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Thread: NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

  1. #1
    Lord Condormanius's Avatar Artifex
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    Default NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

    This thread will be used to discuss the different aspects of the Kipchak faction. This post is only a placeholder and will be updated.
    "There is a difference between what is wrong and what is evil. Evil is committed when clarity is taken away from what is clearly wrong, allowing wrong to be seen as less wrong, excusable, right, or an obligatory commandment of the Lord God Almighty.

    Evil is bad sold as good, wrong sold as right, injustice sold as justice. Like the coat of a virus, a thin veil of right can disguise enormous wrong and confer an ability to infect others."
    -John G. Hartung

  2. #2

    Default Re: NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

    here i will post the basic info about cumans = Kipchak faction

    it must be in the following way

    1) early Medieval history (their appearance in the lands of Rus, modern day russian steppe)
    2) medieval kaganate of Kipchak's western and eastern and their wars with
    byzantium , hungary, Guz, patzinaks , bulgars and to other states.
    3) list of themain rulers of Kipchakian horde from XI to XIII centure
    4) Kipchaks and Caucasus
    5) Kipchaks and Mongolia
    6) Kipchaks and Hungary
    7) & the end of Kipchaks and their disappear from political history of medieval era.

    only after this i will post other staffs like pics, names, armour and other interesting things
    so it is a short preface hope u like it


    respect
    Through your intercession I hope to see the light of Thy son and the light of everlasting ages !

  3. #3

    Default Re: NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

    thank you , any info is very welcomed

  4. #4

    Default Re: NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

    Fra70 @
    ok thanks you to

    now

    let's start from I chapter

    1) early Medieval history (their appearance in the lands of Rus, modern day russian steppe)

    first appear of Qipchaks in 1055 when Qipchaks advanced at the Dnieper in pursuit of Ghuzz tribe. it was data of their appear. XI c. is marked with the
    battles against kievan Rus in the lands of russian steppes. the culmination
    of war with united kievian rus was came in 1093 23 may in tyhe battle of
    the Stugna River. The Qipchaks raided Rus' soon after Vsevolod I [1078-1093] death and sought to buy peace with the new great prince,
    Svyatopolk II [1093-1113] .
    However Sviatopolk arrested the Qipchaks ambassadors and the Qipchaks came in force to attack Kiev. Facing an enemy army of 8 000 Sviatopolk took the advice of counsel and called for help from Vladimir Monomakh, prince of Chernigov. Monomakh came with his troops and also called upon his only brother, Rostislav of Pereyaslav.
    Monomakh insisted on peace with the Cumans while Sviatopolk wanted war
    but in vain .
    First Cumans attacked Sviatapolk's troops and after a bloody battle Sviatapolk's troops ran. Then Vladimir Monomakh was crushed and all the Kievan troops retreated. Sviatapolk took cover in Trepol', but Rostislav and Monomakh attempted to swim the Stugna River. Rostislav, in a heavy chain armour, drowned. Monomakh retreated to Chernigov and Sviatapolk retreated at night to Kiev.
    The Kievan-Pechersky Paterick ascribed Rostislav's death to his own haughtiness. It is said that he refused to enter the church and pray for the battle's outcome. The young prince's death is also recalled in the Tale of Igor's Campaign.First Cumans attacked Sviatapolk's troops and after a bloody battle Sviatapolk's troops ran. Then Vladimir Monomakh was crushed and all the Kievan troops retreated. Sviatapolk took cover in Trepol', but Rostislav and Monomakh attempted to swim the Stugna River. Rostislav, in a heavy chain armour, drowned. Monomakh retreated to Chernigov and Sviatapolk retreated at night to Kiev.

    The Kievan-Pechersky Paterick ascribed Rostislav's death to his own haughtiness. It is said that he refused to enter the church and pray for the battle's outcome. The young prince's death is also recalled in the Tale of Igor's Campaign. Cumans won the war at this stage of their confrontation
    but the Vladimir II Monomachus [1113-1125] took the lead aginst whem everything was changed In his famous Instruction to his own children, Monomakh mentions that he conducted 83 military campaigns and 19 times made peace with the Qipchaks he was most succesful general among the
    Rus who ever gain much victory against Cumans. most succesful victory took place in 1111 year after this he reviged the Desht-i Qipchaq several times until north-eastern Qipchaks were allied with Georgian emperor and left their home to seek refuge with their new ally - Georgians .
    Vladimir II Monomachus died in 1125. and new confrontation was held between them untill mongols invasion when both of them were defeated
    and suppressed by the new enemy- Mongols. but this new confrontation was more succesful as Cumans took several times capital city of Rus - Kiev.

