR as describing what Im going to do to the units/gameplay. Making epic battles and intensive. Challenging to all those who blizkrieg and prow over the weak. I believe blizing wont save you through destruction. Best to choose battles and fight them worthy.

This is what im aiming for, now back to topic, please post what you think

[Oswald von Wolkenstein]

I like the style you're going for -- the main issue with RS right now in terms of battles is that the AI is spewing out armies made of conscript units for the most part until very late in the game and even then you still end up facing the same low-grade units again and again --because it's not building cities. So in order to get the kind of battles you mention, that's needs to be corrected.

[Angel]

Trust me we worked that part out. I even mention to the team and they decided thats fine. Some think its not worth it but I told them and quote " Everyone will get bored quickly with the low grade units that the AI have. Best to give em some type of "corp" units and makem some effiente enough. Thus will create epic and intense battles. Trust me you dont want to auto calc when ya'll get the patch. You'll kill yourself when you make this stupid loss .

[swhunter]

Hi Again Angel
1st i hope this is the idea you are heading for. Better battles with more units experianced and less. Factions some strong others weaker.

when playing on easy/ easy what will that be ?
when playing med/med hard/hard and very hard/
What is your ideas on this?

Romans should have its chance to take the world historicaly
The Punic wars should be effect to keep them busy from attacking and takeing the greeks. Carth should be a major player at this time.
But rome should have the advantage more over other factions. Dont make it to easy but still Gaul, germans should be a threat but not over roman empire!
which is growing thats why this game is called ( R.S.) lol same also with spain

Seleicids are also a major empire at that time and should be treated as one.
Egyptians Phol. Should be the next empire.

Then the mace at war with GCS. Maybe this could be changed to the corect
name of that faction. Some good ideas from EB.

I do agree haveing at first weaker units then as time passes and when reforms come in better units should face each other.
Money is the key iam sure. If you have no $$$$$$$$$ you cant build!!

but if a perosn wishes to play the eastern factions they shouldnt be overrun by the seleucides right away. same with others!

Iam sure you get the idea.
And iam confident you will come up with some interesting things.
cant remeber all the factions names but lets use a little history mixed with what ifs ? I do like seeing factions buidling their legions stacks just to bring in that fear when you use spys or dips to see what they have.

One example i have is GCS( A. Leage) they had just three states rodes,sparta,athans,
They will take other factions in the world but just as iam playing them now
there is no way i can take the sleucides or Egyptians.
But ican take Mace, parts of asia, and northern factions but watching
my borders also.
Iam playing at med/med and its still alot of fun! I see a mix of heavy and non
heavy units!

thks

[Angel]

Wow alot stuff to read. I see your points. Im currently going through campaign battles and custom battles. Seeing which unit is overpowering which faction is better and so on. Im defently making the super powers, super powers . Egypt, sele,carthage,pontus,parthia,mace,greek,romans. I believe those are the super powers for and please suggest other wise. Yes you'll defently see a lot more men in each faction a lot of battles and a lot men . Ill post it what is best to be played.

Im making this game really tough so best to play.

If your a noob than play { ill never say play very easy and very easy if there is a difficulty }

Easy/Easy

If you have some expierence and know some things.

Medium/Medium

If you have some expierence but hard veteran of RTW and played SPQR before than by all means play

Hard/Hard

Now for you pros and cons out there Very hard will be the most dangerous thing you can do. Say good bye to so many battles and men. Cities will fall and your face burned. Get ready to be "Own" by the AI of his major bonus.

VeryHard/VeryHard. I pray for you!

[swhunter]

Angel
I and others think it would be nice to see what your doing by communicating
with each other! Its a good read plus we can throw in our 0.2.
See your plans and ideas and also DVK shareing with others since its all our modd.
May even increase your team DVK! If you want.

[Paul d]

well, this isnt exactly stats, but the Pergamum Agema spear is invisible on mine.

[Angel]

Thats probably a bug so its best to post that in the bug topic. .

