The Spartan Thread

[Miraj]

Since everybody is so hyped on the new fictional movie "300", I thought I would bring the excitement down a notch with some nice historical info .

The term pederasty or paederasty embraces a wide range of erotic practices between adult and adolescents, generally between males. Pederastic relations have been variously described - as spiritual or materialistic, lawful or criminal, loving or commercial, compassionate or abusive, sexual or chaste – and have been documented from prehistory to modern times.
Rendered as 'age-structured homosexuality', it is, along with gender-structured relations and egalitarian relations, regarded as one of three subdivisions of homosexuality proposed by anthropologists,[1].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spartan_pederasty

The practice was an integral part of the agoge, the educational backbone of the Spartan polis. The title given the lover was eispnelos (εἴσπνηλος) "inspirer," who infuses the favorite with courage or arete, while the beloved was known as the aïtas (ἀίτας) "hearer." [2][3]

The Spartans were the first to eroticize male athletics by introducing nudity, as well as oiling the body during exercise to enhance its beauty, a costly practice which broke with the customary Laconian frugality.[4]

The Spartans believed that the love of an older, accomplished aristocrat for an adolescent boy was essential to his formation as a free citize

In Sparta, like in most other Greek city-states, the man first had to win the affection of the boy he sought, and it was the boy’s right to choose his lover. But in Sparta, his freedom was not complete. If two men, both reputable but one rich and the other poor, courted him, and he settled on the wealthier of the two, he was fined by the ephors for his greed

Ooooh, looks like the romance got nasty sometimes!

The Gymnopaedia were yearly Spartan dances by naked boys, with attendance restricted to married men.

http://www.historywiz.com/didyouknow/spartanfamily.htm

It began in infancy. When a Spartan baby was born, soldiers came to the house and examined it carefully to determine its strength.The baby was bathed in wine rather than water, to see its reaction. If a baby was weak, the Spartans exposed it on the hillside or took it away to become a slave (helot). Infanticide was common in ancient cultures, but the Spartans were particularly picky about their children. It was not just a matter of the family, the city-state decided the fate of the child. Nurses had the primary care of the baby and did not coddle it.

[-Conan the Barbarian-]

and your point?

[Miraj]

and your point?

Oh are you okay with molesting children then? Sorry, but I'm not one of those people.

[-Conan the Barbarian-]

Oh are you okay with molesting children then? Sorry, but I'm not one of those people.

I simply already knew that they did certain acts like the ones you mentioned. You may not be one of those people who approve of those acts, neither am I, but what is your point?

Precisely

Wrong.

They had more rights then their contemporary Greek women.

[Carach]

Oh are you okay with molesting children then? Sorry, but I'm not one of those people.

i only skimread, but i didnt see much out of the ordinary for ancient times - your prophet wasnt so ancient, hell preachers today in birmingham mosque in the UK say its ok to molest little girls and take 9 year old wives, because the prophet did it!

Wow! People really rush to the defense of pedophilia and child-murder when its the Spartans doing it.

So I get it know:

Spartans + pedophilia = AWSOME
Muhammad + pedophilia = BAAAAAD

ancient sparta vs not so ancient muhammed, the little city state that was one of the main icons of greece vs the most extreme, radical and violent religion to ever become so widespread on Earth?

Im not exactly sure why you are trying to deface Ancient sparta by taking things out of context, exagerating other 'facts', and downplaying your beloved prophet's part in huge problems that have arisen ever since he became the main man of islam.

[Feliks]

Child molesters? This is madness!

*waits for it*

[HIC SVNT LEONES]

Child molesters? This is madness!

*waits for it*

NO, THIS IS SPARTAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!


TONIGHT, WE DINE IN HELL!

[Sher Khan]

Child molesters? This is madness!

*waits for it*

Madness.....?

THIS. IS. SPARTAAAA!

*kicks Feliks into a big hole*




So it seems the Spartans were all about homoerotic love and shotacon.

What did the other Greeks think of them, or did they, too, indulge in this same thing and didn't really care?

[Trey]

Child molesters? This is madness!

*waits for it*

This, is, SPARTA!

