[ORIGINAL THREAD] BROKEN CRESCENT: Total War in the MidEast

[John I Tzimisces]

Tadzreuli, I never said Nakharars were georgian, I was either A. talking about the unit roster for Cilician Armenia, or B. Thinking about maybe giving the georgians access to them on account of them controlling part of greater armenia.

I don't need a history lesson: I am well aware of the history...and it is not that Byzantium abolished the Bagratid Kingdom...it is that they inherited it after the death of it's leader, and promptly lost it to the Seljuks, being as incompetant as they (the romans) were.

[JERUSALEM]

Tadzreuli, I never said Nakharars were georgian, I was either A. talking about the unit roster for Cilician Armenia, or B. Thinking about maybe giving the georgians access to them on account of them controlling part of greater armenia.

I don't need a history lesson: I am well aware of the history...and it is not that Byzantium abolished the Bagratid Kingdom...it is that they inherited it after the death of it's leader, and promptly lost it to the Seljuks, being as incompetant as they (the romans) were.

no brother they inhereted nothing they forced the Armenian king to give up
their land that is why Armenian king changed lands for thoso in the middle of anatolia(ceasarea) he changed his own homlant into alien Rhomanoi lands and byzantian
never were fools but one of the best police makers in the medieval time
and this king was Gagik II (1042-1045)
i even remember how Armenians invated Mariam Artsruni the doughter of Jonh seneqerim (1003-1022) king of Van*(Vaspurakan) as heir of Armenian kingdom shi was mother of Bagrat IV(1027-1072) of Georgia Georgian even
took the city by support of Armenians - lord of Ani as one souce said because were was no other candidates for this trone(David Anholin king of lore and King Gagik Abas of Kars were to weak to withstand byzantians)
even Georgian support do a little to defende Armenia . byzantium was were strong in that period of time so they won

yes
they were enemeis of Georgia and Armenia but we don't have to blame them
for this as it was their national interest.
and if they lost lands to seljuks it was for several reasons
1) failed police IN Armenia
2) civil war in byzantium
3) no regular army in that particular time (second half of 11 centure)
4) battle of manzikert in 1071 august.
5) and god demned controversy over market staff between civil aristocrats and the lord of Anatonia

[John I Tzimisces]

Well, this is off topic, but now that I look into it, yes, Ani (traditional capitol of the kingdom was siezed by the byzantines), but by this point the entire kingdom was fractured among the various branches of the family, so the fall of the entire realm seems to make sense.

edit: The wiki article on Gagik II (of Ani) is a good source on the fall of the kingdom and the consequences that follow.




The only image of a Nakharar (and even then might only be a Didebul, which is minor nobility...although they wouldn't wear as much armor I suppose) I can find atm.

[Tadzreuli]

ok, John, ok , I have nothing against opinion , just sad what I sad, nothing more ....

ok, finish offtopic.


Alpha,

yes, we (I & Jerusalem) considered at finish and plz rename this unit Khevsurs as - Mandaturi infantry .

looks exellent.

[JERUSALEM]

this is good map realy good map tadzreuli bravo

http://www.historyonmaps.com/ColourS...urope1328.html

now i am ready for my 100 post

[Axeman]

Well I did some historical research, and I compiled a list of cities from ancent times to before 1600

I know some of these may have died out before the game began*like percespolis, I removed the obvious ones* and I will post next to them the level they should start off with, and thier core buildings.

[Axeman]

Cities-City Level-Core buildings*will note if it is a differnet culture other then arabian/muslim(whatever you want to call it)*

-also I apologize for any gammatical mistakes, when I type I type for speed not accuracy, though spelling cities correctly will be a prime priority

Arabian Penninsuila

Aden-Large town- dirt roads, port, and mines
Sanata(modern day Sanaa)-dirt roads,mines,smal masq
*more comming very soon, looking for the link I just had but accidently clicked out of*

[Axeman]

Wow I got really distracted, while I was looking for the link I decided to use paint and use a very basic edition of what factions should be in, also I drew some lines from the starting poitns of hte mongols,timruids,and crusaders to show thier desired routes

[Axeman]

Silly me forgot to post the link

http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/1...yuq7gz2sc3.jpg

[Axeman]

BTW the black areas are the areas I think should be impassable, the other grayed out areas which I guess where intended as impassible should not be

also this is the order in which I would like my suggested factions implimented*if you can find it in your heart*cries*

Empire of Aden
Nahillio Calphiate
Kingdom of Murkata
County of Moldovia
Cumans
Empire of Transoxania
Kievian Rus

note- for factions that border the western edge of the map maybe have catholic invasions since both moldovia and kievians where christans

so our 4 religions can be

Christan*during hte crusaders Orthodox christans and Catholics put aside thier differences*
Muslim
Heretic
and Paganism*I know hindu was not pagan but it would make it more phesiable and allow us to accuractely tie in the Nahillio,Cumans,Transoxanians,and Mongols as Pagan also, far greater gain for 4 factions then a small loss for 1 faction.