    2) medieval kaganate of Kipchak's western and eastern and their wars with
    byzantium , hungary, Guz, patzinaks , bulgars and to other states.and the Tactics of their warrior school



    Tactics
    Tactically the Cumans were a fairly typical steppe nomad army, relying on hit and run tactics by horse archers to wear down and disorder the enemy. In my view, DBA does not simulate these tactics very well, as there is no way to "wear down" or "tire out" opponents.
    The best bet is likely to be to use some of the LH to go after the opponents camp, use the infantry to protect your camp, and use the rest of the LH to disorder and harass your opponent. Tempt him to break up his formation by chasing after your LH and eventually you should get some overlaps or flank attacks. The Cv will be most useful at this stage.
    Camp Ideas
    Cuman camps should be a wagon laager, with tents either on the wagons or inside the laager. Even after they had settled in Bulgaria and Hungary, the Cumans continued to live in nomad style.

    now about Painting Tips
    The bulk of Cuman armies would have worn a calf-length topcoat, sometimes with short sleeves, over a knee length tunic and trousers. Either boots or shoes could be worn. A wide range of materials were used, with fur, wool and sheepskin perhaps being commoner in the early part of the period, and linen and brocade replacing them as time went on. Colours varied, yellow, white, brown, blue, red, gold and grey are all recorded. Clothes could be highly patterned and embroidered. Richer or noble Cumans would naturally wear more decorative clothing.
    Those fighting as Cv, should probably be armoured, in a mix of Russian, Turkish, and Mongol styles. Pointed helmets with mail aventails and a metal mask moulded to look like a face are recorded as popular.
    The most distinctive item of Cuman clothing was a pointed cap. Unfortunately, contemporary sources show a wide range of these, possibly reflecting various ethnic sub-groups. Most have an upturned brim, often in a contrasting colour. Some versions resemble a "Robin Hood" style, others are more like old-fashioned nightcaps with upturned brims. Many have an unfortunate tendency to look like they belong to one of Santa's elves!
    The Cumans themselves were fair-skinned, blue-eyed and often described as handsome. They wore their hair long, and often had long moustaches, although beards were rare.
    Weapons were mainly recurved composite bows, together with sabres, maces, javelins, and possibly lances, at least for some nobles. Shields, when used, would be small and usually round, or occasionally almond-shaped.
    and
    now about enemies
    Enemies
    The Cumans historical opponents are Pechenegs, Early Hungarians , Seljuqs , Early Russian , Comnenan Byzantine , Khwarizmian , Later Bulgar and Mongols.
    To these "official" enemies could be added Ghuzz , Romanian Frankish , Later Byzantine, and Later Hungarian , all of whom had contact with the Cumans at some stage. The Hungarians invited the Teutonic Knights (151) to establish a colony in Transylvania as protection against the Cumans in 1211. This was so successful that the Hungarians got scared and drove the Knights out in 1225
    To be honest, any army that visited the Balkans or south-eastern Russia between about 1100-1400 AD could have met up with the Cumans, so there are plenty of plausible (if slightly unhistorical) opponents. How about a detachment of crusaders getting lost while marching to Constantinople? The Cumans remained pagan until almost the end of the period, so the crusaders should have no problem finding a reason to fight! Most of these armies are reasonably strong in cavalry, which could be a problem for the Cuman LH, as could Russian or Byzantine infantry.
    now u can see sourse about their war against byzantium and the emperor Alexius Comnenus(1081-1118)
    the tale is wrtten by the daughter of emperor Anna comnna and is very good source to research their history
    Alexiad BOOK X Cuman War : First Crusade (1094-97) it is very big story
    but anywar hope u like it

    ''At night a certain Pudilus, a Vlach nobleman, came in and reported that the Comans were crossing the Danube, so the Emperor judged it wise to assemble the leading men among his relations and officers at dawn of day and consult on the steps to be taken. As they were all of opinion that he ought to be at Anchialus, he at once dispatched Cantacuzenus and Taticius to the village called Therma with a few barbarian auxiliaries, and Scaliarius, the son of Elchan, and ome other picked men to keep guard over that part of the country, and he him self left for Anchialus. He was then informed that the Comans were moving towards Adrianople so he sent for all the leading men of Adrianople, pre-eminent among whom were Catacalon, [239] nicknamed Tarchaniotes, and Nicephorus, the son of that Bryennius who once aimed at the throne, and had himself done the same and been deprived of his eyes. The Emperor enjoined these men to guard the fortified city very strictly, and said that if the Comans did approach, they were not to engage in battle with them faint-heartedly, but take a definite aim, and shoot at them from a fixed distance. He also advised that the gates should be kept closed most of the time, and promised them many privileges if they carried out his orders. After recommending these measures to Bryennius and the others he sent them back to Adrianople in good spirits. Next he sent orders by letter to Catacalon Eaphorbenus Constantine to take the man called Monastras (he was a semi-barbarian who had picked up much military experience and Michael Anemas with their respective detachments, and directly he heard that the Comans had come through the passes to follow them up closely and attack them unexpectedly.

