US sanctioning virginia

[Hells Bells]

http://www.wtop.com/?sid=1066505&nid=25
the department of education is sanctioning virginia for its noncompliance with nclb. Bush has refused to rule out the nuclear option

[Tom Paine]

Seriously, its stupid to sanction Virginia for trying to deal with a problem created by the absolutist No Child Left Behind system... utterly pointless, and gets one nothing.

[Khan Kong]

There's a joke: We should say to US that there's nuclear weapon in California, and it will start to bomb it.
Well, every joke has a little bit truth...

[danzig]

There's a joke: We should say to US that there's nuclear weapon in California, and it will start to bomb it.
Well, every joke has a little bit truth...

Sorry I was looking for the joke and didnt see it...where is it again? Funny ones tend to have bits of truth but yours was neither funny nor has any truth to it sorry

And good always hated Virginia. Seriously I dont think the government is wrong in this, they DID have a long period of time to prepare for this and evidently havent. This is the problem with US educational system in alot of areas, too lax and sitting on their ass...not that THIS is an vital area of concern but it is a symptom of the problem. Can argue whether NCL itself is a good policy or not but the lack of holding schools to a standard to live up to is one of the biggest problems.

[Khan Kong]

Sorry I was looking for the joke and didnt see it...where is it again? Funny ones tend to have bits of truth but yours was neither funny nor has any truth to it sorry

It's just hard to imagine for me, how a country can make sanctions to its own state. That's why i remembered this joke, that is not to be funny necessarily
This is something new for me to learn about. Of course, every country has its own way to deal with its states.

[Farnan]

Here's how it does it. The US Department of Education gives federal money to states for education. The states then agree to comply with certain standards. What is happening now is that since Virginia is not complying wiht the standards the DOE is cutting off funding till it does.

[Tom Paine]

So... we stop it improving its education system by cutting its funding so it improves its education system with reduced funding... am I the only one confused by this silly logic that also infects the British systems?

[Lavastein]

So... we stop it improving its education system by cutting its funding so it improves its education system with reduced funding... am I the only one confused by this silly logic that also infects the British systems?

no your not, but what else can they do other than hit them in the pocket? :hmmm:

[Tom Paine]

Maybe change the managers?

[danzig]

So... we stop it improving its education system by cutting its funding so it improves its education system with reduced funding... am I the only one confused by this silly logic that also infects the British systems?

The problem is it isnt improving with the funding so what else is there to do but to 'nudge' them in the right direction. The US educational system is caught in a death lock by unions so any attempt at changes/revamping it on local level is often met with resistances and the Fed governments ability to influence it is limited to this.

Maybe change the managers?

The federal government has no power to do that so its only recourse to influence change is thru funding and the local level see above.

[Khan Kong]

The federal government has no power to do that so its only recourse to influence change is thru funding and the local level see above.

Is that mean that the federal minister of education can't fire his local collegue? He can only govern with money??

[Tom Paine]

But cutting funding will hardly improve relations or performance; while the problem may not be with funding, cutting funding may well create an additional problem. This seems to be one flaw of a generally sensible system of federal government...

[danzig]

But cutting funding will hardly improve relations or performance; while the problem may not be with funding, cutting funding may well create an additional problem. This seems to be one flaw of a generally sensible system of federal government...

I know and Id agree if I hadnt experience the crap first hand here in NYC and the 'battle' for control of the PE system. The amount of money/power hungry union officials here in NYC combined with idiocy of past local/state officials left the system buckle to the point of collapse. I give alot credit for turning the corner with the system to Giuliani but still there are many issues. Now the Virgina situation could very well be far different then here in NYC so I can only base my views on what Ive seen here and say 'good' if the Federal goverment is applying any sort of pressure. I say that someone who is states right sorta of person but shrug sometimes you gotta take a sledgehammer to something that is broken beyond repair to get it right.

[Tom Paine]

danzig, in some situations, I'm forced to argue that the system is broken... the Federal government needs to have more remedies than financial to these problems, it really does.

[danzig]

danzig, in some situations, I'm forced to argue that the system is broken... the Federal government needs to have more remedies than financial to these problems, it really does.

As much as I hate federal government meddling in 'local' affairs I agree its one reason why I support various 'school choice' options which would *force* school systems to adapt or die. Problem is it just wont happen, too powerful of a teachers union and as things are now the federal government just doesn't have the authority to anything else. We are basically hamstrung by our own system, it needs to be changed but the way its setup it cant be changed without politicians expending massive amount of political capital to bring it about and risk hanging themselves to unions. Its why you have seen some states try and tackle it on local level.

Is that mean that the federal minister of education can't fire his local collegue? He can only govern with money??

Yep Hell man the US didnt even *have* a federal ministry of education aka Department of Education til 1979 and its power/influence is virtually nothing due to fact the US educational system isnt centralized as Farnan pointed out. This is probably the one area I wish we Americans were more "European" like...I simply would never allow my daughter to attend a public school. The system is far too open to influence by advocacy groups, whether its Intelligent Design nutcases or people who think sex ed should suggest various food products to use for :wub: if no other lubricant is available....and I wish I was joking

[Farnan]

It can't Constitutionally. To change that we would have to amend the Constitution. Also the US is physcially a lot larger than the UK, thus there are more different type of situations that must be dealt with at the local level. A school in the Bronx is different than a school is rural Wyoming.

To Khan Kong: Nope, he doesn't hire his local colleague either as the state secretary of education is usually elected and education is a state power.

[RZZZA]

"The Virginia Department of Education had sought an exemption from the law for another year, contending that the rule is unfair because students who haven't mastered English are unlikely to pass grade-level reading exams."


Uhh....too bad? So they fail.

Whats the controversy here? I dont get it. Theyre expected to pass standard reading tests, if they dont pass then they fail. If they fail they get to try again until they do pass.

Wheres the tragedy?

[ErikinWest]

Maybe states should be in charge of education.

Erik

[Tom Paine]

Maybe states should be in charge of education.

Erik

Either states or the Federal, not a combination. Note that the only real control of the Federal authority is financial; the real clout lies with the state. An abominable state of affairs (no pun intended), far too mixed up.

[Khan Kong]

I've got some more question. May be offtop. Is that all US' political system based on such indirect governing? If so, don't you afraid that if one day US become bakrupt it will be shattered into many independent states?