Russian Orphanges

**Balikedes** · February 07, 2007, 04:01 PM

A question to our Russian friends:

I have seen a few articles recently, criticizing the Russian orphanage system for it's alledged abuse or non-care of babies in it's care. Is this getting much publicity in Russia? And if so, how does the Russian media portray it?
Thank You in advance for your response

**Erik** · February 07, 2007, 05:21 PM

I've seen a documentary about that not so long ago.
A group clowns visited the orphanage homes with a hidden camera, exposing the terrible living conditions.
Maybe you saw the same documentary?

I like to know what Russians think/know about this too.

**RusskiSoldat** · February 07, 2007, 08:49 PM

Orphanages and nursing homes in Russia are in abominable conditions.
They were pretty bad off even in the Soviet era, and recently have done far, far worse.

**LeChat** · February 08, 2007, 03:32 AM

2 Balikedes

I have seen a few articles recently, criticizing the Russian orphanage system for it's alledged abuse or non-care of babies in it's care. Is this getting much publicity in Russia? And if so, how does the Russian media portray it?

In USSR the orphanage system worked very well. Government gave to orphanages homes after 18 years. They had abilities to enter universities etc. E.g. the wealthiest of Russian oligarchs Abramovich who stole about 20 billion dollars was an orphanage in the furthest region of Russia. My grandfather was an orphanage in Ukraine in 1920-1930-th and got good education and job by government money.
Now the situation is changed drastically. Peoples don’t have room to live, because flats are very expensive. E.g. an old 3 rooms flat in Moscow costs about 400 000 dollars (4500$ per a meter) while average salary in Moscow is about 1200 dollars per month. By the law you can take an orphanage only if you have the sufficient room to live (I don’t remember – it is about 18 square meters per a member of family). So most of Russian families can’t take an orphanage even when they want. Government also spends very few money to peoples who took an orphanage – about 150 dollars per month.
The problem of orphanage is discussed a lot – from local newspaper to the main channels. There are a lot of families who want to take an orphanage. But the real problem is that they can’t have a big room so they have no rights to take an orphanage.

**~~Cassy~~** · February 08, 2007, 03:49 AM

Originally Posted by LeChat

2 Balikedes

In USSR the orphanage system worked very well. Government gave to orphanages homes after 18 years. They had abilities to enter universities etc. E.g. the wealthiest of Russian oligarchs Abramovich who stole about 20 billion dollars was an orphanage in the furthest region of Russia. My grandfather was an orphanage in Ukraine in 1920-1930-th and got good education and job by government money.
Now the situation is changed drastically. Peoples don’t have room to live, because flats are very expensive. E.g. an old 3 rooms flat in Moscow costs about 400 000 dollars (4500$ per a meter) while average salary in Moscow is about 1200 dollars per month. By the law you can take an orphanage only if you have the sufficient room to live (I don’t remember – it is about 18 square meters per a member of family). So most of Russian families can’t take an orphanage even when they want. Government also spends very few money to peoples who took an orphanage – about 150 dollars per month.
The problem of orphanage is discussed a lot – from local newspaper to the main channels. There are a lot of families who want to take an orphanage. But the real problem is that they can’t have a big room so they have no rights to take an orphanage.

The idea that Roman Abramovich stole 20 billion dollars sounds extremely unlikely to me. Not only is his fortune less than that and he was never in an orphanage. He has also invested hundreds of millions of pounds, directly from his own pocket, into Chukotka. There are dodgy things about him, no doubt, but stole $20 billion? Rubbish.

**LeChat** · February 08, 2007, 04:04 AM

Cassandra123
When you stole 20 bln dollars you can spend very small part of them to philanthropy.

**~~Cassy~~** · February 08, 2007, 04:06 AM

Originally Posted by LeChat

Cassandra123
When you stole 20 bln dollars you can spend very small part of them to philanthropy.

Show many any sort of evidence that he did.

**Pavlik the Rus** · February 08, 2007, 04:10 AM

2Cassandra123
Good position.

There was one owner in SU, state. Oligarchs takes allmost all, gives nothing.
How will call you this?

**~~Cassy~~** · February 08, 2007, 04:15 AM

Originally Posted by Pavlik the Rus

2Cassandra123
Good position.

There was one owner in SU, state. Oligarchs takes allmost all, gives nothing.
How will call you this?

I don't want to be rude, but I don't understand what you just typed.

**Pavlik the Rus** · February 08, 2007, 04:35 AM

I mean that all, what now belongs to oligarhs, not time ago belongs to the state. They takes all of this allmost free... State gets nothing from this.

**~~Cassy~~** · February 08, 2007, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by Pavlik the Rus

I mean that all, what now belongs to oligarhs, not time ago belongs to the state. They takes all of this allmost free... State gets nothing from this.

Doesn't sound like stealing to me, just seems to be the transition from state to private owned industry.