    III The Comans, however, were shown the paths over the passes by the Vlachs, and by using them crossed the Zygum easily. As soon as they approached Goloë, the inhabitants of that town put the captain of the garrison in chains and handed him over to the Comans, and received the latter with delight and shouts of joy. But Catacalon Constantine, with the Emperor's directions fresh in his mind, fell in with the Comans who had gone out to forage, attacked them vigorously and led off about a hundred of them as captives. The Emperor received him and rewarded him on the spot with the title of 'nobilissimus.' When the inhabitants of the neighbouring towns, Diabolis and the others, saw the Comans in possession of Goloë they capitulated, welcomed them with pleasure, handed over their cities and acclaimed the pseudo-Diogenes. He gradually made himself master of all and then with the whole Coman army marched to Anchialus, intending probably to make an attack upon its walls. The Emperor, who was inside and from youth upwards had acquired long experience in warfare, knew that the position of the town would prevent the Comans from making an attack, for it was an additional defence to the walls, so he divided his forces, threw open the gates of the fortress and drew up his men in troops of close formation outside. Near the tip of the Coman lines . . . a portion of the Roman army with shouts . . . they routed them and pursued them down to the sea. The Emperor observed this, and as his [241] forces were quite inadequate to oppose such masses he commanded all the soldiers to stand together in close formation for the time being arid said that no one was to move out from the lines. The Comans drew up their lines too, and stood right in front of the Romans; however, they did not attack either. This was carried out for three days from morning to night ; for the lie of the land impeded the Comans in their longing to fight as did also the fact that not a single Roman moved out from their lines against them. Now the site of the fortress Anchialus was like this, on the right lay the Pontic sea, and on the left the ground was very rough and impassable and overgrown with vines and did not afford any foothold for riders. What was the result ? The Barbarians after seeing the Emperor's endurance, gave up their plans in despair and turned away along another path to Adrianople. The pretender deceived them by saying, " Directly Bryermius Nicephorus hears that I have come to Adrianople,he will open the gate and receive me with delight, he will provide money and bestow many a kindness on me. For although it was not a tie of nature, but of choice,he always had a brotherly feeling for my father. And directly that fortress has been surrendered to us, then we can start on our onward road to the capital." He used also to call Bryermius 'uncle,' perverting what had a foundation of truth. For it was a fact that the former Emperor Romanus Diogenes, knowing that the man Bryennius excelled all his contemporaries in judgment, and observing his open disposition and general truthfulness in word and deed had desired to adopt him as brother. And as both parties were willing this adoption was effected. These facts are true and known as such by all, but the Pretender was so shameless that he actually called Bryennius ' uncle.'

    So much then for the Pretender's tricks. The Comans being barbarians have lightheartedness and changeableness as natural characteristics, so they listened to his words, reached Adrianople and encamped outside the city. (Then for forty-eight days engagements took place daily, for the younger men who were eager for a fight went out daily and joined in battle with the barbarians.)

    One day Nicephorus Bryennius was called for by the Pretender who stood below, so Nicephorus bent forward over the wall and said that as far as he could judge from the man's voice, he did not recognize him as the son of Romanus Diogenes who had been his brother by choice, as just mentioned and as often happens, and that Romanus' real son had been killed [242] at Antioch. With these words he dismissed the Pretender in disgrace. As the time dragged on, the inhabitants began to be in want and solicited succour from the Emperor by letter. He forthwith ordered Constantine Euphorbenus to select a sufficient number of the Counts under his command, and with them to effect an entrance into Adrianople at night from the side of Calathades. And Catacalon at once took the road to Orestias with high hopes, thinking he would escape the notice of the Comans. But he was wrong in his conjecture. For they caught sight of him, rode out in vastly superior numbers to the attack, drove him backwards and pursued him fiercely. On this occasion this man's son Nicephorus (who later became the husband of my younger sister Maria Porphyrogenita) wielding a long spear turned round sharply to face the Scythian who was pursuing him, and struck him in the chest, whereupon the latter straightway fell down dead. For of a sooth he knew how to brandish a spear and cover himself with a shield; and anyone seeing him ride, would have conjectured that he was not a Roman but had come from Normandy. For the young man was a marvel on horseback, and a magnificent work of nature; he was strong in his piety to God, and sweet and gracious to men. Forty-eight days had not yet passed before, at the bidding of Nicephorus Bryennius (who had plenary jurisdiction over Adrianople), the gates were thrown open all at once and the brave soldiers marched out against the Comans. A fierce conflict ensued in which certainly a large number of Romans fell fighting bravely in utter disregard of their lives, but they killed still more. Here too Marianus Mavrocatacalon picked out Togortac (the chief commander of the Coman army) for he laid hold of a long spear, gave his horse his head and rode straight at him and was within an ace of killing him, had not the Comans near him rescued him, and very nearly killed Marianus too. Although this Marianus was young and only lately admitted to young man's estate, yet he often rode out from the gates of Orestias and fought with the Comans, and every time he returned in triumph having wounded, or killed, his man. For he was truly a very brave warrior, and had apparently inherited courage as an ancestral heritage, and been born a still braver scion of very brave ancestors. After he had been saved from his imminent peril, he boiled with anger and looked for Pseudo-Diogenes. He found him standing on the further bank of the river, on the very spot where be, Marianus, had been [243] fighting with the barbarians, clad in red and decked in imperial guise and his friends all dispersed, so he lifted up his whip and cut him across the face mercilessly while he stigmatised him as a Pretender-King.