[el_dude]

Im going for my own SPQR type of battle. Im using SPQR as describing what Im going to do to the units/gameplay. Making epic battles and intensive. Challenging to all those who blizkrieg and prow over the weak. I believe blizing wont save you through destruction. Best to choose battles and fight them worthy.

This is what im aiming for, now back to topic, please post what you think

That is an absolutely BRILLIANT decision. SPQR has the most amazing, nerve-racking, bloody battles...EVER. I am behind you 1000% percent on this

[dominic]

well, my suggestion was mentioned above by number of guys, and I'll repeat it here, 'cause it is directly concerns this thread....

I think for improving gameplay it's necessary to decrease the stats of roman legionaries. They are very powerful... I often play on vh/vh, and my losses are 1/10-30... I think it isnt right, taking into account that Im not a good comander.... At 230 BC I occupied Italy, all west Africa, Greece, Illiria, Cirenaica and Asia Minor by 2-3 legions... Partly, of course, this is question of Mariy reform event occuring (it occurs very soon after game start), but partly of overpowered stats of legionaries (premarians and postmarians both).

and more one fact... When I play in 0 turn to recruit units, AI is very foolish, 'cause AI recruits more and more till cities become very small. In result AI factions dont have satisfactory economic and can't to recruit heavy units.... No dout, this fact weakens AI, and simplifies gameplay...

[Straticus]

I agree with Dominic regarding recruitment. What is 'good for the goose, is good for the gander' isn't necessarily true here. The AI will drain settlements to fill armies with 0-turn recruitment. You get to slaughter thousands in battle, but there is no population to enslave upon taking enemy settlements.

[Tankbuster]

I thought I read somewhere that the modders were going to use 1-turn recruitment up to a point where more advanced units become available, or something like that...

Well Angel, I definitely support using SPQR stats to make battles more epic, but I beg you to be just a little more realistic than SPQR. I mean, I played SPQR for a while, and at some point to can start fighting Hannibal.
Now Hannibal historically had a band of excellent troops, with Libyan Spearmen as his best infantry, Numidian and Spanish heavy cavalry and of course, his elephants. Hannibal used his inferior (the Roman infantry proved at Trebia and Cannae to be superior to Hannibals infantry) Spanish and Gallic infantry to hold the line against the superior infantry of the romans, and he won the battle with his cavalry and elephants.

Now to get to the point, I was annoyed when I saw Hannibals carthaginian troops were owning my troops on all fronts! Off course his cavalry massacred my light troops and my cavalry, which was an axioma, and his elephants were stamping around as usual, but surprisingly his infantry owned my mighty Roman legionaries! That last was far from realistic! What I'm saying is that if you change the stats, you should keep the advantages of factions historically. For example:

Carthaginians = great cavalry, bad infantery + elephants
Romans = crap cavalry, very good infantery
Gauls = good cavalry, infantery with high attacking stats
Macedonians = great cavalry, good (but not great) phalanx...

And so on, and so forth...

[dvk901]

That, gentlemen, was MY fault. In trying to mirror a SPQR-like game play, and using '0' turn recruitment which is more realistic, I forgot to increase population growth! The result, as you say, was cities stripped of population.
So Patch10, which we are working on (and includes many of the changes in Patch9, which we're skipping) will hopefully go a long ways toward correcting that issue.
As far as stats, we've basically given Angel a free reign to rework this. Thus, he gets fried if it's bad, and not me! Just kidding....
Also, I don't think the Marian Reforms will occurr as early in this Patch. It has been a struggle to control this without using the many scripts and changes that other mods use. But we're working on it.

[dominic]

To be founded to my post#10, I'll set some screenshots which represent results of three battles:




Level vh/vh provincial campaigne.
I think my suggestion to decrease stats of legionaries has become more evident.

[dvk901]

Well, two observations. Yes, the Rome's are probably overpowered.
Second, Your armies seem to exclude the Hastati.....which of course, the Romans would've had many, and would be a weaker unit. So you are sortof 'stacking the deck' a little by not having them. In a typical Roman early Legion, at least a third or better of the army would be Hastati.

