US Female Sniper Holds Record For Most Kills

[Space Wolf]

US Female Sniper Holds Record For Highest Number of Confirmed Kills.

This never happened. Could it ever happen?

Women are not allowed to be in combat units. They can join the Armed forces and become very successful, but only in a support element. No women serve in the Infantry, Artillery, Cavalry, Close Combat Support Units.

But ,could women be Infantry and Special Forces in the US Military? There are high ranking women throughout the armed forces, Generals even. If they can lead men in combat from the safety of the Pentagon, than why cant they be a Sgt. on the front line carring out the orders?

What are you views on women in combat? Can they be equal to a man in the field? Would having a women in the platoon affect the men in a bad way?

Discuss. Hopefully we can stay civil.

[Tiwaz]

Nevermind. Misread.

Anyway, I have serious doubt females would fit in this task. It takes different kind of thinking then what females are best at.

Generally females do well in verbal and multitasking while men have skills in mathematics and 3 dimensional visualisation. While some females might be unusually skilled in latter 2 (which help a lot in long range shots) I doubt they would beat unusually skilled men. Not to mention that for female with such skills to find herself in position of sniper is not that good.

This could be seen in comparison of existing sniper statistics. Females were snipers in USSR during WW2 but they were not near top of males, is this because of them being protected more or simple lack of affinity compared to males? Anyone is free to guess.

[boofhead]

I doubt women would be as good at marksmanship as men. The male brain is made for hunting/stalking/aiming etc.

Apart from that, if a woman wants the job and proves herself capable of the same standards required of a man, I have no problem with it. Just like male infantry, a female infantrywoman should have the same pass-levels for fitness, endurance etc. If they can do it - no probs.

Any lowering of the bar to accommodate women in such a serious and potentially deadly business as war is unacceptable and a risk to both herself and her fellow soldiers.

I recall a controversy in the US where women were pushed into carrier-based jet pilot jobs on a quota basis. It didn't take long for one woman to stall her aircraft, crash into the ocean and die as a result of the bar having been lowered to accommodate her.

[Space Wolf]

You bring up a very good point. When has lowering standards ever increased the quality of any organization?
I've known quite a few military girls who were the equal of, or better than their male counterparts. But I must say women who join the military should not be seen as a direct ratio to the female population of a nation.
I am not lying when I tell you; out of the twelve women marines I have known, four were lesbians, and the other eight were really slutty. Two of those dykes could keep up with males in pt and training. Three of the strait girls were pretty tough, one of them was a bad-ass rambo killer.
These are just my personal experiences. I must add that every one of the guys could keep up and stay with the pack.

[Lavastein]

I am not lying when I tell you; out of the twelve women marines I have known, four were lesbians, and the other eight were really slutty. Two of those dykes could keep up with males in pt and training. Three of the strait girls were pretty tough, one of them was a bad-ass rambo killer.
These are just my personal experiences. I must add that every one of the guys could keep up and stay with the pack.

HAHAHAHA! slutty eh? Sounds like just the right girls for the job

In combat you have to be able to lift heavy weaponry and most of these girls are short carrying m16 rifles. I mean come on, the last thing i want is a girl who's helmet is falling off her head and her rifle is protruding from her breasts

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

Of course women can.
Not all women obviously but on the other hand not all men fit for that role either.
If a woman wanna be in those roles and pass the same tests like the rest then I have no problem.

[Tiwaz]

Of course women can.
Not all women obviously but on the other hand not all men fit for that role either.
If a woman wanna be in those roles and pass the same tests like the rest then I have no problem.

But have you thought that for female to pass most requirements designed for men they already have to operate near their best ability? Men have, even after passing physical requirements, potential left while female has to tap most of her potential to reach the requirements.

For example French Foreign Legion with rather rough physical requirements to be considered to join. Those guys who pass the test are not at their peak condition, they will continue to improve while in legion. They simply have starting condition from which it is faster and easier to reach the peak.

Female would be already near her peak just to pass in most cases. She would be the weakest link in organisation.

Simple biology, man is bigger, has far larger amount of testosterone and adrenalin (females have small amounts of testosterone naturally) and more robust build overall with bigger muscles and stronger bones.

