The Executive shall create within the Forum a place for all Citizens of the Site to discuss and propose Decisions that affect the governing of the Site and Site Policy, and also to amend this document. This place shall be known as the Curia and shall be a place for an exchange of ideas. As the Curia is considered the heartland of the Citizens right to influence their community, infractions of Forum Rules and the Terms of Service made in this forum are considered to be doubly serious.
The Curia is broken into distinct sections.
The Curia - For general discussion of governance matters. Polls are not permitted within the main Curia.
The Prothalamus - An area specifically for the proposal and discussion of legislation and decisions. Polls are not permitted within the Prothalamus
Curia Vote - An area strictly used only for voting on matters that bind the Curia
The Tabularum - A record chamber and archive.
Consilium de Civitate - A special council chamber visible only to those elected members of the council as defined in Article 5
Additional areas may be added at the discretion of the Citizens following an appropriate Decision being passed.
When the Curia is required to elect an Officer or Rank, or ratify an appoint, the following process shall be applied.
When a member has been duly appointed as a Staff Officer, and where required, ratified by his branch, the Speaker of the House shall post a poll in the Curia Votes forum. The Speaker shall state which position the member has been appointed to, and that they have been ratified by their colleagues if appropriate. The vote shall last for one week, and the member shall be ratified if they receive a simple majority of non abstaining votes.
When a Curial Election is required, the Curator shall open a qualification thread in the Curia and the Speaker of the House shall post an announcement in any relevant forum. Applicants for the vacant position must post their reasons for wishing to hold the position and any relevant qualifications in the qualification thread. Any comments, debates or off topic posting shall be deleted. The thread shall remain open for no longer than one week.
The Council may veto applicants, and should more than six members apply for any position, may shortlist six members to stand for the election. Once applications are complete, the Curator shall open a poll in the Curia Vote. The vote shall last for one week, and the member who receives the plurality of votes shall be elected.
Where more than one of the same position is vacant, the procedure is the same, and the members with the highest votes are elected. In the case of ties, a run off vote is held between the tied members lasting 3 days.
Where the vacant position is that of Curator, the Speaker of the House shall undertake the Curator's duties in relation to the vote.
At any time, any Citizen of this site may initiate a vote of No Confidence in any in any Officer of the Council or Member of the Consilium de Civitate for inactivity or abuse of duty by posting their case within the Curia. Frivolous use of this procedure may result in disciplinary proceedings. In all cases, a vote of No Confidence is exempt from veto, however the vote is non binding except on the Speaker of the House. A debate and vote on No Confidence shall follow the same procedure as that of a bill as per Article 3 below, but shall be conducted in the Curia Main, and not the Prothalamus.
Any Citizen may post a bill in the Prothalamus for discussion. Bills can take two forms.
Amendments - A proposal to alter the text of the Constitution. Amendments can alter or remove existing text and add entirely new text.
Decisions - A proposal for the creation of an official Decision of the Curia on a topic relevant to the functioning of TWC. The Curia has authority to direct the Officers of TWC in this way on any topic of which the primary say has been delegated from the Officers, who shall take such Curial Decisions under strong advisement. The Speaker of the House shall determine if proposed Decisions fall within the jurisdiction of the Curia.
The procedure for proposing and voting on either bill is the same. Each version of the bill requires named support from at least three Patricians and must be debated for at least three days in the prothalamus before the proposer can request the bill be moved to vote. If, after three days the debate is still active, the Curator may delay moving the bill to vote after one month. A delay of longer than a month is at the Curators discretion only upon at least three patricians requesting more time for debate.
When a bill is moved to vote, the debate thread is left open, and the Curator shall post the newest draft of the bill, the name of the proposer, the name of the bills three named supporters, and a link to the debate, as a new poll in the Curia Votes forum. All bills shall be voted on for one week. Subsequent posts in this thread, are limited to notification of having voted. Messages lobbying to vote for or against, including via Signatures and Avatars, are prohibited except in the original debate thread. All bills shall pass on the basis of a two-thirds majority of non abstaining votes in favour. If any bill fails a vote, no re-vote on a substantially similar bill will be permitted within twenty-eight days.
