Are Atheists better for humanity than Theists?

[Tajir]

Is this the newest conclusion that Atheists have come up with in their opposition to religion?

I don't know about the majority of you, but I've found this fun-filled quote in the S.I.N. launch thread:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=43481

I'll join. The religion have caused a lot of troubles in the history of human being.

I don't mean to trample on anyone's beliefs, but is this one of Atheism's mission goals? Because if it is, then we have some talking to do. :hmmm:

[I personally like to think that Russia was 100x more genocidal as the Atheist Soviet Nation than it was the Christian People's Republic in earlier eras]

[Ó Cathasaigh]

People are people and alot of people behave in an "evil" fashion.
It's true, religion has been used as a way to kill and oppress, but so has nationalism, so has patriotism, so has tribalism. Religion is not the source of the worlds problems, as many would have you beleive.

[Last Roman]

It's true, religion has been used as a way to kill and oppress, but so has nationalism, so has patriotism, so has tribalism.

now you know the arguments for nihilism

Religion is not the source of the worlds problems, as many would have you believe.

It's not the source, but it's a source.





A pre-warning: I know this type of stuff gets heated, so lets all keep cool heads

[RZZZA]

religion sure does seem like a source of problems in the middle east...

i.e. ultimately, it seems to divide more than unite

And I dont think atheism has any "mission goals", other than not buying into peoples B.S. when they can spot it.

[Tajir]

religion sure does seem like a source of problems in the middle east...

i.e. ultimately, it seems to divide more than unite

And I dont think atheism has any "mission goals", other than not buying into peoples B.S. when they can spot it.

Middle East? Tensions affected by religion? Totally innacurate.

The middle east is plagued by two major things:

-Territorial strife
-Outside Influence

Israel and Kurdistan are examples of territorial strife. It has nothing to do with religion. Arabs in the mediterranean oppose European-Israeli ventures into their lands, this has been on-going since 1947.

Kurds want their own land, and this causes problems for Syrian, Iraqi, Iranian, and Turkish authorities.

Iraq is the only major region affected by outside influence.

Before US/Coalition invasion of Iraq in 2003, there were currently only 148 victims of Sectarian violence, and this was a prison massacre in 1982 whereby Sunni Saddam Hussein killed 148 Shias who failed to assassinate him. And this was CLEARLY less religious based, but rather just another power struggle.

[Ó Cathasaigh]

take away religion. Imagine a world without religion (Oh, God. I'm sounding like John Lenin) and you still have War, you still have killing, murder, death, famine, theft. Not in the name of religion though.

If we were all to truely practice, say Christianity as a true christian should, we would not need worry about such things happening. Alas, many have taken the name of God with the sword, weither it was for personal gain or the fact they were decieved into doing so I cannot say.

[Tajir]

take away religion. Imagine a world without religion (Oh, God. I'm sounding like John Lenin) and you still have War, you still have killing, murder, death, famine, theft. Not in the name of religion though.

If we were all to truely practice, say Christianity as a true christian should, we would not need worry about such things happening. Alas, many have taken the name of God with the sword, weither it was for personal gain or the fact they were decieved into doing so I cannot say.

Atheists should look towards the formerly ultra-Atheist Soviet Union and China.

Those were the only two official Atheist states in recorded history -- its clear that Atheists want nothing more than Communist expansion. *Note: I'm over-emphasizing like the Atheists do*

[RZZZA]

take away religion. Imagine a world without religion (Oh, God. I'm sounding like John Lenin) and you still have War, you still have killing, murder, death, famine, theft. Not in the name of religion though.

So you and I both agree that humanity has to overcome a lot of bologna to ensure our longterm survival?

If we were all to truely practice, say Christianity as a true christian should, we would not need worry about such things happening. Alas, many have taken the name of God with the sword, weither it was for personal gain or the fact they were decieved into doing so I cannot say.

