Gay spirituality?

[Amorphos]

Gay spirituality?

In alchemy the eternal androgene is a prominent if not ultimate figure of divinity – the male female union in a single being. I cant see how you can have a male aspect deity [e.g. A creator] without having a female one [e.g. Sacred feminine or gaia], if then you begin with the union then diverge into the two aspects what is the higher?

1. is being gay an expression of the androgene?
2. is there anything wrong with gay spirituality?
3. can divinity have a gay aspect?

I think yes to all three, as i am doing a paper for various druidic orders [and to go in a book - the annam turas] concerning this matter [on a wider level] i would like an intelligent and well thought out response from any of you, weather it be for or against.

[Zenith Darksea]

What?

[RZZZA]

I dont think you meant for this to be funny, but it is.

First of all...can you define spirituality please? Thats just faith without all the dogma and ritual and glitz, am I correct?

I always thought the catholic church was pretty gay, I mean look at these guys:





Few can achieve such flamboyancy

[Amorphos]

Eh! why is it funny? Spirituality here includes the spiritual aspect of religion.

I did ask for intelligent answers,but if you want to make yourselves look pretty dumb in my eyes than so be it – now thats funny!

[Sétanta]

1. is being gay an expression of the androgene?

No. Being gay is an expression of having sexual feelings toward your own gender, not being a male/female divinity.

2. is there anything wrong with gay spirituality?

A gay can be spiritual.

3. can divinity have a gay aspect?

God is sexless. He created man and woman in His image. Although we usually associate Him with a male form, hence the "Him", He really doesn't have a sex, race, ethnicity, or any of those human identifiers.

[Amorphos]

Setanta,hi

in some traditions there is the idea of the male female universal principle e.g.

The holly and the ivy
in druidic lore there is a story concerning a primeval and eternal 'battle' or interaction between the male and female principles.
The male penetrates the the female like the sword into the cup, the male essence then goes on to fertilize the female egg in its final and deepest penetration. The masculine is then engulfed by the feminine which forms the universal point and sphere, once this has occurred the two aspects are united into the androgene principle in it's foetal shape and form. Here we meet the ancient druidic image of the female adder which swallows the male adder and then gives birth to it, as in spiritual terms and in principle that is exactly what is occurring.

the important thing to note is that this is an eternal struggle and the very essence of all life and form. We can see this at work on many levels of reality, we see it in the atom with its nucleus and orbiting electrons, then on the the macroscopic scale we can see it at work in solar systems and galaxies throughout the universe. We may speculate the the universe in its entirety also follows suite; it begins with the principle forming a singularity within the womb of infinity, and the universe is literally the foetus of universal being and primordial principle.
Note that the creative and the nurturing aspects cannot be separated, you cant just have a creator god on its own, secondly there is no actual beginning just the eternal return,the process just keeps rolling on.
Spiritually the androgene is the highest aspect of the union of masculine and feminine, this is seen in 'the world' card of common tarot decks.
--------------------------------------------------
So not only can gays have spirituality but they may have a divine aspect! Being gay may be on the face of it, simply a form of sexuality, but here i am considering the idea that there may be a reason for it in spiritual terms.

[RZZZA]

Its funny because "gay spirituality" makes you start to think funny thoughts, thats all.

I dont know what gay spirituality is, is it like gay people praying to their own special gay deities or something? If so, they can take a lot of cues from the greeks, I believe they had some gay gods.

like Saturn, I think he was a homosexual god.

God is sexless. He created man and woman in His image. Although we usually associate Him with a male form, hence the "Him", He really doesn't have a sex, race, ethnicity, or any of those human identifiers.

I agree with this 100%, I often reject the modern notion that God is "human" like.

[SickBoy13]

I agree with this 100%, I often reject the modern notion that God is "human" like.

Exactly, it is we who are made in his image, not the opposite.
And there is no difference between spirituality for a gay person opposed to a straight person. Homosexuals just have different sexual attractions. Other than that, there is no difference between straights and gays.
However, it is not 100% my place to say. Ask tBP.

