North Korea's Nukes Are Kaput!

**Erich von Manstein** · February 13, 2007, 12:19 PM

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17117242/

I woke up this morning to find the above article headlining MSNBC.com. From the looks of it, North Korea has agreed to shut down its nuclear program (again) in exchange for another million tons of aid, much of it fuel oil. At first look this sounds like a major diplomatic breakthrough, especially after the nuclear test (albeit a fizzled one) that North Korea conducted last October. Of course, it didn't take me long to remember back to the '90s ('97, I believe, but don't quote me on that) when Bill Clinton sent Jimmy Carter over there and the ol' pig farmer returned making Chamberlain-esque statements about how North Korea's nuclear program was as kaput as Hitler's aspirations for Czechoslovakia were after the Munich Agreement.

And so I pose the following question to my esteemed fellow Mudpitters - how long will this latest "breakthrough" last? Do you think North Korea has any intention of following through? Does North Korea even have any credibility anymore?

It's a shame that we can't get any viewpoints from North Koreans on this, but the "loving fatherly leader" won't have it...

**JP226** · February 13, 2007, 12:28 PM

Til friday

**Caelius** · February 13, 2007, 12:29 PM

Who wants to take bets that N. Korea breaks the agreement?

I have extremely low faith this will hold to be frank.

**Mikelus Trento** · February 13, 2007, 12:46 PM

It was probably broken before it was agreed to.

**Guy** · February 13, 2007, 12:55 PM

Well North Korea is a pretty strange country. I really doubt though they are stopping their nuclear weapons seeing as they are the most secretive country in the world. Yet we can't do much about it as they threaten the us with the nuclear warheads. Have you looked up North Korea on Wikipedia! They are some scary dudes I am telling you. Being ruled by communist doesn't help I think.

(Have you every played the game Merenaries? If so you'd get my point.)

**cegorach** · February 13, 2007, 01:13 PM

AGAIN ?

It matters not, for the 1238th time they blackmail the world to sustain their genocidal regime.

North Koreans will see none of this - it will be used to keep the armyoperational (tanks and 2 million+ men from the army, secret police and various 'volunteer' organisations takes so much money...

Sadly it is hard to say what to do with them - the regime is almost immortal ( every official is virtually the Saviour himself - coems with the office actually) and not a single neighbour can find a way from this situation.

Probably only China has the means to hit them really hard, but 20 million brainwashed slaves are very hard to accomodate...

Sadly the more I learn about the regime and the state itself it looks like the vision of a communist 'paradise/hell' (it is both) really existing.

I have not a clue what should be done with it.

**RusskiSoldat** · February 13, 2007, 03:58 PM

Leave it alone.
No nation is willing to take on the burden of destroying and rebuilding North Korea, a heavy seeing as how they're economically backwards but fairly advanced militarily, and South Korea is the only nation which deserves that territory anyway.
When Kim dies, the next guy will be more liberal etcetera, etcetera until gradually there is an East Germany style unification.

**Lavastein** · February 13, 2007, 04:28 PM

they paid them off? AGAIN?!

god i would of said screw you and eat an assassins bullet.

**wilpuri** · February 13, 2007, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by RusskiSoldat

Leave it alone.
No nation is willing to take on the burden of destroying and rebuilding North Korea, a heavy seeing as how they're economically backwards but fairly advanced militarily, and South Korea is the only nation which deserves that territory anyway.
When Kim dies, the next guy will be more liberal etcetera, etcetera until gradually there is an East Germany style unification.

Let us hope, for the sake of the Koreans, that you are right.

EDIT: Yet, I cannot help but be attracted to the idea of military intervention. The people are far more 'docile' by nature than those of the Middle-East, and with South Korea running the show (setting up a new civilian administration), you'd expect ethnic/religious tensions to be fairly low. Either way, I'm hoping for a happy ending for this 50-year nightmare.

**Erich von Manstein** · February 13, 2007, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by RusskiSoldat

Leave it alone.
No nation is willing to take on the burden of destroying and rebuilding North Korea, a heavy seeing as how they're economically backwards but fairly advanced militarily, and South Korea is the only nation which deserves that territory anyway.
When Kim dies, the next guy will be more liberal etcetera, etcetera until gradually there is an East Germany style unification.

You mean Kim Jong Il is more liberal than his father Kim Sung Il? That's news to me. As far as I can tell, Kim Jr's just tightening the grip on the country that he inherited. Like Wilpuri, I hope you're right. But let's remember how many people are wasting away in that country in the meantime. You'd probably be singing a different tune if you were stuck in one of Kim's gulags, or if you were kidnapped from your home in South Korea because the short man thinks you're an attractive actress.

**PacSubCom** · February 13, 2007, 05:05 PM

They never had nukes. Nor will they have for a long time. Everybody can "fizzle".

**RusskiSoldat** · February 13, 2007, 05:28 PM

EDIT: Yet, I cannot help but be attracted to the idea of military intervention. The people are far more 'docile' by nature than those of the Middle-East, and with South Korea running the show (setting up a new civilian administration), you'd expect ethnic/religious tensions to be fairly low. Either way, I'm hoping for a happy ending for this 50-year nightmare.

South Korea, on the other hand, would have to accept the massive burden of North Korea, quite possibly at a very high cost in both men and money.

You mean Kim Jong Il is more liberal than his father Kim Sung Il? That's news to me.

Kim Jong Il succeeded Kim Il Sung only because of an oddity: DPRK was the only country where by 1991, the original idealistic revolutionary leader still led the country, hence preventing eastern style collapses.
The current Kim's successor cannot afford to be fully isolated or rely on heritage.

As far as I can tell, Kim Jr's just tightening the grip on the country that he inherited. Like Wilpuri, I hope you're right. But let's remember how many people are wasting away in that country in the meantime. You'd probably be singing a different tune if you were stuck in one of Kim's gulags, or if you were kidnapped from your home in South Korea because the short man thinks you're an attractive actress.

Well, no ****.
If I was in a Sudanese refugee camp, undoubtedly I'd be all for an international intervention in Sudan.
How it works in politics is, people try to look at things rationally rather than emotionally, when their lives are not directly at stake.

**Kretchfoop** · February 13, 2007, 07:39 PM

I'm sure it will be broken soon but I can't see a better alternative. Invasion is not realistic with the debacle in Iraq and just selective bombing of nuclear facilities could very well instigate a full scale war. Something Japan and South Korea cannot risk. Probably best to just keep the pressure on them to slow their programs and wait for that nut job to die.

**Your Lame Sister** · February 14, 2007, 11:13 AM

the saddest thing about this is that it all happened for nothing but politics. the split of korea at the end of WW2 created a total civil war from scratch, over nothing. it's a realy sad thing.
but i'm not korean, so **** it

**carl-the-conqueror** · February 14, 2007, 03:06 PM

i say if they can test a few nukes on there land, so should we, if you get my jist.

**NineinchNails2010** · February 14, 2007, 07:06 PM

I dont think military action is feasible. The people of America and or Britain just wouldnt stand for another war and no politician would risk it.
Also that nutjob in North Korea would probably throw everything hes got at whatever target if he thought he was threatend, and since no-one is a hundred percent sure what hes actually got at his disposal, that could be catastrophic.
Also, arn't the North Korean people raised to defend dear leader at all costs and believe that they've actually got it good compared to the rest of the world? If so I cant imagine welcoming US troops with open arms.

The only course of action I can think is to either attempt an assanation or a coo (very risky) or better yet, to really get China on your side and just get them to **** Kim Jong il (sp?) economically until they face a soviet style collapse.

P.s. Im no geopolitical expert so feel free to call B.S on that if necessary