[Manji]

I never saw a woman (military) that could "kick my ass" but perhaps there is one somewhere in the world.
The issue is that they aren't really suited to combat action because of their inate biological differences; on the other hand I've always heard they are better suited to administrative (command) roles and as pilots.

[hunter260859]

Well many Russian snipers during the war where women and they did a pretty damn good job i think if a woman can pass the physical requirements equal to the men then they should be allowed.

[Mikelus Trento]

Well many Russian snipers during the war where women and they did a pretty damn good job i think if a woman can pass the physical requirements equal to the men then they should be allowed.

According to a show i watched once on the history Channel, Russian female snipers were indeed the most effective during WWII, and a number of the top ones, based on kills, were female.

[Sosobra]

I never saw a woman (military) that could "kick my ass" but perhaps there is one somewhere in the world.
The issue is that they aren't really suited to combat action because of their inate biological differences; on the other hand I've always heard they are better suited to administrative (command) roles and as pilots.

I have met quite a few women in the Marine Corp that could to number on a large portion of the male population. In my experience Women are more agile and have more finesse, while men underestimate them. I have met men who are incompent at their jobs and men who do well, likewise for women.

If they would only change the standards to being the same for everyone then I would be perfectly fine with women in frontline positions. Its hard to put your life in the hands of someone who has lower standards then you.

[Manji]

If they would only change the standards to being the same for everyone then I would be perfectly fine with women in frontline positions. Its hard to put your life in the hands of someone who has lower standards then you.

But that, for me, is the problem. When I was in the army all the sergeants (males) joked about how easy it was for a woman to "get onboard" seeing as, for them, the intellectual skills were given more importance than the physical capabilities, not to mention they had a easier time in basic training.

I have no doubt that women can be on par with men in any branch and given activity, it's just that they aren't biologically "fit" to such roles, unlike males. Why have a low-standard army just for the sake of equality? I'd rather have equality in the civillian job market than in the Army.

[Your Lame Sister]

if a woman passes the training required, why not? it has all the skill a man whop passed training has, and there ios no reason why it shouldn't participate in combat operations. and of course the standards must not be lowered for women.

and if you think that getting women in the army will destroy it, than your army already has bigger problems.

[bigfootedfred]

I never saw a woman (military) that could "kick my ass" but perhaps there is one somewhere in the world.

Oh i assure you. there are plenty.

[Manji]

Oh i assure you. there are plenty.

I don't doubt that, I'm just sure that the ratio males:females that can kick my ass is lower on the side of females.

[Lusted]

If they're willing to fight and potentially die for thier country, and pass the physical tests i see no reason why they shouldn't be able to fight on the front lines.

[CiusFortius]

Depends on the role. Same thing happened with fire-fighters. They decided the same test would apply and some women made it and make great firefighters, others could not handle the heavy lifting etc. In the case of snipers the skills are prety hefty. Endurance is a huge must and that inlcudes carrying heavy equipment for long periods as snipers are often unable to resuply for long periods, and their specialised equipment is heavy as well. I think there are women who could but also agree that men are biologically stronger and better suited to being ground based soldiers. Pilots and technical operators should be whover is best though.

I should mention that the best shot I know is a girl who weighs in at about 50kg (110 ounds). She decided to do sharp shooting, had all the guys give her funny looks, and proceeded to wip most of them. She shoots at the highest level in South Africa and regularly wins competitions.

[Kagemusha]

You guys should read about the Soviet female snipers in WWII and then reconsider again if women are able to pull the trigger just as well men,here is for example some data of Lyudmila Pavlichenko who had 309 confirmed kills in WWII.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyudmila_Pavlichenko

[Tiwaz]

You guys should read about the Soviet female snipers in WWII and then reconsider again if women are able to pull the trigger just as well men,here is for example some data of Lyudmila Pavlichenko who had 309 confirmed kills in WWII.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyudmila_Pavlichenko

And still males surpassed her on her own time.

It is not question of females can become great snipers, but if they could become (if we determine killcount to be defining factor) BEST snipers in the world.

Bit like 100m sprint. Women can become incredible runners but their world record times are still behind men.

[Kagemusha]

And still males surpassed her on her own time.

It is not question of females can become great snipers, but if they could become (if we determine killcount to be defining factor) BEST snipers in the world.

