Ultimate Constantinople

[Oldgamer]

Lusted,

I've been trying out a new hunch concerning the Byzantines, using 2.1, and I wanted to run this by you.

No matter how weak the Byzantine Empire was in 1080, Constantinople was one of the great cities of the world ... very possibly the greatest city in the West. It didn't make sense to me that all of the city buildings would have to be built from scratch, at the start of the game.

Accordingly, I "cheated", when I played as Byzantium, by doing the "add_money" cheat so that I could build everything available at the start of the game. This gave Constantinople about 5200 florins per turn, and made some pretty impressive units availble. But notice that these benefits were only available at the city, an nowhere else.

The effect was that ... and I play on M/VH, because I consider it the most realistic setting ... Constantinople became a very lucrative target for AI factions around it. I found myself constantly having to rebuild a single stack in order to defend against the threats that came against it. Against everything that is intuitive, the empire became harder to hold onto because of continual incursions, and the necessity to hold onto the centre. The other cities/castles are at their beginning capabilities, and that makes the peripheral provinces weak and vulnerable.

For example, I lost Corinth and Cyprus by 1125 against the Venetians and the Turks, respectively. But in the same time period, I smashed several powerful forces that both of those factions, and the Hungarians, sent against the heart of the empire. I'm finally beginning to build a second army in the centre, and I've dispatched Isaac Comnenus to Thessalonica to build a third army there, and take Corinth back.

What I would like to do is to test the game using the Venetians, the Hungarians, or the Turks. However, I don't know how to give Constantinople all of its buildings at the start of a campaign.

Would the empire be weaker, and fall more quickly? Or would it be a more potent force?

Do you think that this idea has some merit? If so, can you tell me how "load up" Constantinople with every building available for construction at the start of a campaign?

[Taneda Santôka]

Go to X:\Program Files\SEGA\Medieval II Total War\landstoconquer\data\world\maps\campaign\imperial_campaign and it's in descr_strat.txt, look for Constantinople and add the desired buildings (Raaagh, Aggia Sofia...). You need to know the correct building "code names" to implement them, but you'll find them somewhere easily... Great idea! I second it since it's also what I usualy do... And when I dont play Biz, I entitle myself "Defender of Konstantinoupoli", against Crusades or Jihads!

[Lusted]

Would the empire be weaker, and fall more quickly? Or would it be a more potent force?

I think it would be weaker. Whilst it could produce better units in Constantinople, it would become the focus of Jihads/Hungary/Venice and it would be a struggle to hold. What might work is giving all the Byzantine settlements a boost, and boost Constantinople on the economic side so it is still a key province. That mgiht make things more interesting as the Byzantines.

[Taneda Santôka]

But isnt it good to have Contantinople as a priority target? It was actually so, many times the Empire was reduced to its core, and adding a garrison script for it (and maybe Rome, Jerusalem,...) will counterbalance that when the AI is in charge.

[ENSAIS]

I second the idea of a much more built up Constantinople. It would be nice if major cities were much developed beyond how they start now (barely able to put out militia troops). Advanced cities and fortresses could pump out decent troops from the start... which for me is interesting.

Just a thought.

[Lusted]

But isnt it good to have Contantinople as a priority target? It was actually so, many times the Empire was reduced to its core, and adding a garrison script for it (and maybe Rome, Jerusalem,...) will counterbalance that when the AI is in charge.

Yeah but having Constantinople as a priority target basically dooms the Byzantines, as without it they're pretty screwed. That is why i would only increase it in its ability to make cash, and also add in a few more buildings to other provinces. So it is still a key province, but not such a big target for the ai/

[zombieseatppl]

Yeah but having Constantinople as a priority target basically dooms the Byzantines, as without it they're pretty screwed. That is why i would only increase it in its ability to make cash, and also add in a few more buildings to other provinces. So it is still a key province, but not such a big target for the ai/

This would actually make it pretty historically accurrate. AS the Baz had been spared the technological decline of the rest of the world when things started coming back together, the medieval period, the Baz were a constant target of the less advanced powers. Like somebody said they were reduced to the capitol on several ocations. The capitol was constantly under seige. It wasn't uncommon for Constantinople to be under siege for the better part of a decade.

Like you said, they were doomed by their own well to do ness.

[Secadegas]

i agree whith a far more developed city of constantinople from the start, and i would like you Lusted to consider about giving them some gunpowder units like handguners and canons for later periods, maybe hirable merc units....

