Help me please?!!!!! (Beasts of the middle east)

[Evolvedbullet]

Alright, I am Venice at the moment trying to fight off the Timurids. There elephants are supposabley to go amok when you fire a few mortar shells at them but when it comes down to doing that within the campaign; it is completely different. I have been pushed out of europe in the very begining of the game. Thankfully the crusades and having a settlement on Crete allowed me to survive but in a very different and very unfromilur setting. I know how to kill the Mongolians, in fact, I just killed the majority of there forces and now they are on the move but till recently, they have striked back. When I was trying to assemble my front line or big targeted cities for combat, the Mongolians stealth fully passed into my territory and captured Antion. I have no idea but they always go after that city first, they skip ever city they pass just to get to this city. I was to busy consintrating my financials to men who are designated to kill timurid elephants etc.

In fact, my financials suck at the moment. I used to be getting thousands a turn but with the enemy having very large navies and blocking my ports, it is almost near impossible to fund a defense. At the moment, I have a nice fleet within the Greek channel between turkey and Greece. My foothold on Turkey is alright but is threatened by the near enemy capital of Constantinople. I can not afford an attack on that city at the moment, I would like to join my previous lands but I think dealing with one problem at a time would best suit me. At the moment, I am failing to maintain momentum with my enemy. I have just got caught with my pants down and now I have no money to fund a defense and also my trade routes are open for blockade. The Timurids are now capturing cities, they captured Jerusalem and Alab (or some town north of the jesus city). Mongolians have taken Antlion (or something like that). I have alot of trade and that is what most of my money comes from. I get some sexy trade in the red sea with the primitive settlements there. Soon they can problely fund an army with that kind of trade but at the moment, that is supporting 2000 of the 49000 of my expenses. I need help, I will appreciate any kind of tactic against the Timrids that would be effective, cheap, and a life saver (like for example getting tons of cheap or armored spearmen in each middle-eastern town so your invincible against Mongolians horses). It is hard to get the elephants to go amok, it is somewhat easier on the custom battle then on campaign. The only solution in my mind at the moment is use the mercenary elephants I have to some how vs the elephants of the enemy. I am at turn 169 and I feel screwed. I seriously appreciate this. Thank you.

Have some nice pictures of my problem :
Pictures:
1 - http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=probsai6.jpg
2 - http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=prob2jb2.jpg
3 - http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=prob3qp7.jpg
4 - http://img149.imageshack.us/my.php?image=prob4eh8.jpg

[Angmar_nite]

spend it all on gunpowder crossbows and cheap militia. Stay inside you cities because fighting horse archer armies are expensive in the field. Ipgrade you walls and wait them out. Also try to get a crusade called on Antioch.

[Halie Satanus]

Moved to battle planning.

Welcome, when you have a little time check out the thread below for all things TWC.

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=59187

[Evolvedbullet]

So?

[parvus]

assassinate their leaders.

[Ippius]

assassinate their leaders.

never underestimate the use of assassins. They're effective and dangerous and act as mini-spies.

[dr_plaugexl]

you get better income thru trade and tradsmen.. use them like an army agresivly take over other traders. you make quite a bit of cash like this

[Evolvedbullet]

What do you mean?

you get better income thru trade and tradsmen.. use them like an army agresivly take over other traders. you make quite a bit of cash like this

[Zhou]

What do you mean?

He means to use your Merchants to "eat" other Merchants. You gain cash this way (a couple thousand florins per successful eating). Just be careful as your acquisition may backfire and the other merchant will eat yours.

[Sher Khan]

Be prepared to pull back out of Outremer and set up shop back on your island cities and castles. I recommend taking some land footholds back in Europe or possibly North Africa. You need a backbone, both financially and strategically, to prosecute a counter-attack against the Mongol-Timurid horde.

Next, do what others have said and bottle up in your cities and castles on the Levantine coast. As Venice, it'll be costly to fight horde stacks out in the open field (that's something for the Eastern-style nations like Russia, Hungary, the Turks, Egypt, and the Byzantines).

