Jesus=Yahweh?

[jankren]

Christians believe Jesus is God himself. So, doesn't it mean that Jesus was basically also the same God (Yahweh) of the Israelites who made all the laws and ordered horrendous massacres in the Old Testament and the Torah?

Peace,

[mrjesushat]

Not exactly. Catholics hold that he is the Son element of a triune godhead responsible for all creation. Ergo, as son, he can be considered the forward impetus of the Godhead, changing the relationship between God and Man.

Protestants would emphasize such metaphysics far less, and focus upon the watershed that Jesus represents as the expiation of sin. Ergo, punishment of the sort you identify in the OT is no longer indicated, because Christ is God turning over a new leaf---one which was planned all along, and whose difference of character has more to do with the evolution of humanity, and less with changes in God. God does not change.

What you really ought to be asking yourself is, How come Christians and Muslims don't realize that they are Jews?

[Scorch]

I think Christians, Muslims and Jews all believe in the same god, but have radically different interpretations of him.

And that's still a fair stretch to take.

[mrjesushat]

I think Christians, Muslims and Jews all believe in the same god, but have radically different interpretations of him.

And that's still a fair stretch to take.

Hardly. The three faiths have essentially the same metaphysical basis, and concern themselves with essentially the same issues in remarkably similar ways.

We may define them as follows:

Judaism--- the origin point for organized Monotheism, concerned with proper moral and ethical behavior in humanity, including various behavioral and dietary rules, with a view toward the eventual ascension of the "Priestly Caste" to global authority upon the arrival of the Messiah

Christianity--- the primary offshoot of Judaism, concerned with proper moral and ethical behavior in humanity, including various behavioral and dietary rules, with a view toward the eventual ascension of the "Believers" to spiritual perfection when the Messiah returns

Islam--- an offshoot of Judaism and Christianity, concerned with proper ethical and moral behavior in humanity, including various behavioral and dietary rules, with a view toward the eventual inclusion of all persons within the belief system, without regard for the special significance of a Messiah

[boofhead]

Did Jesus not pray to His Father? Was he praying to Himself?

God is One and He is manifested to Christians as part of the Trinity, which includes the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Muslims often think this means Christians worship three distinct entities. Wrong.

To understand this concept, think of H2O. It is the same substance, but can manifest as ice, water and steam. There is actually a level of spiritual immaturity inherent in monotheistic creeds which limit the Creator by claiming He has only one face. These creeds deny the omnipotency of God and His power to do as He sees fit. The Hindus are far more mature in a way by recognising one Godhead who manifests with multiple faces according to His will.

Muslims claim God is "unbegotten and cannot beget". That is a direct contradiction to God's omnipotent nature. And besides, what is Creation itself but one great "begetting"? Was mankind not made "in His image"? Could God not send down a bug with divine powers if He saw fit?

God the Father gave the Law to the Jews. The Jews are still judged under the Law they follow. A Christian rather believes that the Father prepared the way for the Son by demonstrating the futility of having prescribed rules as a method of attaining Salvation. Christ came to bring the New and Final truth, that it is not by Law that one is saved, but by Faith. It is easy to follow rules and appear religious, but a man can still follow such rules and have a heart as black as the devil himself.

So basically (my post is a little confused) yes Jesus to Christians is God in human form, but a God who is delivering the final truth to mankind. The New Testament states that the final Prophet was John the Baptist, who prepared the way for the Christ, who had a truth for the salvation of all of mankind, not just the Jews.

I am no authority Jankren, but that is the way I see it. Sorry if it seems a little disjointed.

[iudas]

Did Jesus not pray to His Father? Was he praying to Himself?

He prayed to his father inside the Trinity structure which we don't understand and no one does. It's a mess. But it's just nice to believe in it...

[boofhead]

Mr.Jesushat many Christians have no dietary regulations. Others like the Seventh Day Adventists do. I was raised as an Anglican (but am no longer) and we had no dietary restrictions whatsoever. Hell, I love pork and crustaceans!

Paul instructed that if a (Jewish) Christian goes to the house of a gentile in which they eat "unclean" food, then they should eat it so as not to cause offense. Doesn't mean I would eat monkey brains or human flesh, but the principle for many was established there.

[AngryTitusPullo]

If I remember correctly Yahweh comes (translated to English from Hebrew) is YHWH Elohim. Those of Jewish faith can help me there of course.

The closest language to Hebrew I believe is Arabic, so Y(Yuud) H(?) W(?) H(?) is Arabic are letters (Ya) (Ha) (Wau) (Ha) which pronounce Yahuwa. It basically mean "Oh my" which muslims usually utters in the form of Yahuallah (Oh my God).

Paul instructed that if a (Jewish) Christian goes to the house of a gentile in which they eat "unclean" food, then they should eat it so as not to cause offense. Doesn't mean I would eat monkey brains or human flesh, but the principle for many was established there.

In Islam, or at least as was practised in my country a muslim household, if he invites others of non-faith for a meal, then it his duty to provide food that can be eaten by his guests without any discomfort or anything. For example if a Hindu colleague of mine comes to my house I will not feed him beef.

The same when I was invited to an open Chinese New Year house by my other colleague. They will not serve me pork or alcohol. If I choose to have it on my own then it's another matter (not that I would do)...

I've also heard some says that muslims can in a Jews house but not Christian, though they can sleep at Christians house, but not Jews. I'm not sure where the source of it came from so I'll ask other muslims if they ever heard of something like that. It probably came from some unconfirmed Hadiths or something. :hmmm:

[jankren]

I've also heard some says that muslims can in a Jews house but not Christian, though they can sleep at Christians house, but not Jews. I'm not sure where the source of it came from so I'll ask other muslims if they ever heard of something like that. It probably came from some unconfirmed Hadiths or something. :hmmm:

One thing is sure is that it is not supported by Al Quran. Anyway, I think it does not make sense and ridiculous .