[Space Voyager]

i agree whith a far more developed city of constantinople from the start, and i would like you Lusted to consider about giving them some gunpowder units like handguners and canons for later periods, maybe hirable merc units....

Yes, I was surprised to see that I have virtually no gunpowder except for the basic canon. So I'm cruising the Europe trying to get some mercs... I don't mind really, this is not the only faction with the limitation.

[dutch81]

Maybe all the major cities should be uprgarded a bit with non-military structures to balance out the targets for the AI and to better reflect the actual advancemets of some cities ... it seems that Venice for example should also be far more advanced if only economically over its rivals. This way Venice could be a economic center Jerusalem a religious center etc. etc.

[Queen Annes Revenge]

Constantinople should be more advanced, I agree, and it should be the target of rivals, as it was in this time.
I'm confused about the Byzantines. Shouldn't they get Kataphractoi and other heavily armored units early in the game? Correct me if I'm wrong here but I thought they're supposed to have the heavily armored cavalry as their strength in the outset, but then rivals' technology is supposed to cripple them later. In my campaign they got easily dominated by Venice, Hungary, and the Muslims and had one city left by the early 1100s.

[Queen Annes Revenge]

double post, apparently it posted it when it said it couldn't because i was within the time limit. sorry.

[Taneda Santôka]

That's true Lusted, you objected giving the Byzantine a historically correct starting unit roster as it would unbalance play, but if they are a real juicy target, it gets balanced back, doesn't it? Well, it needs testing
And for all, adding recruitablke merc arquebusiers to the latest city barracks is quite easy, the Empire doesnt really need more, and it sticks to the auxiliary tradition...

[Lusted]

The Byzantines have had their units balanced in this mod so that Kataphraktoi can take on later Catholic cavalry etc. It may not be historical, but well i don't really care about historical accuracy.

[Bobolini]

I also think it matters who you start with in a campaign. I am playing Russia and the Byzantines have been my allies almost from the start. I have concentrated on Central Europe, killing off the Poles and Venice. Hungary has fell to the Byzantines. The Turks and Eygytians were killed off by the Mongols. I am currently at war with the Danes, Siciliy, Portugal, and Spain. I am worried about England as they are the strongest and HRE is their vassal. I have concentrated so much on killing the Danes, Venicians, and the Poles that my Eastern European cities are under developed and the Byzantines could easily attack me and I'm sure now that Hungary is dead they will keep a good watch on me. So, the Byzantines are not weak in my Campaign. They have the 3 rd strongest military behind England and the Mongols (I am 4th). I wouls hate to play Russia if you made them (the Byz's) stronger.

[Secadegas]

Wy do Sicily have gunpowder units in the game ???? they were subdued to Spain long befor the fall of Constantinople in 1453 ( in real life)....and yet they have them.... wy ???? because of gameplay, because if you start a campaing with them you should have a good chance to get to late periods and enter the gunpowder age.
so in my opinion the same thing should be possible to the byzantines... because (in real life)if they got some good emperors(insted of bad ones), there where a very good chance that they adopted gunpowder units...
"all in the name of gameplay"
im all mess d up from the weekend:tacticalw

[zombieseatppl]

Wy do Sicily have gunpowder units in the game ???? they were subdued to Spain long befor the fall of Constantinople in 1453 ( in real life)....and yet they have them.... wy ???? because of gameplay, because if you start a campaing with them you should have a good chance to get to late periods and enter the gunpowder age.
so in my opinion the same thing should be possible to the byzantines... because (in real life)if they got some good emperors(insted of bad ones), there where a very good chance that they adopted gunpowder units...
"all in the name of gameplay"
im all mess d up from the weekend:tacticalw

Well hell I want Scottish powder if that's the case.

The terrible thing is the SCotts actually had powder. They generally could manage to field about half what the English had, and they don't get any either

Though I can honestly say I've never used powder since Shogun even, by the late period of SHogun all my battles were just in the rain and the muskets died just fine all the time.

[Queen Annes Revenge]

well i thought the entire point of playing as the Byzantines was to dominate early but fall behind late. that's why i quit my campaign a few turns in.

[Douchebag]

I think you should leave Byzantine alone. Their perfect right now - except their gay ass purple uniforms.

[Douchebag]

Im just waiting patiently for Raven to retexture, Byzantine units.