If you must fight in the open, you'll need a good retinue of cannons, arquebusiers, and Venetian Archers with flaming arrows. But to win that battle, you'll need an equal sized retinue of high morale spearmen/heavy infantry to both hold the line against Mongol-Timurid cavalry/infantry as a shield for your missile troops and also as a sponge to distract the elephants from your more vulnerable archers and cannonades. Your missile troops should focus all their firepower at the elephants to either kill them, rout them, or make them run amok. Your infantry are merely a distraction and sadly (and expensively) disposable.

As you can see, it'll get pretty harsh trying to fight in the open field, and if your economy is as bad as you say, it's a good idea to forget this plan.

I recommend you prioritize your goals. You don't have to fight the Timurids, remember. It's best to pack up and leave - go look for a new, profitable homeland before coming back to mop up. Just hole up in your towns and castles while you prepare and soften a new conquest elsewhere.

I recommend taking the Byzantine territories, especially Constantinople, Nicea, Thessalonica, and Corinth. These areas are free for conquest since they'll be outside of the Pope's spiritual protection. Settle down here, convert the population, and rebuild a respectable economy while fighting away Byzantine-Turkish-Hungarian stacks that may come to take advantage of your settling down phase.

[Jackster]

If you know you cant defend your territory, you might as well give it to them in exchange of cease fire then maybe form an alliance to them. There is no shame in retreat to fight another day.
Then like what Khan said, invade Constantinople and other rich provinces, then develope your ecom and build up an army regain your territories.
I was playing Turks on very hard level and despite my heroic efforts (5 heroic victories, 3 sieges), i could not stop the byzentines army from coming (there are just no end to the horde), so I took the last solution to be their vassal, just to kick their ass some 20 turns later and occupy Constantinople.

[CtrlAltDe1337]

Upgrade all your settlements to cannon towers and just defend.

[Jackster]

monster bombard knock down walls faster then i can eat salad, thats pretty much out of option.

[Ippius]

Doesn't a monster bombard destroy walls in 2 shots or something?

[parvus]

2-3 methinx.

[Gattamelata]

I've found it much easier to defend against the horde factions in the middle east than in, say, Eastern Europe. The middle eastern cities tend to grow to huge city size rather quickly, which enables the all-important cannon towers. With cannon towers and archers you can hold off even the massive Timurid multi-stack invasions.


If you prefer a head-on approach, then try to find your most cost-efficient units - the cheapest units with the greatest impact on the cavalry-heavy Mongols and Timurids. Then create large stacks of them and send them out to wage battles of attrition. Remember, it's not bad to lose battles as long as they cost the enemy more than they cost you. Put another way: if you can afford to produce 100 men per turn, and your enemy can only afford to produce 10 per turn, if you kill 11 of his men per turn and lose only 99 of your men per turn, you are beating him. The hordes start out with fantastic units that all have 3 silver chevrons. Once those are dead, they are much less menacing - the units they can produce from cities are still nice, but they don't have that massive experience bonus and they won't be producing those huge, well-balanced armies any more.

If you'd rather not fight the hordes head-on, then turtle. Fortify your cities with cannon towers and archers (not crossbowmen - archers can panic elephants who close within the minimum range of the cannon towers) and a cavalry unit or two to perform flanking, baiting and suicide charge maneuvers. Then send your field armies to expand your empire. I'd recommend finishing off the Turks and the Byzantines, in that order. If you really can't make progress against the Byzantines, then you could consider moving north through the Caucasus or west across Africa. If you plan to take Africa, then use a fleet to move your troops.

I have an observation to make: you haven't explored the map much, so you don't have a lot of situational awareness. It's very cheap and fast to create two or three spies to explore the map, and it pays off in spades. If you had done this earlier, you would know who holds Africa (if it's the Moors, then you have a good opportunity to expand there - if it's Spain, Portugal or Sicily, not as much) and what kind of expansion opportunities exist in Eastern Europe.