a few Questions

[Ronin1985]

Damn i really like this Mod it gives the greek site the abillity to conquer the world but i have a few questions

1. could you make more hoplit style units? i prefer to fight with hoplites over the phalanx it would be a dream when you could make the same spartan phalanx unit just in the hoplit style

2.How effctive is the shieldwall from the normal hopit unit? i fought with them against a thracian phalangs and lost

3.Why do all neighbours attack me?

4.i never had the option to build the corinthian hypaspists

5.Why can a low cost full stack thracian army inflect such losses in my halfstacked heavy army?

[Kara Kolyo]

Hm about N 3 - it's RTW, all your neighbours will attack you at some point, it's Backstabbing Total War.
4 you need the highest barracks to train sacred band in Corinth
5 because they have armour piercing abillity. the thracians have low defence though, especially vulnerable to missiles

[Ronin1985]

sure all attacked me in RTW but i think it's harder in the Mod coz i had war with the tracians and the selucd coz of the province in asia minor. the problem with the tracians was that the besieged the towns to long i easily could kick their butts when the tried to get in. But they send every trun a army i hadn't time to reorganize the army. And then i send a army consists of 8 hoplits and 2 athenian marine archers there were slaughered by tracian phalanx.

[RedFox]

Well now, ain't that the idea of the phalanx? That's why you must have phalangites - because every other greek faction HAS them. The one who doesnt use them, or who doesn't have cavalry, will loose against them.

Even a roman faction will have a hard time fighting against a good seleucid silvershield stack...

[Ronin1985]

maybe you are right, i prefered teh hoplits coz in Vanilla RTW the phalanx was pretty useless in a offensive fight.

how good are the milita phalanx in comparison with hte tracian phalangites?

[Cymera]

Stock on archers, skirmishers, and Thracian mercs, use their advantages and weaknesses against them, a well organized, balanced army can easily defeat the Thracians.

[starXdiaMoo]

Well, I don't play BI so I couldn't use the shieldwall formation, thus I changed all hoplite skeletons to become spermen and fight in phalanx. Now about the Thracians, the best way to defeat them (I have a loooooong experience with these guys, believe me) is to have some phalangites and line them up near a corner of the map. By the time they will arrive they will already be very tired/exhausted and will throw themselves on your spearpoints untill they start routing. The only slight problem may be the peltasts or Thracian cavalry who will thin out your lines, so the better equipped your phalangites are, the less casualties you will substain!

[RedFox]

Though such style of battling is quite cheap IMO and ruins the whole idea of gameplay. I never deploy too close to corners of the map, though sometimes the best terrain is only there...

[starXdiaMoo]

Though such style of battling is quite cheap IMO and ruins the whole idea of gameplay. I never deploy too close to corners of the map, though sometimes the best terrain is only there...

I know, it is something I kinda hate to do, but it's the only way to defeat the Thracians easily, as unit cost is quite high. Also, the Greeks are (economical and military) weak in the beginning of the game so you should spare as much denarii as you can. Another good strategy is if you have a big economical problem, to force the independent Greeks to give you some regions in Asia Minor (especially Alikarnassos-*cough*...Mausoleum...*cough*). But this of course spoils all the fun

[RedFox]

I disagree on that though, greeks have very formidable phalanxes right from the beginning and you can keep 3 elite stacks around greece at all times, thracians die like mad against the pikes though

[Cymera]

Javelins people! Javelins! Stretch out a couple of phalanx lines across the battlefield and have a couple Javelins or heavy Javelins behind OR ready to flank. Thracians have low defense, so AP Javelins are DEADLY against them, this strategy is cost effective and efficient, although i prefer Archer Auxillia

[Ronin1985]

OK guys i tried the phalanx in a new game and i worked.I really worked hard to get the spartan phalanx and asi builed a army consist of 4 spartan phalanxes 2 hypaspists 3 archerss and 3 cavs i sendet them against thrac coz they conquered a city from me. Here comes teh shocking moment in the battel was a 80 tracian men phalanx against my 120 men and my spartans lost!!!! how can that happen? they have better stats as the tracian but get slaugthered by them

[Cymera]

you need to learn to use the units, this can't be unless you are utterly wasting them. It just does not happen unless you let them get flanked and slaughtered.

[Ronin1985]

i thnk i know how to use a phalanx,i played alot with my phalangites and won but the spartans get slaughtered in a frontal assault against a weaker tracian pahalangites

[Cymera]

Spartan Royal Guard, or Spartan Phalangites? The Royal Guard is a hoplite unit, as such has a shorter stabbing range then any Phalangites, so that may be why. Nevertheless, frontal assaults are a waste with Spartan Royal Guards, they are vulnerable this way, flank the enemy if you want to see real success.

[Ronin1985]

It was Spartan phalangites, but now i know why they got slaughtered coz they didnt used the spears they used the swords

[RedFox]

Dear god,
You really need to read Sun Tzu's "Art of War", google it and you should learn a lot about warfare, most of it generally applies to RTW.
Here are a few pointers though:
- Tired men are less effective, they do less damage and die faster.
- Uphill phalanx beats downhill phalanx, bigger mass/push and stronger attack.
- Attacking a phalanx from the front with anything is suicide, use an "expendable" unit to attack the phalangites from front and then cavalry to charge into the REAR of the phalanx, it should be a short battle.

That's the basics, you have to make sure you know what's happening during the battle, I have found that really intense battles often require the pause button, I recommend that you use it to have a proper overview of what is happening on the battlefield.
BTW, Spartan Phalangites is the third best phalanx in the game, run some tests in custom battles... they should proove my point.

Cheers

[DimeBagHo]

You have to be careful when taking your phalanx off guard mode, or when you order it to attack another phalanx. If the other phalanx holds up, your own phalanx can rapidly become disorganised.

If you have elite phalangites up against levy phalangites then it's probably safe enough to take them off guard mode and let them rip the enemy phalanx apart. But if your phalanx and the enemy phalanx are of comparable ability then the best approach is to pin and hold with guard mode on, while other units do the damage.

Flanking isn't always the best way to do this though. If your cavalry is outclassed, or you are up against an army that has good non-phalanx units on the flanks (as the Thracians often do) then another approach is to go defensive on the flanks, put your good cavalry or non-phalanx infantry in the center behind your phalanx, and then try to open a hole in the center for them to charge through.

[Ronin1985]

@ redfox do you really think i'm so dumb that i don't know that?
the fact is that my phalangites were 120 and the tracian 80, they doesn't walked a bit excepts the last meters for the assault i let the enemy came closer to me.
I know how to deal with phalanges i was just wondering why the spartan phalanges get slaugthered by a second class phalanges


Dimebagho thanks for the advise, my tactic is that i use the phalanges as a wall with archers and javelin units in the rear and hypaspists on the flanks

[RedFox]

Sorry, I did not mean to offend you, I often evaluate other's intelligence by their grammar and should've not done that.
I ran a few tests and the Spartan Phalangites rip Thracians to shreds, only loosing about 13 men against another phalanx. Are you sure you weren't against anything else like Thracian Thorakitai? I have found that they make minced meat out of my Hypaspists, but missiles help against them...
Maybe you were going uphill and your troops were tired, or even worse - they were flanked. There's no way a Spartan Phalangite can get ripped to shreds by a lower class phalangite, except if they were coming downhill at you, which would explain quite a bit. ( or the silliest thing of all - you didn't use phalanx formation?)

By the way, whenever your phalanx is getting breached, hitting the backspace (they lower the spears and stop) will help you get back in formation, though you have to change from guard mode to aggressive to get them back into the fight again.