But the very idea that everybody should be christian is a cause of war and strife and all that stuff you just mentioned. So the only answer is that, if we are to survive, we have to collctively get over religious, ethnic and national division.

Or someone can conquer the world and put into place their own set of standards, like Alexander did

[Last Roman]

take away religion. Imagine a world without religion (Oh, God. I'm sounding like John Lenin) and you still have War, you still have killing, murder, death, famine, theft. Not in the name of religion though.

Indeed we would because humans are irrational beings. But I don't think as much war if we never had religion.

However, I do think religion has a huge historical importance. It shows that humans were trying to explain the world around them. Religion was just a first step.

btw, it's John Lennon

[AngryTitusPullo]

Indeed we would because humans are irrational beings. But I don't think as much war if we never had religion.

This is the most funny beliefs that I've ever heard of. Haven't playing Total Wars games though you enough that wars has been going on for ages even before the religious conflict took over ?

Since history is recorded there's wars all over the world, with or without religion.

[Last Roman]

This is the most funny beliefs that I've ever heard of. Haven't playing Total Wars games though you enough that wars has been going on for ages even before the religious conflict took over ?

Since history is recorded there's wars all over the world, with or without religion.

like I said, there would still be wars, just not as many (for example, no crusades, no 30 years war etc)

[Ulyaoth]

like I said, there would still be wars, just not as many (for example, no crusades, no 30 years war etc)

But instead Europe would probably have fought each other to the death during the Dark Ages without christianity to try to keep them calm. And wow, a few less wars would be waged, maybe 1 in 10000 were truly religious based and not just an excuse.

[AngryTitusPullo]

like I said, there would still be wars, just not as many (for example, no crusades, no 30 years war etc)

Well.. let's see...

1450 BC Minoan culture destroyed perhaps by the Mycenaeans (saurely not earthquakes of the Hands of God ?)

1200 BC Invasion of the Sea Peoples destroys Mycenaean civilization. Greece enters a 400 year "Dark Age"; writing was forgotten; cities abandoned. Linear B would not be read again until modern times.

1185 BC Trojan War.

1130 BC Iron used for weapons and tools. (weapons to hunt animals ?)

1000 BC Chinese develop gunpowder by mixing saltpeter, charcoal, and sulfur and grinding carefully (surely gunpowder wasn't invented to make rockets to send men to the moon).

725 BC Sparta conquers Messenia and forms Helot slavery.

490 BC Twenty-six miles from Athens on the plain of Marathon, 11,000 Athenians fight 100,000 Persians. If the Greeks lose the battle, the city of Athens will flee to the hills. If the Athenians win the battle at Marathon, the Athenians will stay and try to hold the city against the Persian navy. While the battle rages the Athenians waited for the word, to flee or to fortify. A lone runner, Eucles, runs 26 miles and brings the much awaited news. According to legend, he utters "Nike" (victory) and then dies from exhaustion. 6,400 Persians are killed but only 192 Greeks.

480 BC Spartan King Leonidas, 300 Spartans, and their allies make a sacrificial last stand at Thermopylae against Xerxes and the Persians.

479 BC Athenian navy is victorious over the Persian Navy at battle of Salamis.

479 BC 110,000 Greek hoplites defeat 300,000 Persians at the battle of Plataea. The Persians suffered 257,000 casualties, the Greek only 159.

460-455 BC Thucydides writes The Peloponnesian War and builds upon Herodotus's work of recording history. Thucydides though, is more direct and rigorous in his writing, leaving out extraneous stories and dubious material. He also omits references to the gods of Homer as causes events in human affairs.

480 BC Second Persian War. The Athenians retreat, and the Persian forces led by Xerxes destroy Athens, but Greek forces win a major naval battle at Salamis.

415 BC The disastrous Athenian invasion of Sicily. Before his death, Pericles warned the Athenians not to try to expand their empire until the war with Sparta was completed. They knew better and destroyed two fleets trying to win new territory. Although not the final blow in the war with Sparta, this disaster started the decline of Athens.

