Pikemen solution..........!

[Condottiere SOG]

Latest;
figured out how to make pikemen use the pike more and the sword less!

this is how i have it set now. notice these #'s

stat_pri 10, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 0, 0.65
stat_pri_attr spear, long_pike, spear_bonus_10
stat_sec 7, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 0, 0.35
stat_sec_attr no

these numbers are usage preferential numbers. you can simply change them the match you desires....... I think pikemen were more likely to be like this, for instance............

stat_pri 10, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 0, 0.85
stat_pri_attr spear, long_pike, spear_bonus_10
stat_sec 7, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 0, 0.15
stat_sec_attr no

i believe i got this right last night when i was watching a unit of Flemish pikemen go at another unit. The pikemen only used swords when right next to the enemy, otherwise i watched a unit of norman viking raiders get mowed down. IT WAS AWESOME!

these numbers do not have to add up to 1.00 or 100%

stat_pri 10, 3, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 0, 0.75
stat_pri_attr spear, long_pike, spear_bonus_10
stat_sec 7, 5, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, sword, 0, 0.45
stat_sec_attr no

this coupled with my modified melee weapon ranges works best...

[MasterAdnin]

This is a great find, but it belongs in the modding section =P. Good job though, i hate using pikes, now, it might be more like the hoplites.

Salaam,
Adnan

[Garnier]

The problem I see is that the AI makes horrible use of pikes. It was the same with hoplites in RTW. They dont keep a solid formation of pikemen that is impenetrable and protect the flanks and rear like they should. Thats the only way pikes are effective.

[Condottiere SOG]

The problem I see is that the AI makes horrible use of pikes. It was the same with hoplites in RTW. They dont keep a solid formation of pikemen that is impenetrable and protect the flanks and rear like they should. Thats the only way pikes are effective.

Gosh, do you think real pikemen had it easier or that they had fail-safe formations in any era. Pike formations broke all the time. Particularly against each other. A horrible melee and/or rout always followed.

[Ketchup]

If this truly works then I salute you condottierre nut if it is so obvious why did no-onr else find it quicker. hmmmm...

[Ancient Mariner]

Where ever this belongs, I'm happy I saw this.

If it works, it will restore a personally crippling aspect of game enjoyment.

Vanilla Pikes suck, and with their secondary weapon they are retarded strong.

If only the AI could be convinced to recruit them...

[YD23]

Finally someone found a fix!!!
Good job!!!
+rep

[Trajan]

Moved to the Text Editing and Scripting sub-forum.

[Filip_bre]

i completely removed the second weapon "sword", and the phalanx i rplaced by shield wall, so they allways use the pikes and are killin men by hundreds until you surround them. it sounds boring, but after visualising that mess you will really enjoy it as it rools so real! try this too

[Krieg_Boy]

yeah, i agree with Filip, without the sword looks much, much better!
but, good work.

[Filip_bre]

its the same with cavalry, its so unrealistic the fact that they flip between lances and swords ?!? so i simply removed the swords and they fight better, looks better and so much more realistic. I only preserved the swords to cavalrcy to some units such as templars and hospitallers thats all

[Condottiere SOG]

Ok and fine if you don't want pikemen to have a secondary weapon. historically, its a no-no. many twohanders-pikemen served in Swiss units and after the first clashing of the pikes would break ranks and attack the enemy flank with swords. Not an option for me.

[Ancient Mariner]

Removing the pikeman's secondary weapon comes close to ruining the game.

They can't be charged from any direction, and are completely unstopable. This provides interesting eye candy for awhile. But invincible units at 150 a pop, takes all challenge out of the game.

But if this fix works (haven't had the time to hash out the text.), they will perform like the phalanxes in Rome, which is good enough for me.

Thanks for this find. !!!!

[Dietre]

i dont understand who changing the last 2 lines of primary attack would change when the pikemen take out the sword, since the stock 25 revers to time between attacks, (1/10th sec incriments) and the stock 1, 1.33 for 2handers refers to skeleton compisation, meaning attack speed. im not saying it doesnt work, just why would it change timing and distance to when they bust out the sword. In my game i have pike units/halberds use NO swords, and lower their defence skill, so they can die more. the ai uses about 50% infantry is pikes and they put up a good fight. charging in waves from back/side while they are engaged with other pikes works well, and also CROSSBOWS take em out very well.

[Dietre]

DOES anyone have a copy of rome tw2 installed that could post the entry in battle formations of the LOCKSHIELDS OR SHIELDWALL, i think this was is barbarian invasion. I think it could be cool to have ur trained spearmen use that. mind u this probaly wouldnt be historicaly correct, but it would make another stategy for the game. anyhelp for the script would be awsome !!!!!
ps i dont think by adding phalax to their traits would work, the game would crash.

[SigniferOne]

So has anyone tested it, does this solution work, while keeping the swords?

[Jariik]

This only seems to work in spearwall/phalanx formation, for me. In regular standing formation, pikemen switch to their swords almost instantly, and get annihilated by swordsmen (specifically, french pikemen vs. mixed highland nobles and feudal foot knights).

The holding of spearwall formation works excellently for keeping these units at bay in terms of defense. But even in spearwall, pikemen do not poke with their spears against infantry, even after they've gotten to their feet. This might be a glitch of some sort, or something like that. I'm going to try something, and get back to you on if it works.

[MunichRules]

In the spanish movie "Alatriste" (with Vigo Mortensen) you can watch a tercio pikemen unit (with msuketiers inside) to fight against another pikemen unit. So while the front of both units clashed together the moved against each other stucked. As a solution they were some people in the tercio unit having small sword and they way like crawling under the pikes to make to the enemy by hitting the legs or everything what is under the pikes.

Concerning RTW i can rember that macedonian pikemen ( one of the eilite troops) where one of the hardest to confront. Even attacking them with 4 units heavy cavalry from all sides it was kind a hard work to kill them !!!!

But what makes the pikemen so unhandy and bad working is the simple fact they cannot use a circle formation to protect attacks from all sides.

So would it be possible to make a mod wich allows units forming in a circle ???

[Condottiere SOG]

This only seems to work in spearwall/phalanx formation, for me. In regular standing formation, pikemen switch to their swords almost instantly, and get annihilated by swordsmen (specifically, french pikemen vs. mixed highland nobles and feudal foot knights).

The holding of spearwall formation works excellently for keeping these units at bay in terms of defense. But even in spearwall, pikemen do not poke with their spears against infantry, even after they've gotten to their feet. This might be a glitch of some sort, or something like that. I'm going to try something, and get back to you on if it works.

Not in guard mode but with guard mode off they are actively poking, at least in my observations. I will set up screenprints when I get a chance.

I think you can save time with changing the skeleton compensation factor. Palamedes told me that it doesn't seem to be hooked up in the game code.

Well, I would say for me they have behaved more like pikemen. I am keeping an open mind to all this. For sure there was change after I made modifications. Try for yourself. After all everybody gets different results from this savage beast of a game. That is one thing that's true about M2TW. Also, try switching square in position with phalanx. I find when I let the AI use pikemen it tends to change the formations of the unit to meet the threat. Even running at times towards the target, then going back into formation. This insures guard mode isn't always set.

[DrJambo]

Interesting. So you've reduced the attack delay from 25 to 0 and lowered the skeleton compensation factor for both pri and sec attacks...

I'll try it out.