All citizens are honour bound to not view the results of Curia Votes until they have themselves voted, unless necessary for the execution of any other duty to the site.
Upon passing a vote:
The Curator shall post the text of all passed amendments in a stickied "Amendments" thread in the Tabularum and numbered consecutively in the order they pass. The poll is closed, moved to the Tabularum, and renamed to reflect the whether it passed or failed, and the numbers of votes. The sticked "Constitution" thread in the Curia is then edited to reflect the changes made by passed amendments. When a Section or Article is added or removed, all subsequent Sections and Articles are renumbered by the Curator appropriately.
The Curator shall post the text of all passed Decisions in a sticked "Decisions" thread in the Tabularum and consecutively in the order they pass. The poll is closed, moved to the Tabularum, and renamed to reflect the whether it passed or failed, and the numbers of votes.
All Amendments and Decisions are considered to have immediate effect and no retroactive effect unless specifically stated otherwise.
At any time, a member of the Council can establish a Curial Committee to investigate and discuss an issue. These temporary committees are to last one month, and after one month, are subject to ratification and extension by the Curia.
To form a committee, the Speaker of the House will create a thread in the Curia asking for applicants. When the Council decides it has enough applicants, it will choose however many it deems fit, and create a subforum in the Curia for the Committee. The temporary committee can be dissolved at the discretion of the Council. It can also add and remove members when it sees fit. Each committee shall also contain a Council Officer as Chairman and the Speaker of the House.
After thirty days, the Speaker can create a vote for a one or two month extension, following the vote procedure in Article 3 above.
After a Decision is made by a temporary committee, it shall be posted in the Prothalamos for three days, prior to implementation. If three or more Patricians state an objection, implementation will be postponed. It will be at the discretion of the Curator, Committee, and Committee Chairman whether to take the proposal back to the committee for revision (the objecting Patricians are therefore expected to take part in the revision discussion), or continue the discussion in the Prothalamos until there are no more than two objections.
The Consilium de Civitate (CdeC) manages the granting and removal of all Curial Ranks by voting. The CdeC may also function as an advisory body to the staff of TWC in matters concerning the Curia and its Citizens.
The elected members of the CdeC are all Patricians. The full membership comprises of:
Sixteen elected Patricians, who may discuss and vote on all matters within the CdeC Forum
Council Officers, who may discuss all matters within the CdeC Forum, but have no vote.
The Curator, who may take part in all CdeC discussions, and has the deciding vote only in the case of a tie. The Curator has veto powers over any CdeC decision.
Elected members of the CdeC and the Curator must actively participate in discussions and votes, Council Officers partipation is optional.
CdeC members are elected as per Article 2 of this Section - with the added requirement that candidates hold the basic rank of Patrician and have no Staff warnings at the time of election. Each elected CdeC member has a term of three months starting from their date of election. When their term expires, new elections will be held for membership to the CdeC.
If a member of the CdeC resigns during their term, or if during elections less than sixteen eligible Patricians apply in the candidates thread, the vacant positions may be filled by a volunteering Staff Officer with at last Citizen rank until appropriate Patricians can be found to stand for election.
A CdeC member may resign from office, or can be removed from office by a majority vote of the elected councillors, such a vote being triggered by any of the following:
A successful vote of no confidence by the Curia
Incurring an infraction of any level;
Being subject to proceedings laid out in Section 4 Article 1
Prolonged inactivity, as decided by a simple majority vote in the CdeC
All member of the Forums can be divided into the following Ranks. Each Rank confers on the holders a specific set of rights and privileges unavailable to other Ranks unless explicitly stated.
There are two broad categories of Ranks, Normal Ranks and Honorary Ranks. A member, in addition to his normal Rank, may also hold any number of honorary Ranks, as well as an Officer's position. In this case he may choose which Rank he is displayed under. Regardless of the Rank listed next to his name, he retains all the rights and privileges associated with all his ranks.