    IV When the Emperor learnt of the persistency of the Comans at Adrianople and the frequent battles there, he judged it necessary to leave Anchialus and go thither in person. So he summoned the chief commanders and the head men of the town and discussed what should be done. A man called Alacaseus stepped forward and said: " My father was formerly an intimate friend of this Pretender's father. So let me go and I will take him to some fort and arrest him." Naturally he was asked how he meant to set about this work; then he imitated Zopyrus, the contemporary of Cyrus, and suggested his device to the Emperor, for he said he would disfigure himself and shave off his beard and hair and go to Diogenes and pretend that the Emperor had had all this done to him. Now he did not say these things and not do them; neither did he promise them and then not fulfil his promise, but directly the Emperor sanctioned the enterprise, Alacaseus shaved himself very closely, disfigured his body and started off to that fictitious Diogenes. Among other things he reminded him of their old-time friendship, and said, " Now that I have been so badly treated by the Emperor Alexius, I come to you relying on my father's former friendship with your majesty to assist you in your present enterprise." For he used these terms of flattery in order to attract him the more readily. And to enlarge a little about his doings-he took a pass from the Emperor Alexius and likewise a letter for the prefect of the garrison of the fort called Putza, which said "Whatsoever the bearer of this letter suggests to you, that do promptly, in accordance with his orders." (The Emperor had guessed aright that when the Comans moved from Adrianople they would go to that town.) When these arrangements had been made, Alacaseus, as we have said, approached the Pretender, all closely shaven, and said, " It is because of you that I have been ill-treated, for your sake I have been insulted and thrown into chains, for your sake I have been imprisoned for many days, ever since you crossed the Roman frontier, and I have become an object of suspicion to the Emperor because of my father's friendship with you. However, I have secretly escaped to you, my real master, after freeing myself from my chains, and will now give you salutary advice." Diogenes received him well [244] and enquired what he must do to accomplish his object; to this the other replied, " Do you see this fort and this broad plain which is sufficient for feeding your horses for as many days as you like to rest yourself and your army? We had better not go on any farther for some time, but stay here a little for you to take possession of this fort, and for the Comans to sally forth and bring in necessaries and then we will commence our march to the capital. And if the idea pleases you, I will see the guardian of this fort who was formerly devoted to me and will arrange for him to surrender it to you without battle." This proposition pleased Diogenes. In the night accordingly Alacaseus tied the Emperor's letter to an arrow and shot it into the fort, and when the Governor had read it, he made ready to hand over the said fort. In the morning Alacaseus approached the gates first and pretended to be talking with the Governor; beforehand he had arranged a signal with Diogenes and told him that directly he saw it he was to walk straight into the fort. After feigning conversation with the Governor for a little time, and giving the signal he had agreed upon beforehand with the pseudo-Diogenes, the latter on seeing it, took with him some soldiers, not many, and boldly entered. The inhabitants received him with joy, and the Governor of Putza invited him to a bath, which Diogenes accepted at the instigation of Alacaseus. Afterwards they spread a rich banquet for him and the Comans accompanying him. When they had, one and all, feasted exceedingly well, and filled themselves with wine which they gulped down from full skins, they lay on the ground snoring. Then Alacaseus himself and the Governor and a few more went round, took away the horses and their arms, left Diogenes snoring where he lay, but killed his attendants and cast them straightway into some trenches as if into natural graves. Now when Catacalon who followed up the Coman army according to the Emperor's orders, had seen Diogenes enter the fort and the Comans disperse for foraging, he went away and fixed his camp near the town we have just mentioned. As the Comans were dispersed all over the country, Alacaseus did not dare to send the Emperor news about Diogenes, but took him and made straight for Tzouroulus in order to return to the capital. But the Emperor's mistress-mother who was staying in the palace, heard of this and at once dispatched the 'Drungaire' of the fleet, the eunuch Eustathius Cyminianus with orders to arrest Diogenes and bring him to the capital. Eustathius had with him a certain Turk, Camyres [245] by name, and made use of this man for the blinding of Diogenes.

    Meanwhile the Emperor, still at Anchialus, heard that the Comans were dispersed for foraging purposes over the adjacent territories, so moved away and occupied little Nicxa. Next he heard that Citzes, one of the commanders of the Coman army, had collected about twelve thousand Comans whom he had sent out to plunder, and having in this way gained a large amount of spoil, had now seized the ridge of Taurocomus. Consequently he marched down with his forces and halted on the bank of the river which flows across the plain situated at the foot of this ridge. This place was covered with germander-bushes and young trees. There he stationed his forces ; then he selected a large body of Turks, especially skilled in archery, and launched them against the Comans, hoping that if they started the fight with them by making a few sallies they would lure them down the hill. But the Comans attacked them and pursued them incontinently up to the Roman lines ; then they drew up their horses for a few minutes, reformed their lines and got ready to dash at the Roman army.

    The Emperor saw a haughty Coman horseman bound out from the body of the army, ride along the lines and almost seem to challenge somebody to come and fight him, so he could not endure to wait for the right or left wing, but in view of all he put his horse at the gallop and first transfixed the barbarian champion with his spear and then driving his sword right through his chest, hurled him off his horse; thus on this day he showed himself more as a soldier than a general. This deed inspired the Roman ranks with great confidence, and the Scythians with no less alarm, so that when he moved towards them like a tower of strength, he soon split up their army. And now that their serried ranks were broken they scattered in all directions and fled without restraint. On that day about seven thousand Comans fell in battle, and three thousand were taken alive. But the Emperor did not allow the soldiers of the Roman army to divide all the booty they had taken among themselves, according to the usual custom, because it had been recently plundered from the districts around, but ordered it to be restored to the natives. The Imperial decree flew like a bird through all the country round about, and all those who had been robbed, came and each claimed his own property and carried it off. And with beatings of breasts and with suppliant hands raised to heaven, [246] they prayed for blessings upon the Emperor; and the mingled cries of men and women could be heard rising almost to the disc of the moon. So much for this. Afterwards the Emperor joyfully collected his troops and returned to the aforementioned little Nicaea. There he halted for two days, and on the third he left it and reached Adrianople where he stayed for several days in the house of Sylvester. On the other hand all the leaders of the Comans separated from the rest of their army and with intent to deceive the Emperor, came to him as if of their own will and pretended they would make a truce with him, in order that while time was being wasted over the treaty, the Coman army could advance further.