Bit like 100m sprint. Women can become incredible runners but their world record times are still behind men.

Here is a list of most succesfull snipers in WWII:

Simo Hayha W.W. II Finland 542
Ivan Sidorenko W.W. II U.S.S.R. 500
Nikolay Yakovlevich Ilyin W.W. II U.S.S.R. 496
Kulbertinov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 487
V. N. Pchelintsev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 456
Mikhail Budenkov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 437
Fyodor Matveevich Okhlopkov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 429
Fyodor Djachenko W.W. II U.S.S.R. 425
Vasilij Ivanovich Golosov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 422
Afanasy Gordienko W.W. II U.S.S.R. 417
Stepan Petrenko W.W. II U.S.S.R. 412
Sulo Kolkka W.W. II Finland 400+
Erwin Konig W.W. II Germany 400
Vasili Zaitsev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 400
Semen D. Nomokonov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 367
Abdukhani Idrisov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 349
Philipp Yakovlevich Rubaho W.W. II U.S.S.R. 346
Matthäus Hetzenauer W.W. II Germany 345
Victor Ivanovich Medvedev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 331
E. Nicolaev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 324
Leonid Yakovlevich Butkevich W.W. II U.S.S.R. 315
Nikolai Ilyin W.W. II U.S.S.R. 315
Lyudmila M. Pavlichenko (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 309
Alexander Pavlovich Lebedev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 307
Ivan Pavlovich Gorelikov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 305
Ivan Petrovich Antonov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 302
Heinz Thorvald W.W. II Germany 300
Gennadij Iosifovich Velichko W.W. II U.S.S.R. 300
Moisej Timofeyevich Usik W.W. II U.S.S.R. 300
Nataly V. Kovshova &
Maria Polivanova (Female team) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 300
Ivan Filippovich Abdulov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 298
Yakov Mikhajlovich Smetnev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 279
Liba Rugova W.W. II U.S.S.R. 274
Anatolij Chekhov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 265
Zhambyl Evscheyevich Tulaev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 262
Sepp Allerberger W.W. II Germany 257
Fyodor Kuzmich Chegodaev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 250
Ivan Ivanovich Bocharov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 248
Mikhail Ignatievich Belousov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 245
Maxim Passar W.W. II U.S.S.R. 237
David Teboevich Doev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 226
Vasilij Shalvovich Kvachantiradze W.W. II U.S.S.R. 215
Bruno Sutkus W.W. II Germany 209
Mikhail Stepanovich Sokhin W.W. II U.S.S.R. 202
Noj Petrovich Adamia W.W. II U.S.S.R. 200
M.A. Abbasov W.W.II U.S.S.R. 200
Gefreiter Meyer W.W. II Germany 180
Yekaterina Zuranova W.W. II U.S.S.R. 155
Vladimir Ptchelinzev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 152
Inna Semyonovna Mudretsova (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 143
Feodosy Smeljachkov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 125
I. Merkulov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 125
H. Andruhaev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 125
Oleh Dir W.W. II Germany 120
Tatiana Igantovna Kostyrina(F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 120
N.P. Petrova (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 107
V. N. Pchelintsev W.W. II U.S.S.R. 102
Yelizaveta Mironova (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R 100+
Aliya Moldagulova (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 91
Nina Lobkovskaya (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 89
Lidiya Gudovantseva (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 76
Helmut Wirnsberger W.W. II Germany 64
Alexandra Shlyakhova (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 63
P. Grjaznov W.W. II U.S.S.R. 57
Roza Shanina (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 54
A.P.Medvedeva-Nazarkina (F) W.W. II U.S.S.R. 43
Marie Ljalková (F) W.W. II Czech Army 30
James Bedford MacArthur W.W. II Canada 9

I agree that females cant hardly beat men in Sports. But Sniper isnt a pro athlete.If you generalize that women are inheritently worse shooters,or doesnt have the mentality required for sniper.Maybe also we could look at that chart and decide that Americans are inheritly worse snipers then Europeans becouse there are none on the list of most succesfull WWII snipers? Or should we say that Russian women are better snipers then American males,since there are plenty of Russian women in that list. Generalisations should be avoided when ever possibly,simply becouse those are generalisations.