The Rank of Peregrinus is conferred automatically with registration to the TWC Forums. It confers posting rights in the General Fora. Any Peregrinus has the right to ask questions and suggest changes in the "Questions and Suggestions" Forum.
Contributing members of TWC have the opportunity to become a Citizen of the Forum as per Article 3 below. Once a member becomes a Citizen, they can then choose between 3 different badges. Artifex, designed for those who are modders, Civitates, designed for those who have contributed to the debating side of the Site, whether in TW or CC, and Citizen, for those who associate with both.
To qualify for Citizenship, a member must have at least fifty posts, been a registered member for one month, and have no warnings within the last six months.
All Citizens have the rights associated with Peregrinus, but in addition may post within the Curia, subject to the procedures in Section 2; may post with the Symposium and may patronise other members as per Article 3
Patricians are those Citizens who have continued to excell in their position within the forum by contributing to a greater extent than their citizenship requires.
A Citizen may be nominated to this rank by another Patrician in accordance with Article 4 below. Patricianship is awarded by the Consilium de Civitate for significant contribution to TWC (Appendix A). None of these contributions provide automatic promotion, but instead allow for nomination. The nominee must also have been a Citizen for at least one month and have no warnings at the time of their election.
A Patrician has all the rights of a Citizen, and in addition becomes eligible to be considered for higher office. Patricians are also required sponsors of Bills.
To qualify as an Opifex, the nominee must have served the Total War Centre or Total War Community with exceptional input to any of the boards or mods in any capacity other than that of a Staff Officer. A member of any Rank is eligible to become an Opifex, but must also meet the criteria to become a Citizen. His nomination must also be seconded by an elected member of the Consilium de Civitate.
Qualifying nominees shall have their nomination posted in the Prothalamus and will be moved to vote as per the procedure in Section 2 Article 3. Once moved to they shall be voted upon for a period of one week and require a two-third majority of non-abstaining votes to achieve the Rank. If the nominee was not already a citizen, this Rank shall also be conferred upon them if they pass. A nominee who fails to pass his vote is not eligiable to re-nominated until three months have passed.
To achieve apotheosis and Curial vote, the nominee must be supported by twelve elected members of the Consilium de Civitate. The nominee must have served as a Council Officer (or previous equivalents), made a clear and distinquished contribution to the community and provided exceptional service to TWC in their capacity as an administrator. They cannot be nominated within three months of resigning their Officer Position.
Any Citizen can nominate a former Council Officer and does so by PMing a CdeC member. The CdeC will contact the nominee and ask if he or she will accept the nomination. If the nominee should decline, or fails to respond within one month, no further action need be taken and the nomination declared null and void.
If the nominee should accept, the CdeC will create a thread within the CdeC Forum to investigate the legitimacy of the nominee’s accolades. The CdeC has the right to request any and all relevant material from the Staff Officers to ascertain this, with the approval of the Council. The CdeC will discuss the nominee and his qualifications for at least a week before the vote is held.
Should the nominee receive the support of twelve CdeC members, the Curator shall create a discussion in the prothalamus lasting at least three days and then move the nomination to vote as per the procedure in Section 2 Article 3. The vote shall last one week and the nominee shall require a two-third majority of non-abstaining votes to become Divus. A nominee who fails the vote is not eligible to be nominated again for a six month period.
Any Citizen holding their rank for three months can patronise a Peregrinus for citizenship subject to the requirements in Article 1 above. The process of patronisation is as follows.
The patron confirms the candidate meets the requirements, OR a candidate meeting the requirements contacts a Citizen asking for patronage.
The nominee sends the patron a PM explaining his duties and privileges as a Citizen, and his contributions to the community. The patron forwards this paragraph, along with his own, outlining why he nominated this member, to a CdeC member.
The CdeC member opens a thread in the CdeC Forum and the proposed nominee is discussed and voted upon.
If the nominee achieves sixty per cent of the non-abstaining votes, he becomes a Citizen.
