The Mormons: Whats the controversy?

[Icefrisco]

i dont know much about mormonism but theres a big controversy. why do people dislike them?

[wilpuri]

i dont know much about mormonism but theres a big controversy. why do people dislike them?

Because they go door-to-door looking like some kind of boy scouts, babbling about Jesus. And they built a church just a few kms from here and while it was under construction they forbade the construction workers from swearing and drinking. I wish I could've seen their faces!

Other than that, I think it has something to do with racism.

[Siblesz]

And they built a church just a few kms from here and while it was under construction they forbade the construction workers from swearing and drinking. I wish I could've seen their faces!

Haha! They make Al Qaeda look like pansies.

[therussian]

And polygamy. But yeah, Mormons are a really tough bunch. They scare me.

[Kscott]

Well they have rather hard line morals and believe that the Jews sailed over to America and became the Indians.

[Osceola]

... Because thier obvioudsly second only to Scientology in sheer idiocity.

Look up what it says in the Book of Mormon.. lmfao.. sad, sad, sad, pathetic bunch.

[Atheist Peace]

... Because thier obvioudsly second only to Scientology in sheer idiocity.

Look up what it says in the Book of Mormon.. lmfao.. sad, sad, sad, pathetic bunch.

This issue has been gone over many, many times, but some people seem incapable of learning, ever.

Their beliefs have just as much rational basis as those espoused by Christians, Jews, Muslims, pagans, Druids and Scientologists; therefore, all of those beliefs are equally "idiocitic" (I'm guessing you were trying to say "idiocy," not "idiocity," but one can't know), as you say.

You should be careful implying that Christianity comprises beliefs characterized by idiocy (or idiocity, for that matter); there are quite a few of those "idiocits" on here. :wink:

[LegionnaireX]

Their beliefs have just as much rational basis as those espoused by Christians, Jews, Muslims, pagans, Druids and Scientologists; therefore, all of those beliefs are equally "idiocitic" (I'm guessing you were trying to say "idiocy," not "idiocity," but one can't know), as you say.

Not really. Consider this, many of the events described in the bible have been revealed to have had at the very least a strong basis in reality. The same cannot be said for Mormonism.

[Gelgoog]

Not really. Consider this, many of the events described in the bible have been revealed to have had at the very least a strong basis in reality. The same cannot be said for Mormonism.

yup if the bible werent a religion text it would be put someone in the historical fiction area. the book of mormon would be put in the fantasy department.

[CiusFortius]

Wow, I find it amusing reading what it is that I do from other people. K, I am a Mormon, a lot of what has been stated here as fact is in fact not true, and a bunch more is out of context, some if it is true. I'm not going to do exhaustive answering on everything that has already been said but I will try explain some of the recurring themes that are a bit off or completely wrong. If you have specific questions please feel free to ask me and I will give you an answer.

Firstly, I am a relaxed Mormon. I know a lot of stuffy ones however. I think there are a lot of juvenile Mormons out there who for some reason think that they are the only ones going to heaven and that does a lot of harm to the churches reputation, I apologise for those guys, and will give them a head slap on behalf of you next time I see them

As with any organisation that gives out good principles, <sarcasm>surprisingly not everyone lives it!</sarcasm> PS I loved the joke about the 2 Mormons and the beer, I know exactly what you mean! Mormons are not perfect, a lot of them don't stick to what is preached, but that is true of every church I know of, so if you want to call us hypocrites be my guest, as its a big crowd with many non-Mormons in it! I guess maybe we just seem like bigger hypocrites because we have more rules like drinking, smoking, coffee, etc. to break.

First and foremost the name of the Church is: "The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints". We are Christian, and our church is centred around Jesus Christ. While we have a lot of respect for Joseph Smith he is a prophet, not the Saviour! His role was as a restorer and a prophet. We believe that he re-established Christ’s ancient church on the earth as it was lost with the deaths of the apostles. Hence we have a prophet today, and 12 apostles, just as the ancient church did.

Second, tithing cropped up a few times. The reason we pay tithing is because the Bible tells us to, yes, the bible, we believe in that by the by. In Malachi 3:10 it says:
"Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in my house; and prove me now herewith, saith the Lord of Hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing that there shall not be room enough to receive it.
"And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the fields, saith the Lord of Hosts."
A little earlier he talks of robbing God by not paying tithing. For me it is a commandment, to show faith. Everything comes from God and all he asks is 10% back. Seems like a good deal to me. On top of that I have tried living it and not living it and funnily enough my finances have always gone smoother when I am paying tithing, even though you would expect the opposite. So by trial and error I will stick with paying it and enjoy having the windows of heaven opened on me. I have observed the same in many peoples lives.

