Seleucids

**tone** · February 08, 2007, 09:23 AM

Info about seleucids to be posted here:

Units we've received from King Louise (Ancient Wars) and have permission to use :

Seleucid cataphract:

Chariot:

Interesting, looking at a number of images on the internet I've seen Greek units using pikes from elephants. Is this historical? Should we consider having these?

**cherryfunk** · February 08, 2007, 09:46 AM

That chariot looks amazing...

And a pike/elephant unit would be fantastic, has anyone done it? Is it even possible (I mean, would the pikemen jab their pikes down at footmen on the ground?)

**tone** · February 08, 2007, 09:50 AM

You see why I was keen to get them!

It'll be interesting to try the pike on elephants - I'll have a play around and report unless DVK wants a go!

**cherryfunk** · February 08, 2007, 08:17 PM

Here's some historical support the the pikeman-on-elephants unit, from 'Rome On the Euphrates':

"...elephants would open battles, 'putting forth their strength and meeting forehead to forehead', interlocking their trunks while the pikemen struck from the towers, till one beast or the other turned hs flank and was gored by his enemy's tusks."

**cherryfunk** · February 08, 2007, 08:31 PM

Here's another quote from 'Rome on the Euphrates,' about the look and composition of the Seleucid armies:

The Seleucid armies were the veterans and descendants of Alexander's forces that had remained, after 323 B.C., under his general Seleucus Nicator in Asia. In the first generation and again under Antiochus the Third, they had garrisoned the world from Antioch to Bactria, and made the traditions of their Macedonian home magnificent while keeping them basically unaltered. Their officers dyed the broad-brimmed hat crimson, and embroidered their cloaks and buskins with crimson and gold. The guardsmen's boots were studded with gold nails and the cavalry's bits were gold; the shields bronze or silver, or decorated with bronze or silver crescents. Writers of that age confirm over and over again this military glow of the Macedonians, gleaming in the pride of life with gilt armor and scarlet cloaks; 'glittering in the sun as they marched down in their order, the elephants with their castles, and the men in their purple, as their manner was when they were going to give battle....'

'As these were taking their places they were followed from the camp by the phalanx called the Brazen Shields, so that the whole plain seemed alive with the flashing of steel and the glittering of brass.'

On the wings of these armies were the cavalry, the mountaineers 'girt for running,' Cretans, Carians, Cilicians; the archers, the javelin men from Thrace with black tunics; slingers, naked Gauls from Galatia with wild hair and huge shields.

The elephants stood like towers near the front or between the sections into which the phalanx was divided; Indian for the Seleucids, African (and inferior) for the Ptolemies, their mahouts strewed red juice to break them to the sight of blood, and dressed them with red housing for a battle, and they carried four men in a turret on their backs.

[There's a bit about the elephants here, how they often proved a disapointment.]

Even less decisive on the hellenistic battlefield were the scythed chariots put out of commission at Magnesia by the king of Pergamum's order to shoot the horses. Cataphracts or heavy-armed cavalry were as yet scarecely noticeable, but important later; Arabs, too, were there on camels, with long swords. But the heart of Seleucid warfare was the phalanx at the center, like a hedgehog, or sectioned like a series of hedgehogs, sixteen or sometimes thirty-two deep, Greek or Macedonian in origin, immensely trained, immensely brave, immensely proud of its tradition, and doomed.

**tone** · February 09, 2007, 09:00 PM

Had a go with elephants and pikes / spears - seemed to CTD on me each time - maybe I did something wrong?

**dvk901** · February 09, 2007, 10:51 PM

Originally Posted by tone

Had a go with elephants and pikes / spears - seemed to CTD on me each time - maybe I did something wrong?

Post the code for the units and DMB and let me have a look at it...or send the files. EDU and DMB. A ctd where? In battle, or before it even gets there. If it's during loading, that's almost always a missing texture and should tell you. If it's during the battle, it's probably during an animation switch..or just a bad one.

One thing I've had to do sometimes with pesky units is comment out all the .cas file lines in DMB for that unit except the one that says , max at the end. This prevents any skeleton switching, and if it works, will tell you that's the problem. Like this, for example:

type roman_early_centurion
skeleton fs_dagger
indiv_range 40
texture romans_brutii, data/models_unit/textures/ferres/officer_roman_early_centurion_julii.tga
;model_flexi_m data/models_unit/Early_Centurion.cas, 15
;model_flexi_m data/models_unit/Early_Centurion.cas, 30
;model_flexi_m data/models_unit/Early_Centurion.cas, 40
model_flexi data/models_unit/Early_Centurion.cas, max
model_sprite romans_brutii, 60.0, data/sprites/romans_julii_roman_triarii_sprite.spr
model_tri 400, 0.5f, 0.5f, 0.5

By removing the top three, you prevent the skeleton animation from switching as you zoom in and out. It works fine almost always, it's just more 'graphically intense'.

If THAT doesn't work...hmmm, wrong skeleton? Do you get any errors? If not, then I say it's the switching.

**tone** · February 11, 2007, 05:04 AM

Charioteers in game - don't yet have the texture file for the chariot from KLA. Had to desaturate the crew somewhat and need to check we've got an approriate animation - these guys are supposed to be overhand chariot spearmen, I think - although looking at the picture it looks like theey could work underhand too. Hmmmm is there an animation for either of those?

If we can't get to use KLA's texture, any idea where to find the texture folder for the chariot, DVK?

**cherryfunk** · February 12, 2007, 08:18 PM

Any luck with the elephant/pikemen unit? I would LOVE to see that in the game, far as I know this would be the first mod to have them, or has someone already done it?

**tone** · February 13, 2007, 02:47 AM

The problem there is the lack of a suitable skeleton, even in the EB pack by the looks of things. Unless we can get someone to do one for us, I'm afraid we're out of luck.....now if I had a few weeks just to devote to this, I'm sure it could be worked out, but unfortunately I don't.