    For three days then they waited and after the third day they left at night and took the road homewards. The Emperor, alive to the Comans' stratagem, sent swift runners to make clear to the men commissioned with guarding the paths through the Zygum that they must not relax but keep a sharp look-out and capture the Comans if possible. But when he was informed that the whole army of the Comans was journeying forwards, he at once took the soldiers that were at hand, and reached a place called Scutarium, eighteen,,) stades distant from Adrianople, and the next day he reached Agathonice. There he heard that the Coman army was still near Abrilebo (this place is not very far from the two towns just mentioned), so he went in that direction and looked from a distance at the countless camp-fires they had lighted, and afterwards sent for Nicolas Mavrocatacalon and the other chief officers of the army and with them considered the steps to take.

    It was decided that it would be best to summon the captains of the auxiliary troops, namely, Uzas (he was of the Sauromati), and Caratzas the Scythian, and the semi-barbarian Monastras and arrange that they should go and prepare and light fifteen or more bonfires near every tent, so that when the Comans saw all these fires they would think the Roman army was immense and get frightened and not attack them so boldly in future. This was done and produced great fear in the minds of the Comans. The Emperor got ready in the morning and taking the troops he had, advanced against them, and after a conflict the Comans turned their backs. Then the Emperor divided his army and sent the light-armed troops on ahead and himself rode in rapid pursuit of the Comans who were in mad flight. He caught them up near the Sidera Cleisura and killed many, but took most [247] prisoners; the troops that had been sent ahead recovered all the booty from the Comans and returned. The Emperor spent the whole night on the mountain-ridge of the Sidera Cleisura owing to a severe storm, and when day dawned arrived at Goloë. There he stayed for a day and night, in order to do honour to the men who had fought bravely, and reward them with very rich gifts ; and as he had accomplished his purpose he dismissed them all gratefully to their homes, and himself regained the palace in two days and nights.''
    itis from Alexiad and u can see full story of princess Anna see here
    http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis...alexiad07.html

    for more references i shall post later

    respect
    Through your intercession I hope to see the light of Thy son and the light of everlasting ages !

  5. #5
    Lord Condormanius's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

    very nice, Jerusalem. Keep up the good work.
    "There is a difference between what is wrong and what is evil. Evil is committed when clarity is taken away from what is clearly wrong, allowing wrong to be seen as less wrong, excusable, right, or an obligatory commandment of the Lord God Almighty.

    Evil is bad sold as good, wrong sold as right, injustice sold as justice. Like the coat of a virus, a thin veil of right can disguise enormous wrong and confer an ability to infect others."
    -John G. Hartung

  6. #6

    Default Re: NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

    now let's continue with our research

    3] list of the names of rulers of Kipchakian horde from XI to XIII centure
    this is III chapter
    lets just name all of them from XI to XIV centuries

    1) Khan Sharagas (XI c. II half) eastern horde
    2) Khan Togortag (XI c. II half) western horde
    3) Khan Syrchan (XII beg. -30s ) eastern horde son of Sharagas
    4) Khan Atraqa (XII beg. -30s ) eastern horde son of Sharagas
    5) un. sons of Atraqa (1130s - 1160s) eastern horde
    6) Khan Konchegh (1165- 1192) eastern horde
    7) Khan Sauvlat (or Savalat) (1195-1235) eastern horde
    8) Khan Kotian (1192-1241) eastern horde; and in 1238 fled to hungary from mongols
    9) Khan Bortch (XIII first 1/3 of this c.) in 1227 he had his people baptised as Catholics;
    10) László IV the Cum (e.i. cuman) (1372 - 1390) king of Hungary, a grandson of
    Kotian and the son of queen Elizabeth (daughter of Kotian ) and the son of Stephan V Arpad - he was hungarian but very close with his relatives - Kipchaks(cumans)

    1300s (early) compilation of the "Codex Cumanicus". and in 1348 Pope Coloman VI charges Minorite friars to convert Cumans.

    after XiV they disappeared from political area .


    as for the nxt i will post 4 part of the story




    respect
    Through your intercession I hope to see the light of Thy son and the light of everlasting ages !

  7. #7

    Default Re: NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

    that will be the next faction i will skin ...starting tomorrow !