[dominic]

Second, Your armies seem to exclude the Hastati.....which of course, the Romans would've had many, and would be a weaker unit. So you are sortof 'stacking the deck' a little by not having them. In a typical Roman early Legion, at least a third or better of the army would be Hastati.

Yes, I agree with you, but one army - is postmarian legion (Primigenia) and another - is "remainders" of pre-Marian period (on sreenshorts)...
any way, to solve this problem is to make hastati very cheap, and principes and triariis - very expensive, otherwise a player should change gameplay to more historical trend by himself (specially recruit hastati and ignore the insignificant difference of prices for them and heavy units, and significant difference between their stats)....

THere is great idea , but I dont know is it real to make this. In premarian period allow recruit only hastati, but when they get expierence, they become principi and then triarii...

[Tankbuster]

Well, two observations. Yes, the Rome's are probably overpowered.
Second, Your armies seem to exclude the Hastati.....which of course, the Romans would've had many, and would be a weaker unit. So you are sortof 'stacking the deck' a little by not having them. In a typical Roman early Legion, at least a third or better of the army would be Hastati.

+ he has loads of missile troops

[Exekutor]

I don't think you should go the spqr-road. That way your mod just gets a copy of SPQR with other skins. You can take some basic approaches from SPQR, but you shouldn't try to copy it (in spqr you basicly win with only your pilum lol).
I don't think the principes are overpowered, I fought against barbarians and hoplites and if I don't flank they get pretty mauled (even losing against some hoplites). Maybe higher cost/upkeep, but no stat decrease. Can't say anything about legionaries yet. But they should kick almost everybody's ass, so they need to be strong.
My only suggestion until now is nerf the skirmisher cav, either lower melee or def or higher cost/lower number. They are so damn annoying, first it takes years to catch em and then they butcher equites way to easily. If I don't send them support, the equites are dead within a minute.

P.S:I saw that Pyrrhus' elephants only had an upkeep of 400, do the normal elephants have a similar upkeep? I haven't fought anyone with elephants yet, so I don't know.

[Angel]

I increased all elephants to high upkeep, to show importance and no abusing of it. Also increased thier numbers.

Yes i decrease the melee powers that the melee cavalry had. I notice DVK had spear atributes and spear bonus on them which pretty much raped all cavalry . I wouldnt mind getting yelled at for some reason I did on the stats, more or so that means I did my job of making you mad . I know some people dont like the SPQR ways or stats but IM making it INTO MY OWN SPQR, not lt's MINE. Im not copying his ideas or anything, i just learned from expierence playing it and how he did it. Than I implent my ideas to almost look like SPQR but I repeat its not . Im in a real stumped right now, with giving pilums high attack or low attack. Should roman legionaries take out 10 men or 20-30 men? Now thats 1 unit doing so, agianst rabble barbarians. Still more test to conduct. Im glad you stickied this Dvk, I didnt notice how popular people are with stats >

[Master_Swordman]

I increased all elephants to high upkeep, to show importance and no abusing of it. Also increased thier numbers.

Yes i decrease the melee powers that the melee cavalry had. I notice DVK had spear atributes and spear bonus on them which pretty much raped all cavalry . I wouldnt mind getting yelled at for some reason I did on the stats, more or so that means I did my job of making you mad . I know some people dont like the SPQR ways or stats but IM making it INTO MY OWN SPQR, not lt's MINE. Im not copying his ideas or anything, i just learned from expierence playing it and how he did it. Than I implent my ideas to almost look like SPQR but I repeat its not . Im in a real stumped right now, with giving pilums high attack or low attack. Should roman legionaries take out 10 men or 20-30 men? Now thats 1 unit doing so, agianst rabble barbarians. Still more test to conduct. Im glad you stickied this Dvk, I didnt notice how popular people are with stats >

Thanks for nerfing the cavalry. However, I wouldn't suggest decreasing the number of legionaries, I play on Large setting so that they have 80 men per cohort, which if I am not mistaken is historically correct.
I also suggest the Imperial Legions get an increase in defense to represent how good they were, on the defense. Staying behind a shield and attacking around it is much different than running toward someone swinging a large sword.