[the Black Prince]

the androgene is the union of male and female, of the Horned Lord and the Mother Goddess. I don't see how you can associate that with gayness.

generally being gay isn't the union of the 2 halves, but a rebalance of the gender specification of but one of the halves, in otherwords, implying upon some aspect of the male, the female...

ahhh
i get it now!!!!
yes, you are in fact right!

wow
i've honestly never thought about it that way!

wow
thats actually pretty amazing, cheers Quetz


can divinity have a gay aspect...? doesn't it already? the homosexuality implied within certain single gender cults and the rites associated therein, especially certain aspects of the Cult of Isis (albeit non druidic).
It could be said that the union of the 3 goddesses is implicitly gay too, though i think thats perhaps a misunderstanding of that story

[The Fish]

Adding to this, if I may, in some Hindu traditions, particularly Vaishnavaite philosophies, the supersoul is seen as containing both male and female aspects (for instance, Vishnu and Lakshmi residing together). The inseparability of the two even extends down to the avatars (e.g. Rama and Sita together). Thus these concepts are certainly widespread; I've never heard them quite phrased as homosexual, however. One interesting idea (also from Hindu traditions) is that of Ardhanarishwara. This is a form of Siva in which he encompasses both male and female within the same form (the name literally translates as "half woman God"):


This incorporation of both aspects into one corporeal figure differs from Vaishnava concepts, which view the male/female aspects of the paramatma more as a couple in close contact. In any case, an interesting study in possible transgender concepts in the ancient world? I'm grasping at straws here.

[Amorphos]

Hello fish
interesting! How i am seeing it is that being gay is an outer expression of this.

Mind if i use the pic and some of the content at other forums?

[The Fish]

Hello fish
interesting! How i am seeing it is that being gay is an outer expression of this.

Mind if i use the pic and some of the content at other forums?

Quetz, I'm tempted to give you a long-winded answer from a Hindu perspective, but I wouldn't want to derail this thread...perhaps we can take it to the Hinduism thread?

Oh, and you can use whatever you want from my previous post (the pic isn't mine or anything, I found it on the web).

[the Black Prince]

from a purely biological point of view, you are correct, sickboy.

a gay person and a straight person can indeed be equally spiritual, and belong to any religious or spiritual body group cult or organisation

that doesn't however answer questions 1 and 3 that Quetz posted...

[Captain Arrrgh!]

Interesting question here, Quetz, but we must divorce sexual identity with spiritual identity.
In druidism, and other spiritual pursuits, the male and female essence take on a broader aspect than simply physical 'male' and 'female' from my understanding. Hetero's, gays and bi's can all be spiritual, without question, but from my own ruminations on these matters it is folly to identify one's sexual orientation with their spiritual pursuits. Doing this would fetter a person, preventing them from discovering actual truth.
@ Fish
Interesting. Androginy is prevalent throughout several cultures' religions, though if I understand the original post, we are dealing with sexual orientation rather than physical. Unless, are there members here who believe spirituality incorporates or relies on the material existence wherein sexuality dwells? Whoops, I've just gone and confused myself, but I had a point somewhere.

[Cassy]

One of the earliest Egyptian myths involves two male Gods having sex with one another. The starting chat up line is 'what a nice bum you have.'

[Captain Arrrgh!]

One of the earliest Egyptian myths involves two male Gods having sex with one another. The starting chat up line is 'what a nice bum you have.'

(From tha Captain)
Ahhh yes, Oi be used that thar line on many a cabin boy HAR HAR HAR!!!
(From the person who writes as the Captain)
Yes, on many occasions in myths and relgions past, sexuality plays an important role. There are the incestuous relationships between the various Hellenic deities, and in Asian myth the mating of tiger and dragon, representing yin/yang essence, with tiger swallowing dragon's seed and spitting up pearl. So in keeping in line with the original post, does anyone believe that sexuality has a place in spirituality, and if so, is there particular meaning tied to gender types in sexual/spiritual relations?

[Space Wolf]

Gay spirituality? Oxymoron, no?

[Cassy]

Gay spirituality? Oxymoron, no?

This is clearly just a troll. Like it or not, there are millions of homosexual people who are religious. Like it or not, there are homosexual bishops.

[Yosemite]

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/in...f953b16b76712d











Sorry.

[Odovacar]

Being androgyn doesnt mean that someone has to be gay, I mean, desiring sexual contact with a male...
Rather bisexual. Or asexual. (After all he-she can have sex with her-his own self, having the genitals of both gender...or as a perfect being doesnt require sex at all)

Jesus by some early christian sect-inspired by helenism- was painted as an androgyn figure, having male body but female breasts. This was supposed to show that he is perfect, as perfection can only be achieved if you possess every particularity, including sparate genders.

Some philosophies like the ancient Tao had the opinion that the male Yang must fill himself with the essence of Ying, which makes him perfect, as the Ying is the source of life and power.
Yes, power, because Ying never attacks, and cannot be hurted in her passiv flexibility, just like the water.