  8. #8

    Default Re: NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Fra70 View Post
    that will be the next faction i will skin ...starting tomorrow !
    it is great so let me post some major info about armour and their army

    Cumans (1054-1394 AD)DBA 130By Keith VenablesThe Cumans appeared in the Ukraine in the mid 11th century. Their origins are unclear, but they were probably related to the Seljuqs. Also known as Kumans and Kipchaks, they are probably best known by their Russian name of Polovtsi, under which name they appear in Borodin's opera "Prince Igor".The Cumans spread westwards, many of them settling along the Danube in what is now Bulgaria and Rumania. Initially friendly to the Pechenegs, plundering Thrace together in 1087, they allied to Byzantium, and shattered the Pechenegs at the battle of Levunium (1091AD). The Pecheneg remnants were absorbed into the Cumans, as were various other Ghuzz and Turkoman tribes.The Cumans fought most of the peoples who surrounded them, but their most regular opponents were Byzantium and the southern Russian princedoms. They sacked Kiev in 1202AD. They made regular raids into the Byzantine Empire, an attack in 1148 preventing Emperor Manuel Comnenus from launching an invasion of Italy. Despite this many Cumans served as mercenaries in the Byzantine army. Many Cumans settled in Bulgaria, fighting both against the Bulgars, and alongside them as allies or mercenaries. Other armies who used Cuman mercenaries include Poles and Serbs.The Mongol invasions effectively finished the Cumans as an independent people. Heavily defeated near the mouth of the Volga in 1238, large numbers fled west, settling in Hungary, Russia and in the Byzantine Empire. The largest group settled in Hungary, where they formed a major element of the army. There were numerous struggles between native Hungarians and Cumans, and at one point they were driven out of Hungary, joining other Cumans in Bulgaria. After they were invited back into Hungary, a Cuman chieftain led the revolt that established the independence of Wallachia in 1330. The Hungarian Cumans had been absorbed into the native population by the 15th century. The few small independent groups remaining on the steppes after the Mongol invasions were finished off by Timur at the end of the 14th century. There are few Cuman leaders who left much of a mark, but there was a chap by name of Bonyak the Scabby - perfect if the paint starts flaking off your general!EnemiesThe Cumans historical opponents are Pechenegs (#109), Early Hungarians (#119), Seljuqs (#124), Early Russian (#129), Comnenan Byzantine (#133), Khwarizmian (#146), Later Bulgar (#147) and Mongol (#154).To these "official" enemies could be added Ghuzz (#94), Romanian Frankish (#152), Later Byzantine (#153), Timurid (#159b), and Later Hungarian (#166), all of whom had contact with the Cumans at some stage. The Hungarians invited the Teutonic Knights (151) to establish a colony in Transylvania as protection against the Cumans in 1211. This was so successful that the Hungarians got scared and drove the Knights out in 1225! To be honest, any army that visited the Balkans or south-eastern Russia between about 1100-1400 AD could have met up with the Cumans, so there are plenty of plausible (if slightly unhistorical) opponents. How about a detachment of crusaders getting lost while marching to Constantinople? The Cumans remained pagan until almost the end of the period, so the crusaders should have no problem finding a reason to fight! Most of these armies are reasonably strong in cavalry, which could be a problem for the Cuman LH, as could Russian or Byzantine infantry. The Cuman ArmyThe DBA list is:1 x 3Cv The Cv element represents the nobility, and should be the general's element if you want to be historically accurate.
    8 x 2LH The LH are the bulk of the warriors, probably including some Pechenegs and Turkomen as well as Cumans.
    2 x 3Aux In early Cuman armies the infantry would be the poorest members of the tribe. In later, Hungarian-based, armies they are likely to represent Vlach javelinmen.
    1 x 2Ps or2LH or Art Artillery should only be used after 1180 AD, and should be either wagon-mounted bolt shooters or mangonels.
    Note that the list in the rules contains a misprint. In the optional elements it should read "2LH" not "2LC".TacticsTactically the Cumans were a fairly typical steppe nomad army, relying on hit and run tactics by horse archers to wear down and disorder the enemy. In my view, DBA does not simulate these tactics very well, as there is no way to "wear down" or "tire out" opponents.The best bet is likely to be to use some of the LH to go after the opponents camp, use the infantry to protect your camp, and use the rest of the LH to disorder and harass your opponent. Tempt him to break up his formation by chasing after your LH and eventually you should get some overlaps or flank attacks. The Cv will be most useful at this stage.Camp IdeasCuman camps should be a wagon laager, with tents either on the wagons or inside the laager. Even after they had settled in Bulgaria and Hungary, the Cumans continued to live in nomad style.Painting TipsThe bulk of Cuman armies would have worn a calf-length topcoat, sometimes with short sleeves, over a knee length tunic and trousers. Either boots or shoes could be worn. A wide range of materials were used, with fur, wool and sheepskin perhaps being commoner in the early part of the period, and linen and brocade replacing them as time went on. Colours varied, yellow, white, brown, blue, red, gold and grey are all recorded. Clothes could be highly patterned and embroidered. Richer or noble Cumans would naturally wear more decorative clothing. Those fighting as Cv, should probably be armoured, in a mix of Russian, Turkish, and Mongol styles. Pointed helmets with mail aventails and a metal mask moulded to look like a face are recorded as popular.The most distinctive item of Cuman clothing was a pointed cap. Unfortunately, contemporary sources show a wide range of these, possibly reflecting various ethnic sub-groups. Most have an upturned brim, often in a contrasting colour. Some versions resemble a "Robin Hood" style, others are more like old-fashioned nightcaps with upturned brims. Many have an unfortunate tendency to look like they belong to one of Santa's elves!The Cumans themselves were fair-skinned, blue-eyed and often described as handsome. They wore their hair long, and often had long moustaches, although beards were rare.Weapons were mainly recurved composite bows, together with sabres, maces, javelins, and possibly lances, at least for some nobles. Shields, when used, would be small and usually round, or occasionally almond-shaped.MiniaturesThe only manufacturer I know of who produces Cumans is Gladiator Miniatures (catalogue courtesy of Wargames Forum UK) but there must be others.At a pinch you could use a mix of other similar figures - Hungarians with a few Bulgar and Pecheneg cavalry, with Wallachians for the infantry would be best.Rick S.: Minifigs Crusader line includes Cumans (intended as Byzantine mercenaries). Also, I've found that with most steppe nomads, you can largely mix and match (there are a few execptions, such as Pechenegs with their long hair & beards). I think Nasmith has a casting, as well.David Howard: Essex offers the following Cumans in their Crusader range: CRU30 (Cuman Horse archer), CRU31 (Cuman Horse archer with javelins), CRU32 (Cuman foot archer), and CRU33 (Cuman javelinman).Other ResourcesMost of the information in this piece came from the Wargames Research Group books - Armies of Feudal Europe, and Armies of the Middle Ages (vol 2), both by Ian Heath. There's not much on the Web, but if you use a decent search engine you find odd references on pages about Balkan history and culture.