[AngryTitusPullo]

One thing is sure is that it is not supported by Al Quran. Anyway, I think it does not make sense and ridiculous .

Good. It probably comes from the fact that in Judaism pork is forbidden, and their kosher concept is similiar to our halal concept.

Do Judaism also forbids alcohol ? I don't mean the modern Jews but in the Torah maybe ? Probably not though as in the Qur'an itself, the banning of alcohol comes from 3 steps. If I'm not mistaken it starts with the banning before performing prayer until total ban altogether.

Angry my father-in-law is a Seventh Day Adventist pastor. They are pretty much vegetarian and their company "Sanitarium" fills this country with non-meat derived sustenance.

Unfortunately, I cannot stand this food, and it makes me fart BADLY BADLY. My body tells me I like meat and if denied it for a time I crave it.

The thing is when I go to family functions with my Adventist family members they will cook me steaks and sausages. They will eat it too.

I actually love them for it. These guys would go "the extra mile" for me despite our differences in belief.

Good for you. I just remembered the thread somewhere whether someone should serves pork to the muslim somewhere.. In France maybe ? :hmmm:

[boofhead]

Angry my father-in-law is a Seventh Day Adventist pastor. They are pretty much vegetarian and their company "Sanitarium" fills this country with non-meat derived sustenance.

Unfortunately, I cannot stand this food, and it makes me fart BADLY BADLY. My body tells me I like meat and if denied it for a time I crave it.

The thing is when I go to family functions with my Adventist family members they will cook me steaks and sausages. They will eat it too.

I actually love them for it. These guys would go "the extra mile" for me despite our differences in belief.

[Ummon]

Christians believe Jesus is God himself. So, doesn't it mean that Jesus was basically also the same God (Yahweh) of the Israelites who made all the laws and ordered horrendous massacres in the Old Testament and the Torah?

Peace,

Jesus is not the whole of God. God though, is Jesus as well.

[jankren]

Jesus is not the whole of God. God though, is Jesus as well.

Dude, that totally beats me . Can't anyone come up with a simpler explanation regarding the concept of trinity?

[Trey]

Dude, that totally beats me . Can't anyone come up with a simpler explanation regarding the concept of trinity?

I'm the wrong person to answer this, but the best explanation I can describe is that all three are manifestations of God.

[Sétanta]

No. Jesus is God, but only one aspect of Him. Jesus came to earth to redeem the sins of mankind, to change the relationship between God and Humanity, to make a relationship based upon love, rather than fear (the current Islamic approach). Jesus commited no atrocities in the Old Testament (which hardly existed in the first place).

[removeduser_426582376423734]

No. Jesus is God, but only one aspect of Him. Jesus came to earth to redeem the sins of mankind, to change the relationship between God and Humanity, to make a relationship based upon love, rather than fear . Jesus commited no atrocities in the Old Testament (which hardly existed in the first place).

Jesus was only mentioned in a very broad term as the "Messiah" in the OT, wasn't he?

(the current Islamic approach)

[Tom Paine]

No. Jesus is God, but only one aspect of Him. Jesus came to earth to redeem the sins of mankind, to change the relationship between God and Humanity, to make a relationship based upon love, rather than fear (the current Islamic approach). Jesus commited no atrocities in the Old Testament (which hardly existed in the first place).

What, the OT hardly existed? Or atrocities therein, in which case, eh, not so much. Neither is true.

[Zenith Darksea]

Afraid not. It's not for nothing that this is referred to as a 'Mystery'. But here's the Orthodox Nicene Creed - it states the concept of the Trinity as Christians ought to believe it:

We believe in one God, the Father Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible.

And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, and born of the Father before all ages. Light of light, true God of true God, begotten not made, one in essence with the Father, by whom all things were made; who for us men and for our salvation came down from heaven, and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and of the Virgin Mary and was made man; He was crucified also for us under Pontius Pilate, suffered and was buried; and the third day He rose again according to the Scriptures and ascended into heaven, and He sits at the right hand of the Father, and shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead; His Kingdom there shall be no end.

And in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life, who proceeds from the Father, who together with the Father and the Son is to be adored and glorified, who spoke by the Prophets.

And one holy, catholic, and apostolic Church. We confess one baptism for the remission of sins, and we look for the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come. Amen.

This should be something of a no-brainer though - anyone who knows anything about Christianity ought to know that Christ the Son is one in essence with Father, and together with the Holy Spirit they make up the Triune God.

[mrjesushat]

1 Father+1 Holy Spirit+1 Son= 1 God

Clearly, spiritual math is not the same as regular math. This is, however, how the triune godhead is generally explained.

And I still maintain that the 3 chief Monotheisms are fundamentally sects of the same religion. Even the "Take and eat of it" command in Christianity, permitting "Christians" (Jews who consider Jesus the Messiah) to eat pork, is a dietary rule. Also, let us not forget about abstentions during lent, and fish on Fridays.

But this is ultimately neither here nor there. The point is that Monotheism is a singular belief system composed of three main branches that have further sub-divided and splintered over time.

[Ummon]

My personal perception of it:

God is the Father.

Jesus is the Father's expression in human form, and the Logos (word, message, order) of the Father.

The Holy Spirit is more difficult to define, but it is also the expression of God inside all human beings (the Parakletos).

Since God Himself is unfathomable, the Trinity is the best way to understand Him.