**Balikedes** · February 08, 2007, 10:45 AM

Pavlik the Rus, RusskiSoldat and LeChat,
I appreciate your responses.
I'm glad the Russian media is covering these kinds of stories. It's troubling for me to see the coverage, particularly the recent video taken of babies with tape over their mouths to muffle their cries. What a difficult situation...

Erik - I haven't seen any documentaries concerning this subject. The Russian government could make adoption through a foreign country easier and ease the pressure on the Russian Hospital/Orphanage system.

**RusskiSoldat** · February 08, 2007, 05:58 PM

Doesn't sound like stealing to me, just seems to be the transition from state to private owned industry.

No, it means using shady business tactics to encompass ginormous fortunes by cheating people off their shares in a time of crisis.
If that's fair, then his fortune is gotten fairly.

Erik - I haven't seen any documentaries concerning this subject. The Russian government could make adoption through a foreign country easier and ease the pressure on the Russian Hospital/Orphanage system.

Every time I go to Russia there are a dozen Americans with an adopted child on the plane back.
I can't see it being much easier to adopt, and the government can't encourage it as it would show the failure of government policy in regards to orphanages.
Btw Lechat: orphanage is the building, orphan is the child (priyut and sirota, respectively).

**LoZz** · February 08, 2007, 06:23 PM

i saw a documentary on the the russian orphanages a little while ago, its werid! the kids spent the whole day in just a vest and a pair of underpants, when it was like -20C outside, they got up, did some exercise (forced) this was like jogging etc, all they got to eat seemed to be porrage. and that was it, they spent the rest of the day doing whatever they want with a few basic lessons in reading and writeing.

it looked a bit of a dirty place with low hygene standards but it was 10x better then living on the streets

**LeChat** · February 09, 2007, 12:30 AM

2 Cassandra123

Show many any sort of evidence that he did.

It is offtopic. However if it is interesting for you there was a criminal schema called "the deposit auсtion". The idea was: A gangster bribes an official. So the official asks him to lend some money to government (e.g. 1000$ for 1 month). They signed an agreement that the state leaves a deposit e.g. oil company that costs 1 bln dollars. If government did not return loan (1000$) then the company of this gangster became an owner of this deposit that costs 1 bln dollars. Sure the bribed authority forgot to return the money so the gangster became the owner of oil company for very low price.
The peak of this criminal schema was in the end of 1995 year.

**~~Cassy~~** · February 09, 2007, 03:59 AM

Originally Posted by LeChat

2 Cassandra123

It is offtopic. However if it is interesting for you there was a criminal schema called "the deposit auсtion". The idea was: A gangster bribes an official. So the official asks him to lend some money to government (e.g. 1000$ for 1 month). They signed an agreement that the state leaves a deposit e.g. oil company that costs 1 bln dollars. If government did not return loan (1000$) then the company of this gangster became an owner of this deposit that costs 1 bln dollars. Sure the bribed authority forgot to return the money so the gangster became the owner of oil company for very low price.
The peak of this criminal schema was in the end of 1995 year.

Sounds like a perfectly normal loan with collatoral to me.

**Big War Bird** · February 09, 2007, 06:40 AM

My wife and I have talked about a adopting a child from overseas. How hard is for an American to adopt a child in Russia?

**LoZz** · February 09, 2007, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by Big War Bird

My wife and I have talked about a adopting a child from overseas. How hard is for an American to adopt a child in Russia?

its easy.

the hard thing is getting the child INTO the usa.

getting usa citizenship is hard, and getting the child threw immigration is going to be difficult.

however actualy adopting a child from russia is easy, getting it home isnt.

this was on the uk telly, the russians are all to keen to let overseas couples adopt their kids they have huge overcrowding in most places so anyone who wants to adopt can, their almost giving them away, they hardly do any backround checks part from a criminal record check and then again, unless it says your a child rapest almost anyone can have one, its just getting them uk citizenship was the only long and hard process, took months befor they could bring their kid home

**Balikedes** · February 09, 2007, 12:38 PM

Originally Posted by Big War Bird

My wife and I have talked about a adopting a child from overseas. How hard is for an American to adopt a child in Russia?

Big War Bird - It is an extremely noble thing to do...I wish you luck. A good example of human generosity. My heart breaks when I think of those babies who just want someone to smile with them.

**LeChat** · February 10, 2007, 01:55 AM

2 Balikedes

Pavlik the Rus, RusskiSoldat and LeChat,
I appreciate your responses.
I'm glad the Russian media is covering these kinds of stories. It's troubling for me to see the coverage, particularly the recent video taken of babies with tape over their mouths to muffle their cries. What a difficult situation...

From the January 1 2007 the new law started working. By this law:
1. Every orphanage without guardian receives 10 000$ when he reaches 18 years old.
2. If anybody takes an orphanage (became a guardian of an orphanage) he will get 10 000$. These moneys can be used only for education or house of the orphanage.
3. Every orphanage < 18 years old who entered colledge receives these 10 000$.

This is this law in russian: http://www.bizspravka.ru/view_article.php?id=191677
These money will be increased according to inflation. This is one of "national projects" launched by Putin a year ago.