    see the link here
    http://www.fanaticus.org/DBA/armies/dba130.html

    now about pics
    see here

    here u can see kipchak cavalry and infantry
    Last edited by JERUSALEM; May 06, 2007 at 05:07 AM.
    Through your intercession I hope to see the light of Thy son and the light of everlasting ages !

  9. #9

    Default Re: NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

    part 4 Kipchaks and Caucasus
    now about about Cumans ans Caucasus
    there relationship with georgian was installed in the reign of Emperor of Georgia
    David IV the Restorer 1089-1125 (after 1104 he is named as an emperor)
    aftre david untill queen Rusudan(1223-1245) georgian Emperors beared not only the title of rulers of all Georgia, Armenia, Aran(caucasian albania, Azerbaijan) and Alania but even title of lord of Kipchaks and Rus (principality of Taman). all emperors were named as rulers of Kipchaks and many Khans and nobles of eastern horde were under were service among them were Khan Syrchan son of Sharagas,Khan Atraqa son of Sharagas and brother of Syrcha,n un. sons of Atraqa from eastern horde
    and Khan Konchegh his brother Khan Sauvlat (or Savalat)
    and even Khan Kotian in the begining of his career untill mongols forsed him to flee in Hungary .
    general info see here

    Their relations with Georgia seem to have been generally peaceful. Moreover, the Georgian politicians of that time saw the Kipchaks as their potential allies against the Seljuk conquests. According to Georgian chronicles, Georgians knew about the "Kipchaks' good fighting skills, their bravery, and the enormous human resources that they had.

    The architect of the Georgian-Kipchak alliance was the Georgian emperor David IV “the Builder” (1189-1125), who employed tens (or even hundreds) of thousands Kipchak soldiers and settled them, in 1118, in his state. This measure, one of the central parts of David’s military reforms amid his struggle against the Seljuk invaders, had been preceded by the visit of the high-ranking Georgian delegation, including the emperor himself and his chief adviser and tutor George of Chkondidi, to the Kipchak headquarters. To secure the alliance with these nomads, David married a Kipchak princess Gurandukht, daughter of Khan Otrak (Atraqa, son of Sharaghan, of the Georgian chronicles), and invited his new in-laws to settle in Georgia. David mediated a peace between the Kipchaks and Alans, and probably had some consultations also with the Velikiy Kniaz of Kievan Rus', Vladimir Monomakh, to secure a free passage for the Kipchak tribesmen to the Georgian soil.(but this is aconfirmed and wrong information there was no negotiation with Rus at this time)

    a result of this diplomacy, 40,000 Kipchak families under Otrak moved to settle in Georgia. According to the agreement, each Kipchak family was to contribute a full-armed soldier to the Georgian army. They were given land, rearmed and became a perfect regular force under the immediate control of the king. The selected 5,000 men were enrolled in the royal guards. The remaining Kipchak settlers were posted chiefly to frontier regions confronting the Seljuk Turks. They practiced a semi-nomadic way of life, wintering in the Kartlian lowlands in central Georgia, and carrying their summertime duties along the foothills of the Caucasus.

    The medieval compendium of the East Slavic chronicles known as Hypatian Codex relates that after the death of Vladimir Monomakh in 1125, Khan Syrchan of the Don Kipchaks, Otrak’s brother, sent a singer Or’ to Otrak and asked him to return home. Legend has it that when Otrak heard Or’ singing an old Kipchak song and smelled steppe grass, he fell in nostalgia with the steppe life and finally left Georgia. but in real story is different Atraqa and his son were force to left in deshti- kipchaks becouse they supported Vaxtang the young brother of emperor Demetre in 1130. Vaxtang was son of Guranduxt and she was the daughter of Atraqa son of sharagan that is why demetre disliked them and sent a part of Cumans back and rebelion was supressed . even after this heave insident cumans remained to be loyal to the emperors of Georgia as they wanted to live and trade in caucasus and military service was the major source for their salvation and revenue , that is why they alwey took part in every military campan held by ruler of caucasus from 1118 to 1243.
    Yet a number of the Kipchak mercenaries settled permanently within Georgia, converted to Orthodox Christianity, and blended subsequently with the local population.