The Speaker of the House promotes the member to Citizen, with a Citizen badge, and contacts him as to whether he would like to remain a Citizen, or further self define as an Artifex or Civitate.
If a nominee fails his vote, he is not eligible to be considered again for one month. Members of the CdeC must abstain from voting on members they patronise. All CdeC votes must be concluded within seven days of the thread being opened in the CdeC.
A Citizen is nominated by an existing Patrician, who PMs a CdeC member to commence the nomination procedure. Points 3 and 4 of Article 3 are then followed.
A Curial Officer is a Citizen who has been given a mandate to administer a project or instutition at TWC. It shall only apply to chairpersons or project leaders/managers, and not general or day-today staff of the project. Curial Officers shall be given by the Speaker appropriate local moderator privileges to carry out their duties
A Curial Officer shall be elected by the procedure in Section 2 Article 2, with the addition that the Curator shall post the mandate for the job in the Qualfications thread.
A Curial Officer shall hold his office for a period of three months from the day they are elected. In the event an office is vacant, its duties shall be assumed by the Curator until an officer is elected. if the office of Curator is vacant, the duties shall be assumed by the Speaker of the House.
If, in the judgement of the Council, an Officer has neglected their duties or abused his position, the Speaker may dismiss the Officer, and ask the Curator to arrange new elections.
The following are permanent Curial Officers:
The Curator - responsible for the day to day administration of the Curia, including but not limited to any tasks outlined in this document and any duties he may be given in the Curia by the Speaker of the House. Only Patricians may hold this Office.
Modding Registrar - The Registrar shall be responsible for maintaining the Modding Registry, answering questions about the registry and resolving disputes between members concerning the registry in a fair and impartial manner.
The TWC Wiki Editor - Answering to the Chief of Content, is in charge of overseeing the Wiki Project.
Further Permanent Officers may be created by amendment. Any member of Citizen rank may apply unless otherwise stated.
Non Permanent Curial Officers may be created to oversee specific short term Curial Projects not covered by Curial Committees. They may be created by a Curial Decision and cease to exist upon the completion of the project.
The suspention and removal of a Normal Rank is handled by the CdeC via the following disciplinary process. No Citizen may be subject to more than one process for a single offence.
Any member of TWC may report a Citizen to a member of the CdeC for behavior unbecoming of a Citizen. The accuser is asked to present a written charge to the CdeC, who will then ask the accused to produce a defence within seventy two hours. The accused can be shown the charge, but not the name of the accuser. The CdeC then has a further seventy two hours to investigate. After the investigation the CdeC will hold a vote to decide whether the accused should lose his highest Normal Rank. This action requires seventy five per cent of non abstaining votes.
If the first vote fails, a second vote is automatically held to determine whether the accuser should have their rank suspended for two months for reckless use of this procedure. This second vote operates in the same manner as the first but lasts only twenty four hours.
If any Citizen recieves a staff warning from an Officer of the Moderation Branch their case will be referred to the CdeC by the Chief of Branch or the Speaker of the House. A vote will be held after two days discussion of the case. All relevant user notes of the accused will be made available to the CdeC, the accused is allowed no defence. The vote concludes within seven days. The options are
A warning level of one - a poll for suspention of rank for up to two months
A warning level of two - a poll for a suspention of rank for two months or a permanent loss of rank
A simple majority of non abstaining members is required for the vote to pass.
If the warning that formed the basis of this referral is subsequently overturned by the Tribunal, the Citizens Rank is restored
Normal Rank may not be removed except by the procedure outlined in this Article. Honorary rank may not be removed by this procedure. Senatorii and Officer Emeritus may only be removed by the Council at their discretion. Divus and Opifex may only be removed by a Decision of the Curia.
To defend the democracy and freedom of TWC, and to ensure fair and just punishment towards those who violate the laws of TWC, a Tribunal shall be established
The purpose of the Tribunal is to provide those members of TWC who have been punished in the past by the Moderation Branch a place to request the reversal of their punishment. This is in no way a guarantee that the punishment will be removed, but every case presented will be reviewed by a panel of three judges.