[Plutarch]

this tradition was common amongst BOTH sexes in not only sparta but almost all of greece

it also transferred over to the roman culture as well. It was not considered molesting per se. Actually it was more of a mentor / tutorship thing. Remember history fans, when looking at history (especially ancient non 21st century polytheistic) we cannot judge them by standards of today. If we did this, than most of our ancestors would fall under the category of murderers, war mongers, sex offenders and probably heretics as well.

[Tilarium]

Lets see, ancient Greece and Roman socity it was pretty commonplace for a young boy to be taken on by an older man. That was the way things were done back then. If you lived back then you'd be doing it to, because it's what you learned as a child and what was considered normal in socity.

As for the babykilling. The Spartans were a militaristic socity, they lived for fighting. They disposed the children they considered flawed and weak because they would have given nothing to socity. Remember that the Spartan training that EVERY male went through from around 7 or 8 until around 19 was extreamly brutal and people would often die during the training. The weak ones would have just been killed then while training.

Kyle

[Serious Spamurai]

So was most of the world at that time. The Phoenicians used to sacrifice their children to the gods and most of the cultures of the world considered marrying young girls (12+) to be normal. Just because it's gay doesn't make it any worse.

[Kaapeli]

All ancient civilizations had customs we consider immortal today. Name any civilization and I'm almost certain we can find some dirt on them.

[Mythos]

Of course, you make it sound like they raped them daily, while it the youths that requested mentoring. Not to mention that sexual pleasure had nothing to do with it in most of the cases. Virtually every ancient writter says that mentoring was the purpose of this coupling. And besides, what exactly is the poing of judging them with modern morals? So you can say that we are better than them with a straight face?

By the way, what is your point about nudity? That our society has become so puritanical that views the human body as a despicable object?

[Hex Khan]

well for a start the spartans killed children who failed the test that deemed them healthy and able enough to exist so to cull weakness in their warrior city, by modern standards sure its wrong but they did it then and from it they had successive generations of fine strong and feared warriors. lest we forget it was their law.

Yes the spartan youths were encouraged to love an older warrior so they would fight fiercer together, that said it must have worked, thermopylae is a fine example, they fought to the last and all the fiercer when their aged king leonidas was slain.
That said the theban sacred band was an army group of homosexual men all related to my understanding, homosexuality isnt new and restricted solely to the spartans, the great hero achilles was gay too. please remember age rarely meant anything back then. but back to the point to my understanding it was heavily encouraged for it would improve the strength of the warrior community, it wasnt supposed to be pleasureble

Thing is all their boons and banes they have quite the history and quite rightly earned respect, if it wasnt for these things the spartans wouldnt be the spartans would they?

[conon394]

this tradition was common amongst BOTH sexes in not only sparta but almost all of Greece

I not so sure you can support that statement – if man/boy relationships were so accepted I have to wonder why it was such a common element of stock accusation leveled in Attic legal speeches. Aristocratic pro-Spartan Athenians might have been fine with the life style but the average attic ‘joe’ on the jury seems to have had a different opinion…

TB666

However Spartan women enjoyed alot more liberty then say Athenean women.

Not they did not, what liberties do you think they enjoyed?

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

Not they did not, what liberties do you think they enjoyed?

Well they weren't stuck in the home like other greek women were.
As Last Roman pointed out, they were allowed to do sports(naturally this would in the end give them better male children thus better warriors).
Also they could become the sole-heir if there was no male heirs and could be so without a guardian.
Legally they could become economically independent.
Naturally don't think many women did get that far but legally they had that chance which in Athens they had not.

[imthefrgt10]

ok, well just so eveeryone knows, its gone on way before spartans, it was very common during alexander the greats time, excessive during the roman empires domain, went on through out the middle ages and was common among priests. and still goes on today! whats ur point with this post?

[Miraj]

Wow! People really rush to the defense of pedophilia and child-murder when its the Spartans doing it.

So I get it know:

Spartans + pedophilia = AWSOME
Muhammad + pedophilia = BAAAAAD

[-Conan the Barbarian-]

I am not rushing to the defense of pedophilia or child murder and have said nothing about Mohammad.

I am saying that their achievements are what we should be focusing on ,but those child murdering practices etc. should be recognized as historical yet obviously not condoned.

You seem to insinuate alot.