    The Christianized (and already Georgianized) Kipchak officers, known to the Georgians as naqivchaqari (i.e., "de-Kipchakized"), played a crucial role in suppressing the noble revolts of that time. Through their loyal service to the Georgian crown, they grew in influence and prestige, and emerged during the reign of George III (1156-1184) as a new military aristocracy in sharp contrast to old and frequently self-minded Georgian feudal lords. Not surprisingly, this caused a great discontent in the aristocratic opposition which would force George’s successor Queen Thamar (1184-1213) to retire virtually all high-ranking assimilated Kipchaks, particularly Qubasar who was comander in chief of georgian/caucasian army .
    wiki says that Afridon and Qutlu Arslan also were cumans but this is not truth
    see the wiki here.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kipchaks_in_Georgia

    Yet Thamar and her successor, George IV Lasha (1213-1223), continued to employ new Kipchak mercenaries, perhaps in tens of thousands. They were referred by the Georgians as qivchaqni akhalni, i.e., "new Kipchaks". One part of them, however, was refused to be enrolled in the royal army, and they moved on to Ganja, Arran, in what is now Azerbaijan. The Georgians subsequently defeated these marauding bands and scattered them. Although the Kipchaks continued to serve in the Georgian ranks, a number of the Kipchak units joined the Khwarezmian prince Jalal ad-Din Mingburnu in his expedition against Georgia in 1225, guarantying thereby his victory. The Kipchaks remained on both sides of the divide during the Mongol campaigns in Georgia in the late 1230s, but most of them subsequently intermingled with the Mongol hordes.

    respect
    Through your intercession I hope to see the light of Thy son and the light of everlasting ages !

  10. #10

    Default Re: NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

    Who has powers to read that whole text ?

    Nice work Jerusalem, keep it up.

    @Fra
    You are starting to skin Cumans. How many new units we will add to the whole Kiphack faction?
    I think that we could use some units from the game like Cuman Cavalry.

    Maybe a stupid comment, but can't help it :wink:


  11. #11

    Default Re: NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

    one should try

    it is really interesting how many units kipchaks will have ?

    respect
    Through your intercession I hope to see the light of Thy son and the light of everlasting ages !

  12. #12

    Default Re: NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

    it was not easy to make a kipchack faction since we have really few descriptions of the army ( of course the researches of Jerusalem are VERY useful ) and after all is a light horse archers army ...
    For now
    2-General units
    -Horse Archers
    -pecheneg auxilia horse archer
    -Heavy ( masked ) Cavalry with bow and sabre/mace
    - Horse JAvelinmen
    -Light lancers
    the cavalry units will be advantaged in some way on infantry
    -Trebuchet
    -ballista
    -peasants
    -peasant archers
    -auxilia archers (mil)
    -auxilia sword/axemen (mil)
    -JAvelinmen
    then there are some units for the "what if" Kipchacks have lasted unitl XVI sec
    - HEavier inf with Bows
    - heavier inf
    - hand gunners
    - more modern cavalry lancers

  13. #13

    Default Re: NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

    Per Pletneva, many Cuman lance heads are of armour-piercing type... an AP bonus for light archer/lancers would definitely make things interesting.

  14. #14

    Default Re: NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

    hi all.I started working on the banners so i need some pictures of symbols that I can use.tnx

  15. #15

    Default Re: NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

    i post here some images ive collected on internet





    Last edited by Fra70; May 24, 2007 at 07:03 AM.

  16. #16

    Default

    So...which units shall I try to skin? And what models shall I use as basis?

    EDIT: Nevahmind.

    I have a question: will the Kipchak peasants only be recolours? I don't know if trying to implement clothing textures for unicity is worth it.

    You can merge my posts, I only posted it to bump the thread which, I know, is pretty unorthodox.

    MERGED
    Last edited by Lord Condormanius; May 25, 2007 at 01:20 PM.

  17. #17
    Lord Condormanius's Avatar Artifex
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    Default Re: NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

    What do you mean, "worth it"? We retexture a lot of skins...which is why we need more skinners. Of course it will take a little longer, but in the end, it is more unique.
    "There is a difference between what is wrong and what is evil. Evil is committed when clarity is taken away from what is clearly wrong, allowing wrong to be seen as less wrong, excusable, right, or an obligatory commandment of the Lord God Almighty.

    Evil is bad sold as good, wrong sold as right, injustice sold as justice. Like the coat of a virus, a thin veil of right can disguise enormous wrong and confer an ability to infect others."
    -John G. Hartung

  18. #18

    Default Re: NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

    OK, I'll try to remake what I see in this pic, even on the peasant units. I have the entire weekend ahead of me.

  19. #19

    Default Re: NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

    Here art thy units:


    Cuman Archers


    Dismounted Cuman Archers

    The cutting of the cloth near the mail technique I borrowed from a more senior skinner, Strelac.

  20. #20

    Default Re: NEW FACTION: Desht-i Qipchaq (KIPCHAKS)

    well done SirPaladin

    good to see u here doing some skins for Kipchaks

    yes and
    can we put more armour on cuman cavalry ?

    respect
    Through your intercession I hope to see the light of Thy son and the light of everlasting ages !

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