Prophet Muhammad(pbuh) not just a man...

[MasterAdnin]

I have been talking to my Sunni friends and have come to realize that apparently, Sunni's believe the Prophet(pbuh) was just a man. That is not the case however. Shiites believe that all the Prophets were more then men. They were our leaders, chosen by God. They have been called upon by God to lead us into the righteousness of God. If that is the case, then why are they considered to be just men?

Although their stature and the way they look may be similar to men, they are spiritually much much more than that. Obviously in comparison to God, they are nothing, mere dust, but when they are compared to normal men, you can see the biggest difference. My father and I have talked about this for a while and do not understand why Sunni's believe Prophet's are just men.

Again, they may be worldly, similar to us, but Spiritually, they are at a much larger level. They are not just men, they are messengers of God. What are your thoughts on this topic? Christians, Jews, Hindus, Atheists, etc are free to give their opinions as well.

Salaam,
Adnan

[Tajir]

Oh, I see.

I personally have never spoken to Shias. My father is a Salafi Sunni, my mother is a Sufi Sunni, what are the odds, huh!

True.

But as for our belief that Muhammud (pbuh) was just a man, not so much. We only refer to him as 'just a man' to point out that he was mortal. Same with Jesus, Moses, or Abraham, peace be upon them. We believe they were chosen, definitely, but none were immortal, they were messengers and men.

But, let me clarify on them being 'just' men -- they were not 'jus' men, they were chosen men, great men.

Muslims, Sunni or Shia, MUST never emphasize the simple mortality of those great men, peace be upon them. I've never met a Muslim refer to prophets as 'just' men before.

[AngryTitusPullo]

We believe he's just a man, though obviously better than you and me.

"And Muhammad is but a Messenger. Many Messengers have gone before him; if then he dies or is killed, will you turn back upon your heels?" [Qur'an 3:144]

"O people, verily whoever worshipped Muhammad, behold! Muhammad is indeed dead. But whoever worships God, behold!God is alive and will never die." Abu Bakar, the first Caliph after Muhammad.

[jankren]

In my opinion, Muhammad was indeed much more than ordinary men in terms of spirituality. However, I believe he was no more 'special' than any other ancient prophets (Moses, Abraham, Jesus, Noah, etc) and modern great figures such as Mahatma Gandhi and Nelson Mandela.

[Mythos]

Assuming he existed of course.

[Mig el Pig]

Assuming he existed of course.

I thought his existence was proven.

Wether he talked with God(or an archangel) is quite another question.

[Germanicus75]

Assuming he existed of course.

I'm loathe to quote Wiki, but:

"The word 'Muhammad' occurs only four times in the Qur'an. Karl-Heinz Ohling[15] comes to the conclusion that the person of Muhammed wasn't central to early Islam (up to the Ummayad caliphate) at all, and that at this very early stage Islam was in fact an Arabic Christian sect, which had objections to the concept of the trinity, and that the later hadith and biographies are in large part legends, instrumental in severing Islam from its Christian roots and building a full-blown new religion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Muhammad

Besides, I also think that Muhammad was an extraordinary man in terms of spirituality. I believe he was a man with a greater state of consciousness. More than anyone here that's for sure.

Or he was prone to epileptic seizures for his "visions", as some modern psychologists believe.

[jankren]

Assuming he existed of course.

Of course. I know some Muslims who believe that Muhammad and other prophets mentioned in the scripture did not even exist. They are just part of the stories. I can not say it is untrue but I can not say it is true either because I did not live in 600 Arabia.

[Sadreddine]

Muslims who believe Muhammad (s) did not exist? What new kind of Muslims are those?

Besides, I also think that Muhammad was an extraordinary man in terms of spirituality. I believe he was a man with a greater state of consciousness. More than anyone here that's for sure.

However I believe Shi'a tend to see Muhammad, Ali (s) and the 12 Imams as something more close to super-humans with supernatural powers. They are considered infallible and perfect in any sense...Shi'a even ask things of them, like praying, and swear by them instead (or aditionally) of God. I see that as being close to idolatry of humans and therefore will never share that view.

Please MasterAdnin correct me if I'm wrong in this, I do not mean to offend you or anything.

[Mig el Pig]

Besides, I also think that Muhammad was an extraordinary man in terms of spirituality. I believe he was a man with a greater state of consciousness. More than anyone here that's for sure.

1 small comment,
People can hear/see things when their meditating.
People can hear/see things when they are too long under the sun.
People can hear/see things when they go without food or water.
It's pretty hard to follow a man that meditated, sober in the sun.

[TAG]

1 small comment,
People can hear/see things when their meditating.
People can hear/see things when they are too long under the sun.
People can hear/see things when they go without food or water.
It's pretty hard to follow a man that meditated, sober in the sun.

lol true true

anyway i respect the Muslim religion and Muhammud (pbuh) ( even if i disagree with it teachings)

[Silver Guard]

I have been talking to my Sunni friends and have come to realize that apparently, Sunni's believe the Prophet(pbuh) was just a man. That is not the case however. Shiites believe that all the Prophets were more then men. They were our leaders, chosen by God. They have been called upon by God to lead us into the righteousness of God. If that is the case, then why are they considered to be just men?

Although their stature and the way they look may be similar to men, they are spiritually much much more than that. Obviously in comparison to God, they are nothing, mere dust, but when they are compared to normal men, you can see the biggest difference. My father and I have talked about this for a while and do not understand why Sunni's believe Prophet's are just men.