Members may create a thread in the Tribunal Forum with the Case Number and the name of the appealling member. The Judges will study the case details in a private sub forum, and may request any additional information on the member from the Senior Moderators. The Judges will then post the majority decision in the original thread, and ask the Chief Moderator to remove any warnings if so required. The Judges are not tasked to decide the appropriateness or validity of a Forum Rule of Term of Service, and may only rule on whether the Term was correctly enforced and the punishment suitable for the offence.
To serve on the Tribunal, a panel of three Judges is elected by the Curia, using the procedure outlined in Section 2 Article 2, from among the Senatorii. In addition to having the rank of Senatorii, a Judge must also have no staff warnings and cannot hold a Staff Officer position. Each Judge serves a three month term. The Judges are granted local moderator privileges in the Tribunal. A Judge may resign his post, and will be removed summarily under any one of the following conditions:
Becoming a member of the Moderating Staff as per Section 1 Article 3;
Incurring an infraction of any level;
or being subject to proceedings laid out in Section 4 Article 1
All Citizens of TWC have access to the Symposium forum. This forum exists as a general meeting place for both old and new Citizens of the Total War Centre Forums. Within the Symposium, rules are generally more relaxed so as to allow for more concentrated debates to take place. Breach of the Terms of Service shall still be dealt with accordingly in this forum.
A “Medal” can be awarded to any member who has in some way contributed and achieved something which was of benefit to the wider community. Medals are controlled and run by the Curia. The qualifications and procedure by which each medal is awarded to a user can vary according to the wishes of the Curia. In order for a medal to be created it must acquire the majority in accordance with the Legislation section of the Syntagma. Every Curia approved medal is to be listed in the appropriate section below along with its Qualifications.
In order for a member to qualify they must have served as a member of the CdC for at least two terms within one year. The Senatorial robe is awarded instantly when a member of CdC completes his second term.
Members of any rank are awarded this medal by means of a Curia vote and simple majority for outstanding contributions to the common community. The member must be nominated and a case brought forward in the Prothalamos like any other proposal.
Gold Silver and Bronze maces awarded for over one years, 6-12 months, and 3-6 months service respectively as a Staff Moderator - see Section 1 Article 5
Gold Silver and Bronze quills awarded for over one years, 6-12 months, and 3-6 months service respectively as a Content Staff Officer - see Section 1 Article 5
Gold Silver and Bronze screwdrivers awarded for over a years, 6-12 months, and 3-6 months service respectively as a Staff Technician - see Section 1 Article 5
Local Moderator
1. Technical Help Center
2. The Basement
3. The Mod Workshop
4. Coliseum
5. Foreign Language Discussion
Staff Officer
Member of a Curial Committee
Curial Officer
Total War Contributions
1. Modding Tutorials
2. Modding Tools
3. Open Source Modifications
Common Community Contributions
1. Articles on History, Religion, Politics, Science, Art, etc.
2. Gaming Reviews in the Circus Maximus
3. Hosting Contests in the Coliseum
4. Significant contributions to the Suggestus Forum
Contribution to the Total War Community
1. Repeated contributions of content such as articles, strategies and other general helpful information
Any other contribution, as Defined by the Council and CdeC, meriting consideration for Patricianship
edit 1 - Moved the element - Removal from Office - to the CDC section as it should have been.
edit 2 - Changed references from Section 4 Article 3 to Section 4 Article 1. This was done in the following parts - Section 2 Article 5 subsection 3 and Section 4 Article 3
edit 3 - Changed Section 2 Article 5 Subsection 3, first item on list to Incurring an infraction of any level. Also applied to s4a3
edit 5 - Changed the Medals (Section 5) to reflect what was voted on very recently.
edit 6 - redrafted Section 2 Article 5 Subsection 3 to Tac's version. Redrafted the moderator's awards section to make it fit in with the previous drafting recently voted in.
edit 7 - added a self propoal clause to gain citizenship, as indicated in my final proposal in the Curia Main.
edit 8 - removed edit 7....
edit 9 - removed edit 5... Can everyone now leave me alone?