Something else is that Mormon clergy are not paid. Every other church I have been to, the priest asking for money seems a bit shady, as the money goes to him often. I don't like that. When my bishops have asked for money I know that he never gets a cent from the church. In actual fact he goes to work on Monday at his normal job and then still pays tithing himself! So personally I think that it is a good system as there are no mixed loyalties. The church will hire builders to build buildings, and accountants and administrators to run things but no minister is paid any salary for preaching. Even the senior leaders of our church are paid for administrative duties they perform, not the preaching. We also give huge, and I mean HUGE, donations when disasters strike around the world and send out materials and skilled people working through the red cross etc.

As to Polygamy, it was fine for Abraham, it was fine for Moses, it was fine for David, so many prophets practiced it when God commanded it, what’s the problem now? At the time it was happening the Mormons were mobbed out of every place they stayed in and there were a lot of single women, with no husbands to assist them in very very difficult circumstances. At that point the church leaders would select a worthy, generally upstanding man who could afford to support another wife (note you could not apply, you were selected!) and ask him to take on the single woman. Only if his current wife agreed was it allowed. The man also had to provide a separate house for the woman and her children. Most people also seem to picture a Harem of beauties when they hear polygamy, this was not the case. The single women who couldn't catch a man and were in need were typically very homely looking women, the pretty ones got husbands as you would expect.

On top of this we believe that it was not the leaders who decided on it, it was God. Joseph Smith was told to implement it and a later prophet was told when to discontinue it. Only about 3% of the church ever practiced it officially, and then only in circumstances where it was needed. Hope that clears some stuff up. And remember, claiming polygamy is wrong means that you effectively are damming many of the prophets who wrote the bible. Personally I only want one wife and I am glad that the difficulties of the past are gone negating the need for polygamy in the first place. I think monogamy works much better. People who do it now are going against what God instructed and are thus treated as adulterers, and generally excommunicated.

Generally I don't get why people are so anti-Mormon. We preach good principles, a bunch of us actually live them, and do good where we can. Where is the issue?

[Icefrisco]

Well they have rather hard line morals and believe that the Jews sailed over to America and became the Indians.

you didnt know that the jews sailed to america? i have had family here for
40,000 years. they followed the mamoths.

i heard that mormons believe that the book of mormon was written in america. thats obviously very true.

also the foudner legalized polygamy cause they did it in the bible. i dont agree with every single credible hisotrian that he was a crazed sex attic.

[Demonseed]

The true answer to this is more in depth then the first two answers. Before we go any farther, I am not a Mormon but have known a few over time. 90% of them today do not sanction polygamy any longer, they believe it outdated. They aren't a scary bunch, the ones I know anyway, they are just very rigid in their beliefs, but so are most Christians, Jews, and Muslims. Here is a link to a website that documents some of the bigger events that happened, and causes most of us to still hold a grudge even though most have no idea why they do. For more info, do research yourself on this matter and stop believeing the hype.

http://www.spiritwatch.org/mosechist.htm

And yes, this massacre did happen....they even ran a piece on it on the History Channel awhile back.

[Balikedes]

Mitt Romney is running for president now...he's a mormon. There's no way in hell he's going to win though.

[carl-the-conqueror]

seeing as thuough people dont like mormons in america, its because there not born again christians.

[Trey]

seeing as thuough people dont like mormons in america, its because there not born again christians.

It's not popular to be a Christian in America.

[Big War Bird]

Funny, it has been my experience that Mormons are consumate overachievers. In communities with a small Mormon contingent, ou find them excelling in politics, business and law. The mormon i''ve meet have generous and highly community minded.

[Sétanta]

A brief history of mormonism, by Mudd:

Once upon a time there was a man named Lehi. He lived in Jerusalem about 600 BC. Then, he suddenly decided to leave Jerusalem and so moved himself and his family to America, by route of Arabia. Somehow he and his family made it across these strange lands, that no Jew had ever been before and made it to the east coast of Asia. From there, they embarked on a ship and sailed to somewhere in the America's (about 2000 years before Columbus and 1000+ years before the Vikings). His family, once settled in America split into two groups, the Nephites and the Lamanites. They grew into mighty civilizations, constantly at war with one another until visited by Jesus Christ. Now, the Nephites and Lamanites were all good Jews, they built a sacred temple (even though the Bible forbids a temple anywhere but Jerusalem, and the Book of Mormon claims to uphold every single Hebrew law), and had Priests who were descended from Joseph (even though according to Jewish law, a priest can only be descended from Aaron. Again, the Book of Mormon claims to uphold every single Hebrew Law). During his time in America, Jesus Christ repeated much of the same doctrine and instruction given in the Gospels of the Bible and established a society that lasted for many years. Unfortunatly though, the Lamanites grew jealous of the Nephite power and so in a great battle exterminated them all. God turned their skin dark as a result, and are the ancestors of Native Americans.

