NEW FACTION: Duklja (SERBIA)

[Matthæus]

well sorry because image i posted before is blurry, it is not scanned but photographed. border is visible: _._._._._ -looks like this.
how about this solution- rename the Ragusa province to BAR and make it starting province for duklja. why Bar?
there are many reasons. Bar is just south of Dubrovnik. Bar was (and still is) the biggest city and harbour in montenegro. duklja controlled this city for al long time, and it cannot be disputed. bar was seat of archbischop and archdiocese. legendary prinse Vladimir had its seat in Krajina, near Bar. the "infamous" pop dukljanin lived and worked there.

think about that i think that is a good idea.

now lets talk about some other things.
any thoughts about units?

[Matthæus]

True on the map Dubrovnik is part of the greatar Dukljankska država but not of small Duklja that equlis todays Montenegro.
Well hope you will sort this out but defenetly take Raška name for the Serbs.

So Wrath of the Norsmen has Croatia, ay? Ludilo! Odmah ću ga probat!
Is the mod any good' I just tryed Road to Jeruzalem and it's preety good. New provinces, skins, titles for the generals, much harder. Must confess I like it.

-ehm look harder. ill post a colur picture from another source later.
but im that strongly for that idea of putting raska in. i mean raska annexed duklja in 12 century. and that mean as there is no duklja form 12 onwards century that means no late period units for them..

wraith of the norseman is not complete. but it is pormising mod. as you might know moddeling is not possible yet so you will have to be patient.

[Vegna]

ah bugger
i'm a serb, i wish i could help you out here ,but my knowledge about the serbian history starts around 1700

would be very nice to see an medieval serbia in M2:TW
hope you know what your dealing with, cause if you add Serbia, you have to keep in mind you'll probably have to add the Bosniacs aswell.
wish you goodluck on this one ^^

[Lord Condormanius]

Hey guys...I'm not ignoring this thread. I just want to get all of my facts together before I make a(nother) "final" decision.

LC

[Lord Condormanius]

rename the Ragusa province to BAR and make it starting province for duklja.

This is not an option.

[Matthæus]

Hey guys...I'm not ignoring this thread. I just want to get all of my facts together before I make a(nother) "final" decision.

LC

well it is your decision. whatever you decide is good with me. im here to help, not to be the nuisance. when you reach a final decision just say and i wont bring this ragusa "problem" again.
ill provide as much info i as much i can. but the problem is general lack of information about duklja on net (and not only in english language).

from one school history book. map is showing situation at the beginning of XII st.

[monkeyman]

i'm just interested in knowing what the units for the serbs will look like. pics would be nice if you have any.

[Fra70]

no we havent started to work yet on serbian units ... we try to make really interesting factions to play , not merely cloning just to add other factions , every faction have his own spirit and personality ... and serbia will have that too ...but it takes time :S

[DukeofSerbia]

There is special agreement between Lord Condormanius and me about Serbia. This mod will use Serbian units (high and late period) from Feudalism Total War, and for early I will provide resources to Lord Condormanius.

[Vegna]

is your goal historical accuracy or gameplay?
if it is historical accuracy than you shouldnt give ragusa to duklja (as starting region) because ragusa was never in its long history controlled by dukljans or serbs (or any other faction -except byzant (early period) being vassals of venice for a short time).
but if you think that ballance is more important, than you might do that to make duklja stronger.
and duklja is a south slavic state (like hum, and pagania), but it is not entierly correct to call it serbia. raska was s proto-serbian state and not duklja.
and you know that it is absurd to talk about idea of national identity in early medieval period (and especially in the balkans).

i am a serb, my family tree goes back to the 16th century, raska was THE first state serbia had along with kosovo, Duklja was never in control of the southslavs, even befor our arrival.

Why is it absurd? if he's going to add bulgaria or romania, then thats absurd aswell cause serbia was mightier then theyr neighbours, we had an rich country with a strong military.

Keep it coming mate! cant wait to see them serbs !
Zbogom junace!

[blade_st]

i am a serb, my family tree goes back to the 16th century, raska was THE first state serbia had along with kosovo, Duklja was never in control of the southslavs, even befor our arrival.

Why is it absurd? if he's going to add bulgaria or romania, then thats absurd aswell cause serbia was mightier then theyr neighbours, we had an rich country with a strong military.

Keep it coming mate! cant wait to see them serbs !
Zbogom junace!

unhealed complexes and lots of antipathy in this post,
depiction of historical facts and contribution to this mod equals zero.

greetings to matko,
keep on the good work!

[Lord Condormanius]

unhealed complexes and lots of antipathy in this post,
depiction of historical facts and contribution to this mod equals zero.

Quite. As much as anyone hates to admit it Duklja did reign over Serbs. Raska, Bosna, Zeta, etc. were all under control of Duklja for some time. It is very sad when nationalism blinds people to the facts of history.

[Sarmatian]

Matko is right, on Dubrovnik/Ragusa. It was never under control of Duklja, Raska or kingdom/empire of Serbia, although their rule sometimes extended almost to city walls, the city itself was never in control of any of them. The best way to represent that is to make Dubrovnik a mini province, literally with only city of Dubrovnik in the province if you haven't hit the limit.

On the other issue I disagree with matko. Duklja can be considered a proto Serbian state. With Montenegro acquiring independence, there's lot of revisionism but that doesn't change the past. House of Nemanjic is directly descendent from House of Vojislavljevic (rulers of Duklja), so there is no reason Duklja can't become Serbia in terms of the mod, although Raska is better suited. The problem with Raska and the House of Nemanjic is that they appear later which can be a problem if historical accuracy is a must. The upside is that sources are much, much easier to come by. The pro for Duklja is their earlier appearance but the downside is that you'll have to use your imagination when doing their units as sources are scarce, as matko said.

The solution one of the mods (I forgot which one) is using is to start out as Duklja and when you conquer Raska there is an event in which you change to Kingdom of Serbia and gives you access to all later Serbian units...

[Hengest]

We (Dominion) is doing this, although Raska to Serbia. I think we will actually change this to Duklija though

[Lord Condormanius]

We (Dominion) is doing this, although Raska to Serbia. I think we will actually change this to Duklija though

I would actually like to do this with a couple of factions, but I am a knucklehead when it comes to scripting.

[ceda012]

Just finish the mod, give me my Serbs, and let me play

[Son of Fire]

I have to admit this mod does look sound pretty tasty...
Are you planning on bring in the troops from other mods?
Like SV and Tsardoms?

What about troop types?

[Lord Condormanius]

Are you planning on bring in the troops from other mods?
Like SV and Tsardoms?

I do not know either of those mods. I try to do as much on my own as I can. Aside from that, many modders (unlike myself) do not like to share their work for other mods. I don't know if this is the case with these mods.

What about troop types?

I'm really not sure. To be honest, I have not done much work at all on the Serbian faction. I also have to revisit the faction list because the time frame of the mod will be different than originally planned, so I have to make sure that this faction will be accurate.

[Son of Fire]

Well I can't speak for any of the head honchos of those mods...
But I have seen several that let folks use troops and such... so it couldn't hurt to ask...

Savvy... well lord knows I always have an opinion about Serbs in mods, I would be more than willing to toss in my 2 cents about troop types, composition, and the like...

[Lord Condormanius]

Well I can't speak for any of the head honchos of those mods...
But I have seen several that let folks use troops and such... so it couldn't hurt to ask...

Savvy... well lord knows I always have an opinion about Serbs in mods, I would be more than willing to toss in my 2 cents about troop types, composition, and the like...

Send me a PM with some suggestions.