[Axeman]

also if you like any of my ideas add a rep=)

[Miraj]

Hi Everybody,

First off I would like to apologise for getting myself banned recently. Its completely my fault as my big fat mouth can't seem to control itself in the Thema Devia! But I have made a deal with the most gracious moderators that will let me continue this good work with the mod.

@ AlphaDelta
I really like your style with the Georgian units. I really hope we can use this amazing talent for making such unique and tasteful skins for ALL the factions. You're on you're way to becoming one of the best!

Thanks all for all your historical contribution and the Georgians are looking like they are going to be really fun to play!

I have not been able to complete all the regions for my map due to midterm exams and will hopefully show you the Caucus and Anatolian cities so I can get your input on how it looks or if you want any more added in.

MIRAGE

[xXx_SpArToN_xXx]

I like the way you guys are really moving forward in the mod and i was wondering if you would like some help with the banner portian of the armies jus giv me a list of factions you'd like done n ill give you some previews of what i can do

[Axeman]

ok I know that im not a skinner but I do have a good sense of fesiability like you said, and if you decide to do all the factions I think you should skin them in this order

Georgia*might as well finish it up*
Byzantium*copy from vanilla and maybe byzantine armor progression mod with permission*
Egypt*same as vanilla, maybe some changes to make it more unique*
Nahillio Calphiate*can implement a mix of morish desert units,camel units,tribesman, and a handful of egyptian units*
Crusaders- use existing crusader models and borrow the new mounted and dismoutned templar knights from road to jerusalem mod with permission
County of Molodiva-a mix between georgian and russian and Byzantine units, should be interesting
Kiev Rus- clone of faction in vanilla, maybe add some unique mercanaries
Cumans-combo of Turkish and mongol units, like in the Portvcale mod
Volga Bulgars-simillar to cumans with more of a mongol/middle eastern influence
Armenia-simillar to georgia with a mix of european heavy units
Kingdom of Jeruslamem-same as cruaders
Turkish Sultunate- take the current turks and add more heavy cavlary and less horse archers and flexible archers
Seljulk Empire-keep the current turks, add in some units for diversity
Abbisad Calphiate- Mix of Seljulk and Turkish Sultunate. add in some unique Euphratian mercanaries and possibly some heavy infantry
Aden-first empire in the middle east to adapt gunpowder after the turks, should have relatively good gunpowder units*no artillery* and excellent flexible infantry with little cavlary, also a good navy
Murkata-simillar to aden except without a good navy and excelelnt gunpowder, will have instead excellent heavy cavlary
mongols-same as vinilla
timuids-see above
Transoxiania-a mix of inidan and arabian units, heavy cavlary and infantry without good skimishers or horse archers
Sultunate of Dehli-simillar to transoxiania but with less diversity but a larger selection of horse archers
Rajput states- relies heavily on heavy cavlary, should be best cavlary power in game with formidable spearmen*use the saxon thiegs model and reskin it* also will HAVE ELEPHANTS

[Axeman]

oh and Sultunate of Ghanzi last

[Miraj]

Hi Axeman,

Thanks alot for the input and enthusiasm in this mod. Appreciate it! I checked out the proposed map changes and also the new factions you'd like to see. There are somethings that interest me and others that I probably won't add. Kievan Rus falls outside of the scope of this map and I won't add any major faction when most of their core regions fall outside the map.

This mod will have a tight focus on the middle east and I will at most add one more southern or northern faction.

I will definitely consider an ethipion/african faction for the south of Egypt and I like the idea of adding in the Cumans.

However the first intended release of this mod will probably not include any of them because I will focus heavily on the core factions mainly the Muslim ones along with Georgia and Armenia - major factions which I feel have been neglected and ignored by both vanilla and other M2TW mods.