Again, they may be worldly, similar to us, but Spiritually, they are at a much larger level. They are not just men, they are messengers of God. What are your thoughts on this topic? Christians, Jews, Hindus, Atheists, etc are free to give their opinions as well.

Salaam,
Adnan

Prove it
Quite simply, did you know the man? Do you have physcicaly proof of his near-divvinity as a chosen prophet? And no I don't see your holy book as proof.
Yes, his existance and position as viewed prophet (as well as being warlike and a warlord-like chieftan) is almost completly proven, as per his almost single-handed conquest of Arabia. But his higher spirituality? What logical steps did you take towards that decision?

[Amorphos]

How can a warlord be highly spiritual? the warrior type belongs to a lower class/caste than wisemen.

[Sétanta]

No, Adnan is right. Mohammad wasn't just a man, he was an extraordinary man. Just like Hitler was. They both enjoyed genocide after all. Although there is always the possibility that Mohammad was either a precursor to the anti-Christ or was the anti-Christ himself.

[Miraj]

No, Adnan is right. Mohammad wasn't just a man, he was an extraordinary man. Just like Hitler was. They both enjoyed genocide after all. Although there is always the possibility that Mohammad was either a precursor to the anti-Christ or was the anti-Christ himself.

Wow, thanks for contributing absolutely nothing to this discussion Setanta. But then again, that what you do best!


People really need to stop being jealous of Muhammad, just because he wasn't a coward and was actually willing walk the walk - unlike Jesus - doesn't mean he should be reviled.

Muhammad was a great man, and a very honorable man. He was of course NOT perfect. He was very flawed and human being. But he was as merciful as he was brutal. He never killed unless it was necessary. He was a visionary who united his people and whose message shattered the decaying and corrupt ancient order of the Romans and Persians and brought both of those over-proud people to their knees. Men like Muhammad are the fresh winds of history that sweep away the old and bring the new.

Muhammad was a man of action and a man of deeds. He didn't just sit their and take whippings and get nailed to boards of wood. He fought with his own two hands for his vision and he succeeded.

[Sétanta]

Hitler, Stalin, all the great meglomaniacs of history haven't been cowards and more than willing to "walk the walk." Should we form a religion based on their teachings, too? I'm sure they would love it. Should we not denounce them.

[Amorphos]

People really need to stop being jealous of Muhammad, just because he wasn't a coward and was actually willing walk the walk - unlike Jesus

That is exactly why muhammad is not as advanced as people like Jesus!

'He who lives by the sword dies by the sword'

[Carach]

People really need to stop being jealous of Muhammad, just because he wasn't a coward and was actually willing walk the walk - unlike Jesus - doesn't mean he should be reviled.

Hilarious quite frankly mr mirage, still coming out with this material after all this time?

Jesus spread religion through peace, muhammed did it by the sword - not much has changed then. :hmmm:

I'd say jesus was the better of the two mirage, defenceless and preached peace , but was not afraid of death... then theres the other, little more than a bandit, that went around massacring people and force converting...

Which of the two is more suited to the world today?

Thats the difference between east and west in modern times, the east, based on islam, is still living in the 15th century - and shouting jihad everytime a foreigner does something they dont like. The west, based on christianity, is well, modern, and also preaches peace and strives to be friends with everyone (even oppressive states that hatepreach and call for the west's destruction - like the ME! which is muslim coincidently)

First of all Muhammad NEVER killed anybody without a reason.

Thats another point with islam, "we never attack or fight without being provoked!" - theres always a reason, no matter how idiotic or weak, you guys always find a reason to make slaughtering people acceptable to God... You knwo the trouble the christians had to go through just to get a crusade? it took 3 or 4 Pope's their lifetimes to find a way in which violence could be acceptable - and even then it was under only one circumstance: Islamic Jihad taking half the christian world.

To be honest mirage, you support my theory of islam the religion, making people extreme/radical/possibly even evil.
Because hey, your not doing anything wrong by your religion, you just repeat what the book says, what your religious leaders say...(who get it from the book)

[Yosemite]

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/newre...eply&p=1575293

Why is there a sword in the hand of the man in your avatar?

[AngryTitusPullo]

Story 1.

A man works in a large company in a low level capacity. He's honest, down to earth and well liked by some of his colleague due to his sincerity. However he started to find fault within the higher level of the management in his company. He found out that him and his low level workers are treated unfairly by the higher ranks.

He tried to start a union to defend their rights against injustice. However his plans were not liked by the management and not supported by many of his level colleague and in the end the man was fired.

He however, even knowing that he's powerless against the injustice, forgive those who did wrongs to him.

Story 2.

Two brothers works in a large company. The elder is not a honest man while the second is an honest man who works as hard as he can for the benefit of the company. The elder spread lies and slander against his younger honest brother up to the managers which as the consequences the younger brother has been fired while the elder continue working there.

The younger soon find work in another large company which appreciates him and after a few years he becomes a manager of that new company. Then, both owners of the companies decides on a merger and this younger brother end up as the general manager of both companies.

Eventhough now he has power, he forgave all the fault of his elder brother and all his previous managers of their action against him before.

Facts: Both men in both story forgive their enemies though the one in the first story acts in a position of weakness while the one in the second story acts in the position of power.

Question: Which of the two men actually more merciful ?