Spys & Assassins

**gandy** · February 13, 2007, 06:58 AM

Having only picked up M2:TW at the weekend (although I played Rome TW) I am costantly finding new and increasingly fascinating ways to amuse myself.

The thing I thought about assassins in RTW was that they never really had a good enough chance of killing their targets, which in turn meant that I never bothered with them. Spys on the other hand were always relatively handy for infiltrating settlements and such like.

What I am finding in M2TW though, is that it is extremely easy to get the xp/skill level/traits (whatever you call it) on the increase.

I am playing medium difficulty (default) campaign game as England - FYI

To get the spys to become better at what they do, I basically make them do a mission EVERY TURN; even if it is something ridiculous (like a merchant or tiny rebel army or foreign princess) their traits get better and better all the time.

To get the assassins up to a good level where they can kill enemy family members and inquisitors, they too must attempt a mission AS OFTEN AS POSSIBLE; and just as with the spys it helps improve the chances the target being assassinated.

I'm aware that 99% of you probably already know this, I was just surprised with the ease that my assassin took out half of the most powerful people in the known world last night!

The Spanish besieged my settlement at Rennes and I had just brought 3 assassins over from London to try them out. I had enough troops to defend Rennes but sent an assassin to kill Spains Faction Heir who was leading the attack. It was a 25% chance of success and to my surprise he did it! I demolished what was left of the army.

Next I sent the same assassin to kill the French Faction Leader who was relatively unguarded in Paris; 33% chance and he did it!

From there I noticed I had an inquisitor skulking around the Antwerp region (it's only 81% Catholic), I checked the percentage and it was 50%. Sod it I thought and sent him to do my bidding.....he failed, but did not die.

The reason behind my writing this is just to find out what people think of the assassins and spys abilities? Do people use them lots or not very much?

My 7 (and counting.....) assassins are now wreaking havoc across the whole of Europe and Northern Africa; and my Faction Leader earned the title of Assassin King (or something like that).

Next on my list is the Pope

....I love it when a plan comes together!

(If there's already a thread on this...I apologise, and if it's in the wrong section...I apologise!)

**Violent Dave** · February 13, 2007, 09:39 AM

Spies are an awesome tool for everyone. I've never had any problems with them. A lot of times I'll pair a few up with invading armies so they can hop town to town opening gates and scouting ahead.

Assassins can be a real mixed bag. They take a lot of time and effort to train up, like you said you need to have them doing a mission every turn. A unit with a decent percentage is not always readily available to you and sometimes the best unit to attack is that of an ally which may not be worth it diplomatically if you fail.

Assassins can be highly effective however. Taking out enemy generals provides a nice advantage in battle. Sabatoge is near useless in my opinion, repairing any amount of damage to a building only takes 1 turn so you pretty much need 3-4 assassins paired up with a spy to destroy a building 100% but as you know that can just be repaired next turn. The upkeep on a team of units like that is extremely high as well so its not a plausibe economic attack seeming that its killing your economy as well.

Assassins are hit or miss, if you want to play that type of game then you're in for a real treat. However if you don't feel like baby sitting the guys they're a pain in the ass. This is especially prevelent later in the game when you have so much to manage and you forget about 1 or two only to find them standing in the mountains somewhere aged to about 60 years old after you spent 20 turns babysitting them to half effectiveness.

Its always a race against the clock. I wish there was some warning that your units still have moves left before you end your turn.

**Violent Dave** · February 13, 2007, 10:26 AM

Here's some tips for assassins:

Training assassins
Use rebel armys as training farms for assassins, don't wipe them out right away. When you spot a weak rebel army, send ALL your new assassins to that army. Then, every turn go to that spot and attack the captain. Some will die and have their skills bounce up and down (irritating) but you'll be able to train up some very good ones with no diplomatic backlash. Ride out the killing until they're consistantly getting success at 95% then have them move on.

Increasing kill %
You can boost the chance of killing a target by attacking a target from out of the targets line of sight. So, the farther you are away from your target when you attack the better chance you have. So, try to time your attacks where you can attack from the greatest distance in one turn. If you attack someone, and stop short of them, you better back up and take another swing unless your percentage is acceptable.

Regicide
Killing off a faction using straight assassination is extremely difficult. The very next turn, if they have a decent amount of territory, they will be offered adoption generals and they will always accept. Smaller factions you can do this with but you'll need quite a few highly trained assassins and you need to take them out in one fell swoop. This is excluding the mongols and the Turmids because they have no regions when they first invade therefore they will be offered no adoptions so you can kill off those invasions with 2-4 highly trained assassins.

Buddy up
Partner your assassins with spies to help find the best targets and help with the assassins poor line of sight. This will help you tremendously with the two aforementions strategies. This will also help you kill targets housed in settlements.

Take control of the papacy with assassins
The best way to win an election is to be the only one running. The college of cardnials provides a detailed hitlist for you including their locations. If you pull up the college of cardnials menu you can double click on the image of the enemy cardnial and it will zip you to their location on the map and highlight where they're standing at that turn. Which, you can move your spy over and kill him. A few things to remember though: another one will be elected in his place each and every time but standards for piety will drop as quailified folks become scarce. You need to build your own preists to fill those holes your making. Piety won't matter so much when you're the only guy to fill the role. And last but not least, killing a zillion of gods diciples doesn't cure excommunication, you need to kill the guy at the top.

Remember you're on a time table
You're assassins are like all the characters in the game. They get old and die eventually. An assassin with 4 skill and 65 years old is useless. Once you have a highly trained spy you need to keep using him as much as possible to get the best use out of the investment in time. If your Mr. Micromanage you can pull up the agent scroll and find them all one by one but you're game will go by very slow. Never forget to check your assassins age. Sometimes you need to kill a guy halfway across the world and if your assassin is to old you'll get better use from killing in the area he's already in and training a new assassin.