Last edited by imb39; February 22, 2007 at 04:53 PM.
i wrote this myself, but no longer support with the inclusion of a paragraph Removal from office that's randomly floating at the bottom of Section 2
i disagree absolutely
firstly, form, you've got fieldsets mixed up, so the section you've added isn't included in any Article...
plus, what you've written makes no actual sense.
the Curia can't vote no confidence in a CdeC member, because they have nothing to base any such vote on. they don't know what's go in the CdeC, and presenting evidence of such could compromise that secrecy.
second, the phrase be recalled to office makes no sense
The phrase recalled to office is also not included anywhere within the document. Furthermore the fieldset error is mine, for which I apologise and I have asked Ian to put right. Effectively that's form rather than substance; if you wish to withdraw support on the basis of form, fine, but please, its better to announce such without so combatative a style.
And if the Curia decides someone is not competant on the basis of their behaviour or public statements to vote on citizens (eg if I said modders don't deserve to enter the Curia, to take something entirely impossible) then they need the right to express that in a vote of no confidence.
Last edited by Ozymandias; February 18, 2007 at 02:28 PM.
A CdeC member may resign his post at any point during his term, may be recalled by a vote of no confidence as per Section 2 Article 2 with the exception that such a vote is binding, and must be summarily removed from the membership of the body if any of the following conditions occurs;
* Incurring any form of infraction for any crime;
* Being subject to Citizien's Behaviour Articles proceedings as per Section 4 Article 3
* Prolonged inactivity, as decided by a simple majority vote in the CdeC
firstly, thats all one sentence! which is terrible
second, the phrase be recalled by vote of no confidence makes no sense on an ordinary interpretation of it. be recalled where? from where? to where?
third, the previous paragraphs, taken from the original, specifically say that a candidate for CdeC must have no warnings at the time of election.
a normal reading of that would surely state that its therefore ok for them to have warnings at other times.
a vote on prolonged activity is unnecessary and wastes more time. The Curator should simply fire councillors who don't fulfill the requirement of active participation.
The one-sentence thing is irrrelevant; its listing a condition-set, best done in one sentence, especially when part of that sentence is broken up into a list.
Furthermore recalled is pretty damned clear in its meaning of recalled from the position, especially given the context of it.
Third, it does not imply it, since it is conditions for election, not anything about continuation; you read too much into a sentence, in the end, that does not exist within it by any normal reading, which would simply be, especially in context, that it is a condition of entry, and has no bearing on continuation; if anything I'd say it directly contradicts your claim and interpretation.
Finally, I do not think that such an important democratic role as CdeC member should be kept at the whim of the Curator, who can make the excuse of inactivity to fire any member at will, in a manner beyond reason for the institution; basically, sir, your idea leads to the Curator getting carte blanche to fire CdeCers at will.
no, he would only be able to fire them for lack of active participation, and the Curator is democratically elected too
you don't need to mention that a CdeC member can resign, thats already mentioned in the paragraph above and really goes without saying anyway.
recalled means to summon back.
a CdeC member may be summoned back by a vote of no confidence?
summoned back where? to the CdeC? to the moon?
i reiterate, that the Curia cannot subject a CdeC member to a vote of no confidence anyway because they have nothing to base any such vote on. they don't know what's go in the CdeC, and presenting evidence of such could compromise that secrecy. How is the average Curia member going to know if a CdeC member is doing his job or not? its an absurd idea
i could be persuaded to go along with the idea of a CdeC member being summarily removed if he received a staff warning if the rest of this rubbish was removed. but who is doing the removing? the CdeC is a curial office, not a staff one, so guess what, it would be the Curator...
of your list items, incurring an infraction for a crime?
we have no crimes here... we have no criminal code either. phrase it in appropriate language.
and the second item reads easier when it simply says, is subject to proceedings under Section 4 article 1
unless of course you did mean for it to say Section 4 article 3, in which case the whole thing makes no sense whatsoever, since S4A3 is the criteria for being a tribunal judge.