Now, the Book of Mormon shares a startling number of similarities with the Bible. In fact, researchers have found hundreds of verses that are exactly the same as the KJV of the Bible. Names and locations are changed. The Book of Mormon (which takes place hundreds of years before Columbus) also tells of a land that was bountiful with cattle, horses and pigs, even though those three animals didn't exist in America until the Spanish invasions. It also says that great cities with huge walls existed. Where, you might ask? Nobody knows. It says they used chariots, and horses in battle, and iron tools and weapons. All this hundreds of years before those things were introduced. The Book of Mormon has had thousands of changes, since it was first written in the 1800's. Mostly punctuation, but some lines have been taken out, words altered and stuff added in. Also, since Mormons claim in the Book of Mormon that the Native Americans are the descendants of Israelites, something that every single scientists who has looked at this has disproven using genetics. Also, every non-mormon, and many mormon anthropologists agree that the civilizations existing in the BoM never existed in real life. In addition, the Hill of Cummorah, in New York, supposedly the place of many battle in which over a million people died has yielded zero archeological evidence of any battle ever taking place. We can find battle sites from 10000 years ago where all 100 combatants used rocks as weapons, but not a battle site from 1,400 years ago where millions of combatants used iron weapons. Pro-Mormon researchers, using concepts of logic popular with serial killers, have claimed that these things have been found. They have yet to show us the evidence.

Joseph Smith claimed to find Golden Plates, written in reformed Egyptian (a language that doesnt exist and never has). He then decoded these plates using God and some stones. Nobody but him has ever seen these plates. If these plates ever existed, which is unlikely, they don't anymore. If the Book of Mormon was supposedly written 1,400 years ago by people who didn't speak Greek, then why are words like Messiah and Bible used so frequently in the Book of Mormon. Again, nobody, not even the Mormons know.

Now thats just the factual stuff. If we get into theology they get even weirder. The only thing going for the Mormons is that their theology is less weird than the Scientologists, and that isn't saying much. At least the Scientologists were creative, the Mormons just ripped off Christians. Many Mormon leaders have claimed that God was once a man, and that any Mormon can become a God or Goddess in their own planet after death if they marry a Mormon and through good works live a good life in the Church. Cool, I always wanted to be a God, maybe I should be a Mormon you say. But wait, you are black. You can't be, God cursed the neutrals in the war between Heaven and Hell with black skin. Therefore, you aren't worthy. Modern mormon leaders try to get around this by evading questions whenever asked about this "Oh, race isn't important nowadays."

As for Polygamy, well there are two things about it. Joseph Smith, regarded as a sacred Prophet said that anybody who rejects polygamy is going to hell. Nowadays the Mormons excommunicate and forbid polygamists and polygamy. That means that either all Mormons are going to hell (which is extremely likely), or that Joseph Smith was a crack head (also extremely likely).

Therefor, you get to make up your own opinion. Do you support a religion that is rewriting history, hates (but pretends they don't) blacks and gays, and contradicts itself on a daily basis. Do you support a religion that is so clearly invented, the Jedi seem more realistic?

[SickBoy13]

Thank you Setanta/Mudd.
If the priests were descendants of Joeseph, wouldn't they break ancient Hebrew law by not being Levites?

[gregmattersen]

I find it really really funny that in this day and age, people are still prejudiced against a particular people and their beliefs (especially when they don't know squat about them, or have gotten their facts from their bible thumping preacher).

I lived in Utah for a while, and while I'm an agnostic myself, I do know that they DON'T practice polygamy at all. (in fact, Utah law enforcement actively hunts and brings to justice those that are breaking the law by doing so today, and the ones that do still have multiple wives belong to breakaway groups that really do act like cults.)

all the mormons I've met and been around have been nice people, very dedicated to their beliefs. Most of the criticism I've seen towards them closely mimics the anti-semitism that was rampant 100 years ago around the world: people are jealous or threatened by their success, consider their beliefs foreign, and thus think they're "wierd" or "a cult" or whatever.

my 2 centavos.

[Sétanta]

Thank you Setanta/Mudd.
If the priests were descendants of Joeseph, wouldn't they break ancient Hebrew law by not being Levites?

Exactly. This is just one example where the Mormons claim to uphold the Bible (New and Old Testament) and fail miserably.

I lived in Utah for a while, and while I'm an agnostic myself, I do know that they DON'T practice polygamy at all. (in fact, Utah law enforcement actively hunts and brings to justice those that are breaking the law by doing so today, and the ones that do still have multiple wives belong to breakaway groups that really do act like cults.)

That is the hypocrisy of the modern LDS. Joseph Smith said that all people who oppose polygamy are sinners and are going to hell. Thus, the LDS in the 1800's practiced polygamy and actively championed it. Now, the modern LDS opposes it with every fiber of their being, mostly for political reasons. That makes either Joseph Smith a false prophet for opposing the words of the modern day LDS 'profit' (thus making the whole religion void in the first place) or the modern day LDS religion is entirely sinning as a whole, and thus going to hell. Either way they are screwed.

I have many Mormon friends. I eat lunch with them every day. They frown at me when I swear, every day. They are good people. Yet they are still so incredibly wrong. It is only out of our friendship that I don't prove that to them.