Watch your upkeep
Assassins are very expensive in terms of upkeep (550 a turn I think). If you want a huge network of assassins you better have the funds to maintain them. They won't sieze any territory for you or bring you in profits so their a financial liablity. They're only an asset if they work in tandem with an invading army. I've tanked my economy with assassins without even realizing it before.

I hope this helps everyone. I had major problems finding tips on these guys and for a long time I thought they were completely useless until I employed these tactics.

**Kesxex** · February 13, 2007, 01:09 PM

Well, if you use assassins your king will soon enough get a nice add on to his retinue - Assassin's master.
This allows your king to buy all agents (merchants, assassins and spies for sure, priests and diplomats I think too) for down to half price. This in return is a real money saver.

**gandy** · February 15, 2007, 06:05 AM

Thanks for the tips Violent Dave, and everyone else.

I am starting to realise the assassins are pretty hit and miss really. The first few I got seemed to be able to kill when the percentage was around 10% (+/-), but now they're trained up a bit more and the percentages are 40% (+/-) they always fail and are losing their skill.

Nice idea also training them up on rebel armies. I have actually been using enemy armies which don't have a general or family member and the percentage is around 33%.

I often search around with my spies and then send the assassins (who are never far behind them) to kill enemy family members who are completely un-guarded (notably the spanish and portugese; they seem to be overly relaxed regarding personal security).

I kind of wish that you could upgrade them if you know what I mean, like all the other units (bar spies, diplomats, merchants etc).....give them better weapons and stuff. I'd have an army of assassins.

About the pope and papal states etc....I assassinated the pope and bribed all the other nations to vote me in, and they did. But now....MY ENGLISH pope has ex-communicated me from the Church! He resides in my capital for christ sake! Can I kill him? I don't suppose I can. It's bloody annoying though. He technically ex-communicated himself....if I'd known that culd happen I wouldn't have bribed the other countries for all that precious dollar. Why didn't he just ex-communicate France and stand by his home nation??? The bastard.

Thanks again for the tips guys.

**Silent Assassin** · February 15, 2007, 06:37 AM

Nice tips Violent Dave

**Gurbebio** · February 15, 2007, 07:18 AM

Originally Posted by gandy

I kind of wish that you could upgrade them if you know what I mean, like all the other units (bar spies, diplomats, merchants etc).....give them better weapons and stuff. I'd have an army of assassins.

About the pope and papal states etc....I assassinated the pope and bribed all the other nations to vote me in, and they did. But now....MY ENGLISH pope has ex-communicated me from the Church! He resides in my capital for christ sake! Can I kill him? I don't suppose I can. It's bloody annoying though. He technically ex-communicated himself....if I'd known that culd happen I wouldn't have bribed the other countries for all that precious dollar. Why didn't he just ex-communicate France and stand by his home nation??? The bastard.

Assassins can get retuine of course, like a young apprentice (skill +1) or a female sidekick (+2, forgot the proper name), but you probably knew that already. Dunno if it's true but I think they have more chance of getting retuine when they are in your city.

About the pope. You can kill him, the pope resides in Rome of course. And it's no longer one of your own priests. That'll teach the backstabbing traitor

By the way, most of the time's it's not necessary to bribe the other voters. You can pretty much make out how everyone is going to vote based on the aliances (check your diplomacy-screen before voting). Nations which are allied to preferati will vote for that one. Nations not allied to one of the preferati will most likely go for the preferati with the most 'decided votes'. Since your rep. suffers if you didn't vote for the elected pope, they tend to bet on the winning team. At least in my experience. (nothing to do realy with spys & assassins, sorry)

**Violent Dave** · February 16, 2007, 09:40 AM

When I say use rebel armies its mainly for 2 reasons.
1.) No diplomatic reprocussions and
2.) They don't move! This way you never forget where your assassins are.

**parvus** · February 16, 2007, 06:56 PM

v nice stuff Violent Dave. spies r too easy to train though

**Ippius** · February 16, 2007, 08:22 PM

Once a spy infiltrates his first settlement he virtually can spy on any city with a 100% chance of success which is stupid. Mind you seeing how dumb gate guards can be in one of the vids (bush...in open day...entering a city? Subtle) is probably why they infiltrate very easily.

**AdmiringtheEnemyeh?** · February 18, 2007, 09:42 AM

It could happen, bushes are smarter than you think.

**I love El Cid** · February 19, 2007, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by AdmiringtheEnemyeh?

It could happen, bushes are smarter than you think.

Not in America

**Ippius** · February 19, 2007, 11:26 PM

Originally Posted by I love El Cid

Not in America

Oh the wit.

But seriously the guy at the gate must be on drugs or something.

**Serious Spamurai** · February 20, 2007, 04:26 PM

Assasins can be extremely OPed, one of mine killed 10 members of the byzantine royal family, this includes 4 Emperors. He died of old age, he was already 35 (recruited him and forgot he existed) before he started his reign of terror, got to full Sub in about 4 assasinations.

*Sarcasm* Truly a worthwhile first post, you're joke about America was most humourous *Sarcasm*

**UhOhIt'sAnArrow** · March 09, 2007, 07:48 PM

Assains are my second favorite part of the game now that they actually stand a chance to kill something. I'll train up to like 20 assasins and go around killing things. Always accompany with a spy, it makes the percentage go up to like a max of 5% depending on the scenario. I appreciate that tip of attacking from far away, I had never noticed that. But assassins are just plain fun, no way about it. I've wiped out Portugal, Spain, Scotland, and even the Papacy with assasins lol.