the whole paragraph would be better reading
A CdeC member may resign from office, or can be summarily removed from office for recieving a staff warning, being successfully subjected to proceedings under Section 4 Article 1 or for failing to actively participate.
two lines that are a hell of a lot simpler and easier to understand.
no, he would only be able to fire them for lack of active participation, and the Curator is democratically elected too
And the Curator could say that x does not post enough despite voting in all votes and is therefore inactive, he goes. Or y is not active enough, he doesn't vote in all votes, despite leaving z in place, who votes in fewer. Democratisation.
you don't need to mention that a CdeC member can resign, thats already mentioned in the paragraph above and really goes without saying anyway.
Superfluity is not neccessarily a bad thing; given that the section is abuot removal of rank it needs to be all-inclusive.
recalled means to summon back.
a CdeC member may be summoned back by a vote of no confidence?
summoned back where? to the CdeC? to the moon?
Back to the Curia main, rather than to the CdeC, maybe? Have you never heard of recalls in the context of elections and posts? Surprising...
i reiterate, that the Curia cannot subject a CdeC member to a vote of no confidence anyway because they have nothing to base any such vote on. they don't know what's go in the CdeC, and presenting evidence of such could compromise that secrecy. How is the average Curia member going to know if a CdeC member is doing his job or not? its an absurd idea
I reiterate, if I say something which demonstrates I am not performing my duty appropriately then I should be subject to Curial approbation; simple as that, in the end. It is evidence in and of itself.
i could be persuaded to go along with the idea of a CdeC member being summarily removed if he received a staff warning if the rest of this rubbish was removed. but who is doing the removing? the CdeC is a curial office, not a staff one, so guess what, it would be the Curator...
Does that matter? I do not see your point at all.
of your list items, incurring an infraction for a crime?
we have no crimes here... we have no criminal code either. phrase it in appropriate language.
I would disagree; a crime is perfectly appropriate terminology given the meaning thereof, which is not specifically limited to a penal or criminal code.
and the second item reads easier when it simply says, is subject to proceedings under Section 4 article 1
unless of course you did mean for it to say Section 4 article 3, in which case the whole thing makes no sense whatsoever, since S4A3 is the criteria for being a tribunal judge.
Should read S4A1, however it was coped from your own bit of S4A3, self referencing... so wherein does blame lie? With you more than me here, I am afraid.
Your sample paragraph basically removes many of the important features of my own, especially the Curial ability to recall and the CdeC vote on inactivity, far better than potentially partisan Curatorial discretion.
i never wrote the paragraph or anything like it, its entirely your creation, so where did my reference to S4A3 come from?
you mean to say that a member is recalled to the Curia? again, wtf???
a CdeC member has never left the Curia to be recalled. Its not like he's a naval office on secondment to NATO being recalled to the navy, its an extra role he's doing. the word makes no sense in the context.
You're saying the Curia will no confidence you for saying something in the Curia which is related to the CdeC? this whole idea makes no sense. at what point is the Curia ever going to be capable of judging whether you are performing your job as a CdeC member correctly when the Curia cannot see the CdeC forum. The Curia is in no position at all to have confidence in your ability to act as a councillor. this kind of thing can only be done internally by the other CdeC members.
as to crime, i have attempted to write a document that is consistent in its terminology, and that terminology is consistent with reality. we don't have any crimes on this forum, or police who enforce them, we have forum rules and terms of service and staff warnings and moderators.
how about this
A CdeC member may resign from office, or can be summarily removed from office for receiving a staff warning or being successfully subjected to proceedings under Section 4 Article 1. He may additionally be removed by a majority vote of the elected Councillors for failing to actively participate.
i refuse, point blank, to ever agree to allowing the Curia to vote no confidence in a CdeC member, as the Curia does not have capacity to make any judgement as to whether a CdeC member is doing his job or not. this can only be done internally
From when you added it into the other Syntagma under the judges from whence I copied it, that's when. Oops, hm?