Once we're done this we will then begin to add other cool elements and factions as this mod becomes popular and new versions are made.

But keep up the good info and ideas!

MIRAGE

[Miraj]

Here are some more map screens just for interest. Most of the ground types in the east are done.

Please note: This map is UNDER CONSTRUCTION. No rivers are show and there is a LOT more tweaking to do to make it look gorgeous and pleasing. Also the regions are being added one by one. Will be done hopefully by the weekend.


The mighty Khyber pass, the only direct access point into North India. At game start there will be a massive and fierce tribal army blocking this pass. You will have to fight them to sieze the riches of India!



The Indus Valley, Thar Desert and Indian forrests. Rivers not included yet.



The great Thar desert of India. Will be uncrossable and will prevent any southern entry to India.


The forests of India. Perfect for ambushes.


North India near the Himalayas.


The Afghan region with ground types completed. Cities like Kabul, Kandahar, Herat and Ghazni will be located in these high and rugged lands.


This is where Samarqand and Bukhara will go. They will be the richest regions of the map along with Constantinople


The Balochistan hill tracts. Will be populated by fierce and dangerous tribes, but also fierce and recruitable mercenaries.


Our first honorary Georgian city. Say hello to Kutaisi!



More to come soon!

[Axeman]

Hi Axeman,

Thanks alot for the input and enthusiasm in this mod. Appreciate it! I checked out the proposed map changes and also the new factions you'd like to see. There are somethings that interest me and others that I probably won't add. Kievan Rus falls outside of the scope of this map and I won't add any major faction when most of their core regions fall outside the map.

This mod will have a tight focus on the middle east and I will at most add one more southern or northern faction.

I will definitely consider an ethipion/african faction for the south of Egypt and I like the idea of adding in the Cumans.

However the first intended release of this mod will probably not include any of them because I will focus heavily on the core factions mainly the Muslim ones along with Georgia and Armenia - major factions which I feel have been neglected and ignored by both vanilla and other M2TW mods.

Once we're done this we will then begin to add other cool elements and factions as this mod becomes popular and new versions are made.

But keep up the good info and ideas!

MIRAGE

I can understand that, I added some factions outside to emphasis this 1 important fact, much of the middle easts history has been made by outside forces!

But I understand, but please keep in the county of Moldovia, historically they fought the turks and volga bulgars and cumans and where very important in eastern europe

[xXx_SpArToN_xXx]

looks great mirage. i have some gd news n some bad. i found i few more files that require changing for all the symbols n stuff, jus minor. the good news is alot of the banners can jus be modled of the old ones took make em look... worn

-SpArTiE

[AlphaDelta]

Good to see you back Mirage.

This thread is getting long and cluttered, is there any news on the possibility of us getting a sub forum?

This mod will have a tight focus on the middle east and I will at most add one more southern or northern faction.

I agree that we need to avoid adding more factions until we have a full roster of units for each faction.

Looking at the list of factions on page 1, we can divide it into two classes based upon the current state of their unit rosters: 99% complete and yet to be started.

99% Complete
The Sultanate of Egypt
The Turkish Sultanate
The Byzantine Empire
The Kingdom of Georgia
The Mongol Empire
The Timurids

Yet to be started
The Abbasid Caliphate
The Shahdom of Khwarezm
The Kingdom of Armenia
The Sultanate of Ghazni
The Sultanate of Delhi
The Volga Bulgars
The Kingdom of Jersalem
The Rajput States

Looking at that list, we're a little under half way there.

We need to develop a list of units for each faction along with more detailed information and pictures for the specific units. Also we need to decide on basic colours and symbols for each faction so that skinning can begin.

I want to start working on the Armenian units but I currently have none of the above. Are there any other mods that are including Armenia, perhaps we can trade some resources.

EDIT: After a quick search I found that Chivalry total war (an RTW mod) has Armenia and a faction preview can be seen here. I can clone that unit roster (and add 1 or 2 archer units) and add it to our mod with little difficulty. Any objections to this?

Egypt*same as vanilla, maybe some changes to make it more unique*

I have added dismounted mamluks and dismounted mounted mamluk archers to my Egyptian roster, these should add extra variety.

xXx_SpArToN_xXx,

The symbol looks good, but there is a lot of noise in the banner background and none in the symbol. Also be careful when you rescale the symbol not to distort its shape and also take note of the orientation of the flag..I think the symbol on that flag will be rotated 90 degrees when in-game.

Cheers