406 BC Battle of Arginusae

404 BC Sparta finally defeats Athens in the Peloponnesian War with a navy financed by the Persians.

396 BC Rome defeats the Etruscan city of Veii after 80 years of war and starts the eventual rise of Rome. The Etruscans were skilled engineers and craftsmen. Many of the "Roman" innovations, like their numerals, were really taken from the Etruscans.

371 BC The Thebans defeat of a Spartan Army at Leucrra. This marks the end of the centuries-old Spartan reputation of being unbeatable

386 BC The Gallic Senones tribesmen sack Rome and occupy it for seven months. The Romans never forgot this.

338 BC Philip of Macedon conquers Greece in the battle of Chaeronea.

333 BC Alexander the Great defeats Persia under Darius at battle of Issus. Alexander was the fourth in a line of great men and scholars: Socrates, Plato, Aristotle. Darius escapes and gathers his forces for the next battle.

331 BC Alexander's 35,000 troops fight Darius's 200,000 in the battle of Gaugamela. Darius has leveled the wide plain to allow better use of his chariots and superior numbers. Alexander leads his troops off to the edge of the prepared field. This tatic opens a gap in the Persian lines that Alexander drives into, threatening King Darius himself. In panic Darius flees. Seeing their king depart, some in the Persian army scatter.

332 BC Alexander the Great conquers Egypt. The Greeks bring coinage into Egypt for the first time.

280 BC King Pyrrhus of Epirus wins a battle against the Romans, but his casualties are very high.

279 BC "One more such victory and we are lost," said the Greek King Pyrrhus after the battle of Asculum in Italy with the Romans.

264-241 BC First Punic War between Rome and Carthage (called "Punic" from "Phoenician"). Hamilcar Barca commands the army and never loses a major battle. Hamilcar feels betrayed when the politicians of Carthage surrender. He feels they can still win the war. Hamilcar makes his son Hannibal swear an oath to hate Rome.

Shall I go on ? That's just that major wars recorded in history. Even looking into this context the Crusades are actually the continuation of conflicts between West and East. Where it was betwwen nations (Greeks and Persians) the wars has transmorgified into religions (Christian and Islam).

Even until the modern time, the conflict is still not resolved. Thw wars and occupation of the USA in Iraq are continuation of the past. Not the crusades, but goes back before that in times of antiquity.

Like Alexander who was seduced by the richest in the East during his period, so did western leader today. It used to be yellow hard gold, now it was replaced by the fluid black gold.

[Ulyaoth]

Every religion(that I can think of, modern at least) claims to be a religion of peace and tolerance, yet there's still war. Obviously it's just people, they might throw religion in to try to justify it, but they'd most likely go to war anyway.

[Denny Crane!]

A recent study suggested that belief in a monotheistic religion does have an adverse effect on society.

http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

[Tajir]

A recent study suggested that belief in a monotheistic religion does have an adverse effect on society.

http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

Yes...SCORE ONE for the good guys.

[Last Roman]

Yes...SCORE ONE for the good guys.

why are atheists the "bad" guys?

[Tajir]

why are atheists the "bad" guys?

There are no bad guys. Just good guys and ultra-neutrals (Atheists).

[Guy]

Athiests aren't bad. I am a non-believer myself though. This is how I see it.

Think of it like this, England are 3 goals down in the World Cup Final to Germany. Some people believe England are gonna win yet other believe that they should just give up.

I don't mean I see religion as a World Cup Final is just an example.

(Why were so many Athiests communists. Lenin? What did he do for the Athiest view?)

[Ulyaoth]

A recent study suggested that belief in a monotheistic religion does have an adverse effect on society.

http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

What's that quote again? Coincidence does not equal correlation or something like that? I only read the conclusion but it basically seems like they're saying, "lol the south is crap and they're religious, too, that means being religious gives you stds and makes your daughter pregnant and her boyfriend kill you!"