Then your objection is to a wording which in context is appropriate, despite not literally being so it is used in this sense?
Then maybe the Curia needs to be given more access to the CdeC; a culture of closedness aids no one. If I post
Modders shouldn't get access to the Curia
then the Curia has every right to question my performance as a CdeCer, even without knowledge of my discharge of that duty.
So you would prefer it if we dropped it to simply infractions? Can do. Ian, do the honours please.
You refuse point blank? You can't veto it, sir, and do not imagine that you can. And I don't like your "successfully"; if he is subject to them at all, his status is called into question and that is enough, since they should be held to the highest standard, to discredit him.
the bit in the judge section reads
or being subject to Citizen's Behaviour Articles proceedings as per Section 4 Article 1
You refuse point blank? You can't veto it, sir, and do not imagine that you can. And I don't like your "successfully"; if he is subject to them at all, his status is called into question and that is enough, since they should be held to the highest standard, to discredit him.
its my document, i can request a document i own copyright on be removed if i felt so inclined. but that aside, i think its pretty damning that the person who wrote the document won't vote for it with your absolutely atrocious paragraph attached to it.
the reason i included sucessfully is that the CdeC doesn't hold a vote to decide if a proceeding goes ahead.
if i brought a charge under S4A1 against say, garb, for any reason, he'd be summarily dismissed, even if my charge was baseless, and the CdeC voted both for no action against garb, and voted to suspend me for fivolous use of the proceeding.
someone bringing a proceeding under S4A1 or the current citizens behaviour act is no evidence of any actual misconduct and we cannot punish a CdeC member just because someone's got a grudge.
if you posted something that the Curia felt called into question like you state, then a concerned Citizen can bring a case under S4A1 anyway, that's already covered.
the Curia is in no position to judge how you are performing your role in the CdeC, only CdeC members can do that.
i say again, the paragraph should be replaced simply with the following
A CdeC member may resign from office, or can be summarily removed from office for receiving a staff warning or being successfully subjected to proceedings under Section 4 Article 1. He may additionally be removed by a majority vote of the elected Councillors for failing to actively participate.
Only because I requested Ian change it, and he did with both; false and poor argument.
I don't think so; its hardly damning, really, that the person who wrote a document refuses to make himself subject to the possibility of removal by more means than, well, bugger all, to be honest, sir.
In the case of my posting something intemperate, that only applies if unsuccessful ones go ahead to throw me out too; would the post I suggested make me unfit as a civitate or patrician? No. The case would fail. But under your internally incoherent post, I'd remain in the CdeC.
Furthermore there is a reason we are nt looking at warnings but any form f infraction in all cases, tBP; it is otherwise covered by the loss of status as soon as a proceeding is initiated.
bugger all? have you actually read what i've written?
resignation,
summary removal for staff warning,
proceedings under S4A1
and a vote of no confidence from the council
that's all bugger all is it?
i'll happily change warning to Infraction if it makes you feel better
Resignation pre-existed, warning was common sense and needs changing to infraction, sucessful proceedings not all proceedings despite my arguments to the contrary, and vote of no confidence is something I already argued for which you conceeded. There is no external accountability if we start doing idiotic things eg giving Ferrets54 civitate status (and actually, the very fact the Curia knows who gets status is itself telling the Curia something about our actions as a body).
the Curia is not empowered to decide who gets to become civitates or not. the CdeC is. if someone patronises ferrets, and the 16 of us collectively decide to give it to him, then he is a civitate. not everything and everyone can be accountable to everything else. who are judges accountable to? the final court of appeal... but who are they accountable too? no one.
in terms of citizen promotions, the buck stops with the CdeC.
other than that, we're accountable through elections, every 3 months
so i say agaiin
A CdeC member may resign from office, or can be summarily removed from office for committing an infraction of the Forum Rules or being successfully subjected to proceedings under Section 4 Article 1. He may additionally be removed by a majority vote of the elected Councillors for failing to actively participate.